Recital Programming help needed! (inquire within.)

[dnephi]

Essentially, I have a lot of a program down, but I need a larger romantic piece before the final two Chopin Etudes to finish.  A lot of things in the air

Bach-Liszt: Am P&F

Haydn: Sonata (One of six, I'm still choosing.  Possibly the F Major or the c# minor)

--Intermission--

Schumann: (Either a set of 2 or 3 Fantasiestucke (Op. 12) or one of Schumann's Op. 21 Noveletten.)

Debussy: A Prelude (Or, if you can recommend me a good, fairly short 20th century piece which is a bit abstract, I'd love it!  Don't be too hard, I don't want to do a program of all big things)

Larger Romantic Work.  My teacher suggested any Chopin ballade but the 4th (duh  ), one of the scherzos (the 1st being the only one I really like), and suggested that I stay away from Liszt, which I could do later, after this recital.  She said that the 1st ballade is her favorite besides the fourth and that I shouldn't worry about what's overplayed or not overplayed.  I should play what I like. 
What would you recommend? 

A couple of Chopin Etudes (Avoiding all etudes with lots of double-notes and awkward fingerings (IE, NOT 10-2, 25-6).  Suggestions?  I would particularly like to do 25-12 and one other.  Which one might best prepare one's technique for Liszt etudes, which I'd like to move on to after this recital?  (PS, tell whoever I made the WJ duel with to cancel.  I won't do it.)

This recital is where I will officially draw the end of my childhood.  It will be after I graduate from College, the end of my time to live in the midwest, the climax of my childhood musical pursuits, and be right before I leave on a mission for my church.
Therefore, my encore will be a piece which I heard often in my childhood and which brings back many memories and a fit of nostalgia: Schumann's Kinderszenen #1- Von Fremden und Landern.

Thoughts, suggestions, and comments, please.

Thanks.

[quantum]

Have you heard Medtner before?  Try listening to some of the Sonatas or Fairy Tales.  They would be good for your large romantic piece. 


The last set of Scriabin preludes is very abstract.  Op. 74 I think.  They are quite short so you could easily play all of them.

[Kassaa]

True, maybe Medtner Sonata-Skazka Op. 25/1? It's not too long, it's beautiful and effective .

[furtwaengler]

Debussy: A Prelude (Or, if you can recommend me a good, fairly short 20th century piece which is a bit abstract, I'd love it!  Don't be too hard, I don't want to do a program of all big things)

How about Bartok's last etude, the op. 18 no. 3? Short, abstract, effective...and though difficult, it won't kill you like op. 18 no. 1 kills me (small hands ). How 'bout it? 

(But really, you'd definitely not be at a loss with a good Debussy prelude ).

Larger Romantic Work.  My teacher suggested any Chopin ballade but the 4th (duh  ), one of the scherzos (the 1st being the only one I really like), and suggested that I stay away from Liszt, which I could do later, after this recital.  She said that the 1st ballade is her favorite besides the fourth and that I shouldn't worry about what's overplayed or not overplayed.  I should play what I like. 
What would you recommend? 

Why no 4th ballade, oh teacher? And on Chopin's Scherzi, the 1st is actually the only one I don't really like - but that's pointless to the inquiry.

So, you've got the Bach-Liszt/Haydn first half, and Schumann (any you choose will be delightful!) and Chopin Etudes nearly set in the second half...how about going away from Chopin, and into something less overtly romantic, like Busoni's 1st Sonatina? That it's rarely played could be a bonus, even if something oft played is not a concern. It adds variety to the program, and offers a nice compliment to your opening Bach-Liszt P&F...Plus, it's a unique sound-world not often experienced, but sure to intrigue.

A Medtner is also a nice suggestion. The Sonata reminiscenza, Op. 38 No. 1 which Gilels often played is the one with which I'm most familiar. Medtner would make the Noveletten happy.

A couple of Chopin Etudes (Avoiding all etudes with lots of double-notes and awkward fingerings (IE, NOT 10-2, 25-6).  Suggestions?  I would particularly like to do 25-12 and one other.  Which one might best prepare one's technique for Liszt etudes, which I'd like to move on to after this recital?

I know, not Op. 10-2 for good reason, but pertaining to the Liszt etudes, Feux Follets is the most intimidating and I'd think 10-2 is the best to prepare. But yes, 25-12 is a great choice and will help prepare you if this preparation is possible. I love 25-11 going into 25-12...such a dark progression...like the Scherzo of Mahler's 6th Symphony arriving at the Finale, Boom! what a world (chills). Another chilling possibility I like is the E-flat minor Op. 10-6 proceeding 25-12, in which case you might add third etude to start the set, like 10-5 or 25-1. Really just find what you like!

Happy choosing, and good luck to your career! 

Dave

[dnephi]

Thanks everyone.  I have some responses and then a further tentative program. 

Have you heard Medtner before?  Try listening to some of the Sonatas or Fairy Tales.  They would be good for your large romantic piece. 



The last set of Scriabin preludes is very abstract.  Op. 74 I think.  They are quite short so you could easily play all of them.

I've heard Medtner, and his music is interesting and deserves playing, but I, myself, am not too fond of the music.  It has grown on me, but not enough.  It feels a bit circuitous and not quite directional. 
The Scriabin is interesting music, but I don't too much like the Op. 74 set.  Thanks for the suggestions.

True, maybe Medtner Sonata-Skazka Op. 25/1? It's not too long, it's beautiful and effective .

Once again, interesting, but not quite my style of biscuits.  I like it, surely, but not enough.
Cheers!

(For this last one, I'll put my comments within, bolded and italicized so as to differentiate it.  Thanks for understanding )

How about Bartok's last etude, the op. 18 no. 3? Short, abstract, effective...and though difficult, it won't kill you like op. 18 no. 1 kills me (small hands ). How 'bout it? 

(But really, you'd definitely not be at a loss with a good Debussy prelude ).
I like the Op. 18 set, particularly the third.  The first is pretty much impossible in my opinion, as I can only stretch an 11th/play a white-white 10th.  Lots of ... "grr" at Bartok's dissonant best.    I can suggest it.  I've read that Bartok's etudes are considered tremendous by many great pianists.

If not, though, I'll just choose a prelude I like.

Why no 4th ballade, oh teacher? And on Chopin's Scherzi, the 1st is actually the only one I don't really like - but that's pointless to the inquiry.

What do you know about the Bartok Rhapsody, Op. 1?  I've not heard it, but I've heard a great deal about it, such that it was later rewritten for piano and orchestra by Bartok himself.   How long is it?

The fourth ballade would be difficult to the point of preclusion, I think.  Great piece, certainly, without a single doubt.  In case it was assumed otherwise, I'm a physics/Pre-Med Major, so I am not a music major with a lot of stuff on my plate, so I want to choose things that will fit.  I actually think that the 1st ballade will be my choice.  If I work hard, I could do it well, my teacher suggested it, she knows more about my limitations than I do, and it should be really good work for my chord execution/wrist technique.

So, you've got the Bach-Liszt/Haydn first half, and Schumann (any you choose will be delightful!) and Chopin Etudes nearly set in the second half...how about going away from Chopin, and into something less overtly romantic, like Busoni's 1st Sonatina? That it's rarely played could be a bonus, even if something oft played is not a concern. It adds variety to the program, and offers a nice compliment to your opening Bach-Liszt P&F...Plus, it's a unique sound-world not often experienced, but sure to intrigue.

A Medtner is also a nice suggestion. The Sonata reminiscenza, Op. 38 No. 1 which Gilels often played is the one with which I'm most familiar. Medtner would make the Noveletten happy.

I know, not Op. 10-2 for good reason, but pertaining to the Liszt etudes, Feux Follets is the most intimidating and I'd think 10-2 is the best to prepare. But yes, 25-12 is a great choice and will help prepare you if this preparation is possible. I love 25-11 going into 25-12...such a dark progression...like the Scherzo of Mahler's 6th Symphony arriving at the Finale, Boom! what a world (chills). Another chilling possibility I like is the E-flat minor Op. 10-6 proceeding 25-12, in which case you might add third etude to start the set, like 10-5 or 25-1. Really just find what you like!
Feux Follets is a splendidly charming (and ingenious) piece which is enormously difficult and not on my to-do list. 

With the Ballade and 25-12, do you think that it would be necessary to study another etude for chord/wrist technique like 25-9?   If not, then I'm thinking of 10-4/25-1/25-12 (A good, Major third key change, which is a very powerful transition.) 

Might 25-11 be better for my technique than 10-4?  10-4 does work both hands, though.  [/i]


Happy choosing, and good luck to your career! 

Dave

Thanks a lot!  You've helped my concentrate my thoughts.

Now the tentative program stands as:

Bach-Liszt ... Prelude and Fugue in A minor ... BWV 543 ... 9 Minutes

Haydn ... Sonata (F Major or c#) ...

(Set of Schumann - what order?  and perhaps a suggestion of what to go with the two Op. 12 pieces besides the Romanze?)
Schumann ... Romanze in F#
                 ... Aufschwung (f)... Op. 12 No. 2 ... 3 Minutes
                 ... Warum ... Op. 12 No. ? ... ??

Debussy  ...  Prelude (Perhaps Le Cathedrale Engloutie? I love the feeling of crushing antiquity.) ... Bk. 1

--- Intermission---  (tentative placement)

Chopin ... Ballade in g ... Op. 23 ... 9 minutes?

Chopin ... Etudes (set- see quotation of Furtwaengler post for my thoughts.)

Encore: Schumann Op. 13 No. 1

Depending on how successful the concert is, I might be able to do 2 encores, in which case I'd do a MacDowell Etude before the Schumann, which I learned a year and a half ago and which can be recalled quickly and easily.

Thanks everyone- I'm getting closer.  Then, of course, I await my teacher's approval.

(P.S. I have some magnificent recordings with Furtwaengler (sp?) as conductor.)

[quantum]

Interesting thing about Medtner is that while his music may not be the kind that one is instantly attracted to, his compositional craftsmanship is nothing less that first rate!  I found out that the process of studying a Medtner work increases one's appreciation for Medtner's art.  I find that he is a rather hands on composer - you really have to play the music to fully discover it's potential. 

[dnephi]

What do you think of Alkan's Quasi-Faust from the Op. 33 Sonata? That'd be great for my wrist/chord technique .

[houseofblackleaves]

Why don't you pair the Chopin op.25/12 with a nocturne?  You know... a nice, soft piece to contrast the ferocity of the etude, ne?

I agree with the Medtner suggestions.  Why not try Rachmaninoff's Moment Musicaux?  And for some 20th century works,  you could always try a set of minatures.  Like Bartok's Microkosmos, or Kurtag's Jatekok? 

And I suggest to play the Schumann before the intermission. 

Just my suggestions!

[imbetter]

Essentially, I have a lot of a program down, but I need a larger romantic piece before the final two Chopin Etudes to finish.  A lot of things in the air

Bach-Liszt: Am P&F

Haydn: Sonata (One of six, I'm still choosing.  Possibly the F Major or the c# minor)

--Intermission--

Schumann: (Either a set of 2 or 3 Fantasiestucke (Op. 12) or one of Schumann's Op. 21 Noveletten.)

Debussy: A Prelude (Or, if you can recommend me a good, fairly short 20th century piece which is a bit abstract, I'd love it!  Don't be too hard, I don't want to do a program of all big things)

Larger Romantic Work.  My teacher suggested any Chopin ballade but the 4th (duh  ), one of the scherzos (the 1st being the only one I really like), and suggested that I stay away from Liszt, which I could do later, after this recital.  She said that the 1st ballade is her favorite besides the fourth and that I shouldn't worry about what's overplayed or not overplayed.  I should play what I like. 
What would you recommend? 

A couple of Chopin Etudes (Avoiding all etudes with lots of double-notes and awkward fingerings (IE, NOT 10-2, 25-6).  Suggestions?  I would particularly like to do 25-12 and one other.  Which one might best prepare one's technique for Liszt etudes, which I'd like to move on to after this recital?  (PS, tell whoever I made the WJ duel with to cancel.  I won't do it.)

This recital is where I will officially draw the end of my childhood.  It will be after I graduate from College, the end of my time to live in the midwest, the climax of my childhood musical pursuits, and be right before I leave on a mission for my church.
Therefore, my encore will be a piece which I heard often in my childhood and which brings back many memories and a fit of nostalgia: Schumann's Kinderszenen #1- Von Fremden und Landern.

Thoughts, suggestions, and comments, please.

Thanks.

well...it's a little short.

1. bach-liszt (9 minutes)
2. 10 minutes of scriabin preludes (a lot of the slower ones from op11 are almost sight readable so you wont really have too much trouble, plus they're really nice pieces)
3. haydn
INTERMISSION
4. maybe you could do about 20 minutes of debussy or rachmaninoff preludes or scarlatti sonatas? (if your doing the scriabin id do scarlatti)
5. chopin nocturnes or mazurkas (10 mintues worth?)
6. ballade 1 (9 minutes)


just some thoughts on how to make a substantial program without too much trouble

[soliloquy]

Maybe something like:

Debussy Images II
Bach from "Well Tempered Klavier" Book II- Prelude and Fugue in F Sharp Minor
Chopin Nocturne Op. 48 No. 1 in C Sharp Minor
Chopin Etudes Op. 25 No. 12, Op. 25 No. 7, Op. 10 No. 4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Schumann Fantasiestucke Op. 12
A set of short pieces by Rach, Scriabin or a sonata by Scriabin, Roslavets (No. 5), Feinberg or an Rzewski Ballad
Wagner-Liszt Isolda's Liebestod or Ballade No. 2


Short and not too tough.

[imbetter]

Short and not too tough.

lol yea right.

the point in mine was to make it as ballanced and simple as needed

[soliloquy]

the point in mine was to make it as ballanced and simple as needed

Yes this statement reflects how daring and interesting your suggest is also.  Oh, and 20 minutes of Scarlatti?  That's what crowds want to hear

[imbetter]

20 minutes of scarlatti cant be any worse than a 26 minute phantasiestucke by schumann.

its better than 20 minutes of modern crap that makes your ears bleed.

[soliloquy]

its better than 20 minutes of modern crap that makes your ears bleed.

I didn't suggest any long modern pieces.  I didn't even suggest anything particularly modernistic.  The longest Rzewski Ballad is like 12 minutes, and that's with the improvisation.  The longest Scriabin sonata is one of his earlier ones, therefore not modern.  There's also the 15 minutes Sonata No. 8 that is too hard so it's not going to get chosen.  The Roslavets is 10 minutes, and I bet you've never even heard it.  The Feinbergs are similar to late Scriabin.  Or are you saying that Rachmaninov is "modern"?  I don't understand.  Mostly because what you said is too stupid to make sense.  Also, you must play pretty slow for it to take you almost half an hour to get through the Op. 12.

[imbetter]

YOU are the one acting stupid here

Your saying who would wana listen to 20 minutes of scarlatti. im saying 20 minutes of scarlatti is better then 20 minutes of modern crap. im not refering your previous post.

[dnephi]

What are roslavets sonatas?

Besides, I think Schumann is at his best in his miniatures.

And thanks, soliliquy, you're responses are very helpful- it wouldn't hurt to keep them up.

[retrouvailles]

Roslavets' sonatas are very good, yet quite difficult. They don't fall under "modern crap that makes your ears bleed" and they are quite lovely. They would be a nice surprise for your audience. I would personally go with No. 1, not No. 5 though.

And I agree with Soliloquy. Listening to 20 minutes of Schumann, when played well, is actually very enjoyable. Scarlatti can get very monotonous and should be used sparingly. It's important to keep your audience in mind when scheduling recitals.

[dnephi]

Roslavets' sonatas are very good, yet quite difficult. They don't fall under "modern crap that makes your ears bleed" and they are quite lovely. They would be a nice surprise for your audience. I would personally go with No. 1, not No. 5 though.

And I agree with Soliloquy. Listening to 20 minutes of Schumann, when played well, is actually very enjoyable. Scarlatti can get very monotonous and should be used sparingly. It's important to keep your audience in mind when scheduling recitals.

Schumann is always unpredictable, but usually doesn't sound bad at all.


A look at the sheets makes 5 look more possible- one of my big weaknesses is cross-rhythms.  5 doesn't have any big problems like 1 does.

I can bring it up.

What do you think of Medtner's Sonata Tragica?  Might there be a better suggestion of Medtner that juz Unleazhes without being too long?

[retrouvailles]

Medtner is a very good suggestion, especially the Sonata Tragica. It's short, sweet, and to the point. A larger Medtner piece would not be as good an idea, because sometimes audiences aren't ready for Medtner. The Sonata Tragica is perfect though, if you're able to handle it.

[etudes]

medtner G minor sonata op.22 
or check out your thread in da SDC   

[dnephi]

I'm going to put some feedback and other thoughts up here now.

Thanks everyone for your responses, here and elsewhere ...

About the Classical Sonata, has anyone else actually played one of Haydn's before?  I was surprised by the slightness of the technical requirements.  It's so easy that I'm not sure I want to perform it.  It's beautiful, flawless in its craft, and wonderfully displays fingerwork.  But at the same time, it's short, it's easy, and doesn't feel satisfying like a Beethoven sonata.

Schumann- Chose Op. 12 Nos. 2-4.
Chose the Haydn F Major Sonata HBK 16:23, learned first and last movements.
Teacher is looking/thinking/asking colleagues about etudes/big romantic works.

Thanks all.