Is Chopin Etude a good way to measure one's potential as a good pianist?

[nyonyo]

Hi All,

I have just come back from my piano lesson. This is my second lesson with my new teacher. Fifteen years ago, I took piano lesson for about 9 months, before that I took no more than 6 months of piano lesson. This time I decided to be really serious. At this moment, I am learing Mozart Sonata in C Major K. 330 and Arabesque #1 by the Debussy. I practice between 1.5 hour to 2 hours a day. By the way, I am an adult.
At the end of the lesson today, I asked my teacher in 5 years how far I will be? He said it depends on me. I agree with his answer, but I want to know how to assess my potential in playing piano. He told me that he needs to give me harder pieces. In this case, he would use Chopin Etudes to assess my ability. He basically said that if I can do Chopin Etude well, I can go far. Otherwise, my future in playing piano will be limited.

Are you guys agree with his statement?  I really appreciate your opinion.

RS

[pianistimo]

no.  etudes are merely speed bumps on the path to success.  what about tone production?   i realize a good piano helps - but knowing where a certain piano has this sound in it is revealing.  it's an experimentation with the action to see where and what level of energy is needed to produce what sound (and where to pedal - and how fast or slow to pedal).  but, don't tell your teacher.  just go along with the idea and play those etudes as well as possible.

i used to give myself these talks 'you should be here at thus and thus a time.'  but, you know what - 'life goes on' and you don't always meet these supposed 'critical' deadlines.  just say to yourself - 'what is the worst that can happen?'  you lose a teacher.  ok.  there are 10,000 more out there.  * i know - he/she is the only teacher you want right now.

what if you just played one etude really really well for 20 years.  (i'm not saying to lower your standards, mind you, because i want to learn them all.  but, perform them all? ha!)
tell him/her you don't plan on being a pollini.  you just want to have some fun.  maybe after you've mastered 2-3 and want to go on to the ballades or mazurkas or something.

there should be a u-tube comedy on 'piano-monkeys.'   for teachers: something like - 'can your monkey do this?'

[faulty_damper]

Making tasteful music is the ultimate in a musician's expression, not by being a good pianist by playing etudes.

What is most interesting is that for a vast majority of pianists is that they never get beyond the pianistic problems and always confuse music making as piano playing.  They concern themselves with having the fastest fingers or playing certain pieces as fast as possible to the detriment of these very musical pieces that it no longer has the meaning that was intended.  This is part of the development as an instrumentalist but it is a pervasive phenomenon that few ever conquer including many well-known pianists that so many admire.

When pianistic problems are not an issue, they then turn to the musical issues and concern themselves with their ideas of music.  But this is rare.  Instead, when adequate control is reached for them to make music, this insufficient control leads to more and more piano playing because it is not the most perfect of control.  And when this situation is elaborated by the thousands, you get a a carnaval of pianists parading their abilities to the ignorant masses amazed at what their fingers can do.

Your teacher's statement is only partially true.  True in the sense that from Chopin's studies and onward, they were the most radical amongst commonly accepted piano technique.  Virtually no one could play Chopin's studies because they had a different conception of technique.  So clearly, in order to play these studies with great ease and expression, you already have the technique.

It's false when you consider that many who learn these studies actually play them in a manner that was not intended by the composer; id est, once they stop practicing them they lose their ability, or they do not make music...  They play them incorrectly and abuse the music and their fingers.

The second statement about a limited future is very subjective.  I do not agree with it taken as is but if it was said with the assumption that technique and music making are two sides of the same coin, then he is right.  But he could have said the same thing about Mozart's sonatas or Liszt's music or Debussy's.  I don't think I would ever want to play Chopin's studies because I don't find them musically worth while and would rather persue more interesting things.  This is probably where you form your own opinions as to your musical future.

Piano playing and music making cannot be separated.  Both must shine through with ease and effortlessness - this is the test I use for myself, other musicians (not just pianists) and my students.  If it is easy and effortless to create music with even the most difficult of piano music, then you have entered the most basic of mastery.

[nyonyo]

Thanks for the replies!! I think what he wants to make sure that I have enough vertuosity to play difficult pieces.

[amelialw]

well...I feel every pianist should have a taste of chopin's etudes.They help improve flexibility,technique, musicality etc. I know that because I myself have felt it but it's not just because of the chopin etudes alone. You should have a balanced repertoire and that in the end is the neccesity.

[thalberg]

nyonyo, there is simply no way to assess potential.  Literally anything can happen. 

However, Chopin Etudes do address the issue of finger coordination, and that is the major sticking point in piano lessons for most adults.

[cmg]

Which composers do you love?  What music resonates with you?  Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Post-Romantic, Modern, Post-Modern?  If you love it, explore it.  It's not hard to discover what pieces are beyond your technical/musical development at any point -- they are the ones you simply can't get into your hands.  So.  Keep exploring until you find what you can handle.

The Chopin Etudes are not some technical "litmus test."  They are simply Chopin's "credo."  The Etudes are his demonstration of the technical problems one will encounter in his compositions.  Given his genius, they have turned out to be a Romantic Piano Manifesto.  But they don't determine your future as a pianist.  You can bypass their challenges and still be a fine pianist.  There IS Liszt, you know. 

Play what you are attracted to.  Perfect it.  Chopin won't mind if you ignore his Etudes.   

[amelialw]

haha...talking about that, i've been learning the piano for 17 years and never learnt any Lizst.

[ultraviolet]

haha...talking about that, i've been learning the piano for 17 years and never learnt any Lizst.

Hahaha......Liszt sux.  All it is is music that was written to say, "look how good I am" but it really isn't that hard.  I mean, everything he wrote fits the hand really well, yet it sounds like you're doing something really amazing.  Not hard, just sounds hard.  And even the stuff he wrote that is sort of hard like la compost-nella doesn't really have any musical value.

[opus10no2]

Ultraviolet - bs.

To the topic author - they aren't essential for everyone, but are essential for everyone if they're serious about comparitive virtuosity.

They are great for developing all technique, but they are also most notable in that listening to recordings by various pianists gives you a clear way to hear the extent of their technical skill.