what is perfect pitch?

[falling4ever3]

i have heard a lot of people talking about perfect pitch, and why some people dont' have it, and some do, but what exactly is this ability?

- falling4ever3

[Greg_Fodrea]

Well, here's my attempt at a definition: Perfect pitch is the ability to identify a tone by note name simply by hearing the tone (also called "absolute pitch").  True absolute pitch allows an individual do do this without an external reference tone.  In other words, someone could play an E, and a person with perfect pitch would immediately know that it is an E.  I've talked to those who have this ability (I don't), and they often liken the process to recognizing a color.  When you see something blue, you immediately recognize it as blue, even without another color for reference.  Apparantly, people with perfect pitch do the same with tones.  Some studies of the phenomenon (University of California) seem to indicate that some have a genetic predisposition to this trait.  Others claim it can be learned.

Another form of "perfect pitch" is to be able to hear or recognize a pitch compared to a reference tone.  Many of us have this ability (or can develop it rather easily).  This is an invaluable skill for musicians, and should be developed.

Does that answer your question?

[Daevren]

"Another form of "perfect pitch" is to be able to hear or recognize a pitch compared to a reference tone.  Many of us have this ability (or can develop it rather easily).  This is an invaluable skill for musicians, and should be developed. "

Thats not perfect pitch and all humans have it. If they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to listen to music, let alone recognise speech. But you need to develop your relative pitch to name intervals.

[comme_le_vent]

thats it, the 2nd kind you mention is actually called relative pitch, and isnt perfect pitch at all.

[Daevren]

Naming intervals is kind of like the colour thing with PP tough. If I hear an interval that I have to name its like something that unfolds. The bigger the interval the larger the angle of unfolding. It could be compared with 'colours' notes have to someone with PP.

Its different from hearing that one note is higher or lower than another.

[faulty_damper]

I had this same question before i logged on today.  And you asked the question!  Saves me time to ask it.

I guess I don't have perfect pitch.  Playing on a piano that is out of tune pretty much screws your chances of developing it.  But...

Ever since I started tuning my own piano, I can tell if the unison is off by .05 vibrations per second.  Actually, I can tell if the deviation is off by less than that.  The first note I learned to tune was C.  And playing it dozens of times just to hear the unison together really helped me develop the C-perfect pitch.  You play just that note, I can recongnize it.  Then I started to tune other notes.  Now I can't really recognize C-perfect.  So I guess I don't have perfect pitch.

But I can tell if the unison is out of tune, though.

[comme_le_vent]

naming intervals is relative pitch, it is a totally different perception.

perfect pitch isnt about hearing how high or low a note is - its about hearing individual qualities in the notes themselves - hearing a certain edginess - or a certain mellowness etc.

[cellodude]

Very interesting discussion here. Just want to add my 0.02 worth.

Hereditary vs. learned. I tend to lean towards learned from experience and I do think the window for learning or acquiring perfect pitch (PP) is rather small.

Let me elaborate. I learned to play the piano at age 10 (now 44) and I don't have PP. Neither my parents nor their parents have PP although they had exposure to classical music almost all their lives (didn't start young though).

However, my 2 children aged 7 and nine have PP. They have been exposed to classical music since birth. My daughter was barely a month old when she was all wrapped up in swaddling clothes with T's 1812 blasting cannons into her ears! Poor thing! Same thing with my son although to a lesser degree. My son started violin and piano at 5 while my daughter started piano at 5 and violin at 7.

So, apparently they must have picked it up between birth and 5 or 7 and the cutoff point (window) must be somewhere between 7 and 10 because I started at 10 and I don't have PP. That would seem to rule out genes too.

So for a while I was blissfully at peace with the universe and all that... until a shattering revelation brought an end to my serenity.

Enter the cousin. My wife's side of the family has no experience whatsoever with classical music. But because her neice and our daughter are the same age her sister decided to let her learn the piano (5) and violin (7). Now, their old broken excuse for a piano is horribly out of tune and is not tunable and they are not getting a new one anytime soon (misers they are! please don't tell my wife I said that) BUT the girl has PP! Now how do you explain that? They have never heard of classical music before I met my wife let alone be exposed to it. So how did she acquire it? Just by hearing the in-tune violin? That's the only possible explanation. It also seems to indicate that very early exposure to correct pitch is not necessary for acquiring PP (You can wait till 5 or 7).

As for adults, I think it's too much effort for too little value to learn PP although some claim it is possible. Any other thoughts on this?

dennis lee

[Daevren]

I agree with cellodude.

[faulty_damper]

If perfect pitch is identifying the notes, then why not practice it?  Play a note (be sure the keys are tuned properly) and make a note of which key it is.

This seems really easy but you have 13 keys to do it with.

If it is the tone quality of the note in having PP, then of any keys should represent that sound, BUT! The piano isn't tempered evenly like other instruments -  it's tempered to all the scales so you can change scales and it still sounds un-awkward.  With a violin, you the player changes the quality of the note; with the piano, that is left to the piano tuner - the player has no control of the pitch.  (at least this is my understanding of it).

This could explain why piano concertoes sound ever so slightly off with the orchestra, am I right?

[Bob]

I've always heard the orchestra should adjust to the piano when playing a concerto.  I bet string players hate this.

Has anybody developed perfect pitch?  Learned it?

I've heard of the window too.  Nice to find out out when you're too old.

However, is perfect pitch desirable?  I've heard it messes up your relative pitch.  People with perfect pitch might have a lot more difficulty transposing too.

Any more thoughts?

[Bob]

Has anybody tried that "David L. Burge" Perfect Pitch Trianing Course?  He says you can learn it.   Any comments about that?

[faulty_damper]

I didn't try the course.  Might look into it, though.


Okay, so I tested myself today.  I stood at the side of the piano and pressed a key, whatever key my finger touched.

It sounded like C.

I turned around and looked and I was right!  C!

But I was also the one who tuned that key so I had lots of time listening to it.  It was tuned to unison!  Not one string slipped.

[faulty_damper]

I've always heard the orchestra should adjust to the piano when playing a concerto.  I bet string players hate this.

Once, during a recital, my teacher repeatedly pressed the C key (or was it A440?)  This was to signal to the other players, who were playing strings, to tune it to the piano.  I was expecting them to start tuning but they didn't do anything!  They weren't even paying attention when she pressed the key over and over.

Anyway, during their playing, they were so off!  I mean off!  I mean I was sorta giggling at it every time they started their playing... I knew it wasn't that the violins/strings were not playing well but that they didn't bother to tune it to the piano!  Anyway, it was a very disjunct recital of a piece.

If you're a string playing, you have to tune it to the piano.  Tuning a piano takes about 45 minutes or more.  Tuning a violin/strings: 4 strings are much easier to tune than two hundred fifty + strings on a piano.  I know too well about the latter.  It took me 7 hours to tune my piano the first time I tried it.

[punter]

I started learning piano when I was 4.  I learnt by the Suzuki method, which is based on listening to the pieces you're learning regularily, even before you start learning them.  I can't remember, but apparently sometimes by the time I started learning a piece, I new it completely by sound, and so the sheet music was not very important to me.  

I'm not sure if this is related, by I have perfect pitch.  I can't describe what it feels like, it just seems completely natural to me.  Until I was 17 I didn't even realise it wasn't normal.  I had to do a musicianship test as part of a school exam. Part of the test was to listen to a scale, and say whether it was major or minor.  We were practising, and my teacher played a scale, and asked me major or minor?  I said d minor.  He was quite shocked, and explained that it is not normal.

But yes I imagine it would cause problems with transcriptions, etc.  I've never tried, but I used to be in some kind of jazz band, playing keyboard.  Can't really remember exactly the circumstances, but basically I was asked to play the trumpet part on the keyboard.  They gave me the music, and changed the key of the keyboard to b flat, like the trumpet.  I couldn't do it.   Every time I played a note, it just didn't sound right.  For example if I was reading a c, and playing c, it sounded like b flat, so I thought I was playing the wrong note.  It was basically impossible.  Maybe with practice it would be possible to train yourself to play in different keys, but maybe that would just make you lose the perfect pitch.

Punter

[Bob]

(Bob drags up old threads.)

Hey, look what I found.