What would be a good age to start teaching beginner-intermediate students?

[imbetter]

pretty straight forward question.

[spaciiey]

Whenever you think you'd be able to do it. One of my cousins is seventeen and she teaches piano and violin on top of her school work. She's done it for about a year... and charges 15 dollars for 30 min.

[lau]

I was going to type something good but then i thought it wouldn't be good. so...now i don't know what to do. i am excited for the corn carnival but it is just depressing because it is a signal for school. how am i even going to get to school anymore with my brother graduated and all. I guess i could just get rides from bo. But then i would have to come like 20 minutes early like he does everyday. But i am definately not riding the bus.

i am excited to take some spanish next year, but chances are i won't become near to fluent. So why do they even offer these programs. uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


the walls are green. with a nice brown wood border. i am not sure i like it painted green the white with the weird stuff on it was fine. and what is all of this pokey stuff on the ceiling. is it just for some looks? man, that ceiling fan has been on 24/7..i think it's cool that it keeps up in running for so long. i am sort of scared for the lamp because i tried to turn it on and the little thing fell off. so now if i try to turn it on i think it might electrocute me. i remember one time i was trying to plug something in while in the dark. then i got electrocuted cuz i think my hand got linked to the plug in and the plug in for the thing i was plugging in. i hate getting shocked. every once in a while i flip a light switch and it shockes me. my friend had this pen and when you try to click it to make the pen thing come out it shockes you. it makes me afraid to click other pens in fear of being shocked.

uh, i should take me drivers test sometime soon. i mean kids a year younger than me already have their liscences. it would have helped if i didn't fail my permit test 3 times. i told my mom we should have taken it in St. Cloud but she said Hutch because she didn't want to drive like ten more miles. i told her that the tests were probably different in st cloud but she didn't believe me. then when we finally went to st cloud to take the test, of course i passed
THERE. yeah, the tests were different. they provided pictures with the question so i could understand better what they were saying.

i should get a job soon. i am the only one in my family who didn't detassle. i did apply to work at jimmys pizza but i wasn't good enough because i didn't have a drivers liscence for delivery. but he said he would hire me anyway then i guess he changed his mind. so now i don't know if i should work at gary family foods are the DEC or something. my brother works at garys and he hates it. he says that i will not like it but i don't believe him. hmm, i wonder what i should do.

best wishes,
Bernhlau

[imbetter]

more opinions would be helpful.

[m1469]

When to start teaching has less to do with age than it has to do with a desire to be involved in that particular endeavor, and a willingness to evolve throughout the experience.   Age itself does not qualify nor disqualify a person for the profession.

[imbetter]

i know but whos gonna take lessons from a 12 year old?

[m1469]

People are not in the market for taking lessons from whatever year olds, they are in the market for taking lessons with somebody who will help them grow.

[imbetter]

i respect your opinion but im still not sure people will have their children take lessons from a 12 year old.

[pianistimo]

is lau alright?  i mean - the part about the brown-green border and whatever else was kind of 'out there' if you know what i mean.  how come alistair doesn't pick on lau?

i would say that depending upon the 'credentials' of the person (which could be many years of lessons) one could reasonably take on beginning piano students with the idea of functioning as a sort of peer/helper rather than doctorate level teacher.  and, get paid at least the minimum wages for a piano teacher which, imo, should be higher than a babysitter who just sits down and tell them to play nicely.

try some homeschool groups.  they want cheaper lessons sometimes because some have fairly large families.  and, if you teach a pair of siblings - you've got lots of experience to gain as well as give.  it gives you a good perspective about teaching.  also, you can pass on the students to your own teacher or another teacher once they have learned to sightread and play the basic stuff that first and second year students do. 

people who say - you must teach a student a precise way at the beginning only have a point, imo, if that person's aim is to be a concert pianist.  you may as well serve the slop in the lunchroom for the other 50,000.  but, of course - i don't advocate slop at all.  what i mean -is that  'so what' if you are not stopping them every two seconds or making them play for two hours straight.  not everyone wants to be tortured (unless they love piano).

[pianowolfi]

i know but whos gonna take lessons from a 12 year old?

perhaps a 60 year old

[imbetter]

what do you mean by that

[pianowolfi]

what do you mean by that

I mean, the older a person is the more he/she might be able to relativate things and to see things in a bigger context. The more "life experience" someone has the more he/she might be able to learn from anyone. "Also" from a 12 year old.

[m1469]

i respect your opinion but im still not sure people will have their children take lessons from a 12 year old.

Actually, I completely agree with you; I would not send my child to a 12 year old.  But, I wouldn't send them to a 30 year old or a 65 year old either.  I would send them to somebody who is going to help them learn and grow. 

Why would any teacher define their teaching by their age ? 

[imbetter]

i wouldntm1469but its the parents decision.

[cmg]

Teaching is a major responsibility.  It takes more than proficiency in an art form.  It requires emotional maturity and familiarity with human psychology.  That comes with life experience and education.  A 12-year-old isn't remotely ready.  Even Mozart would have been a disastrous teacher at that age. 

I can't believe anyone here is entertaining the idea that a 12-year-old would be ready to take on this challenge.   

[mike_lang]

i respect your opinion but im still not sure people will have their children take lessons from a 12 year old.

I don't know about that - my teacher began to teach when he was thirteen.  One of his students just won the Gilmore Young Artist award.

[m1469]

i wouldntm1469but its the parents decision.

To some extent, no matter what your age, it is always their decision and, it is also always your decision.  It's always up to you to decide how you are going to present yourself, and you can either choose to be hung up on your age and worried about that, or you can get yourself busy learning how to teach and start acting like a teacher.  That's your choice.

Also, you are not going to know until you try.  As well, just like when you are ready the right teacher will appear, it is similar with teaching.  You get the students you are ready for -- it's practically a law of nature  .

Also, why do you want to teach ? 

In closing, haven't you been 12 for like 3 years now ? 

[pianowolfi]

In closing, haven't you been 12 for like 3 years now ? 

lol 12 years is a beautiful age isn't it? but he registered on nov. 18 and then he said he was 11 so that sounds right imo

[imbetter]

i was 11 when i joined and i turned 12 not too long ago.

cmg and mayla, the point in this thread is to ask what would be a good age to start not if i should start.

[m1469]

Well, my answers would obviously all be the same, just exclude yourself from it.  However, why do you have any point in asking at all if you are not interested yourself ? 

In any event, perhaps you have within yourself an answer that you feel is better suited to the conversation.  My answer is that there is no specific age -- what are you looking for, an exact number ?  You would like to make an International "legal age" for the right time to start teaching beginners and intermediates ?

Cheers, imbetter  .

[cmg]

cmg and mayla, the point in this thread is to ask what would be a good age to start not if i should start.

Sorry, imbetter.  I misunderstood your question.

Okay, let's reframe an answer for you this way.  Conventionally, piano students in degree-granting college programs, study piano pedagogy.  Usually a one-semester course where you are familiarized with the various teaching approaches and the leading authors of the books that present that method.  You get a beginning student through the music prep department and you teach this kiddo under the supervision of an experienced teacher.  After that first kiddo, you may be a prep dept teacher, where you are not directly supervised anymore, but you have experienced teachers around to help you troubleshoot any problems.

So, the pedagogy course is generally required of most piano majors in their second, third or fourth year of schooling.  That would make the teacher-in-training typically 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 years of age.  Or older, of course.

Could someone younger than this teach?  Yes, if they had the maturity and pedagogy training, but such a situation would be rather unusual. 

You're a smart guy, imbetter, so if you're the one who wants to teach, take into consideration the above info.  Teaching is really very difficult, I think.  If you're lame at it, you'll cause damage.  So, if you yourself begin teaching, you should hire your teacher to supervise you right off the bat.  However, I think you should wait. 

If you need cash badly right now, steal hubcaps or something.

[m1469]

Yikes, I better have my 4 and 5 year olds stop teaching their siblings, parents and friends and I suppose I ought to ban them from it completely, if I hear about them doing it against all better judgement and without my supervision

[cmg]

Yikes, I better have my 4 and 5 year olds stop teaching their siblings, parents and friends and I suppose I ought to ban them from it completely, if I hear about them doing it against all better judgement and without my supervision

Now, m1469, you're makin' fun of me and that's naughty.  But what can you expect from a girl who misspent her youth stealing hubcaps . . .

[pianowolfi]

Also, you are not going to know until you try.  As well, just like when you are ready the right teacher will appear, it is similar with teaching.  You get the students you are ready for -- it's practically a law of nature  .

This is exactly my experience too, to some extent, though, I am a sceptical nature and don't believe it if not every week proves it again to me...or I prove it to the week...or so touchy subject but very interesting.

Yikes, I better have my 4 and 5 year olds stop teaching their siblings, parents and friends and I suppose I ought to ban them from it completely, if I hear about them doing it against all better judgement and without my supervision

I love it too when my little ones start to teach, with sparkling eyes

[cmg]

Wolfi?  m1469 made fun of me!

Imagine.  Our sweet Pamina turning into the vengeful Queen of the Night!  Mark my words:  before you know it, she'll be working on the role of "Medea." 

[pianowolfi]

Wolfi?  m1469 made fun of me!

Imagine.  Our sweet Pamina turning into the vengeful Queen of the Night!  Mark my words:  before you know it, she'll be working on the role of "Medea." 

Yes sure I know . She might even sing roles that don't exist yet .  But you know my 4-5 (or at least 5-6) year olds actually occasionally teach their friends and family And I guess her students do that too. Sometimes when they have learned something new and the lesson was motivating (which I surely think that m1469's lessons are) they run to their friends and can't wait to show them what they have learned. Well usually they are not the most patient teachers lol but they learn from it

[cmg]

I once worked on the Rach2 concerto with a four-year-old teacher.  He was merciless!  Throwing tantrums when I didn't voice chords enough.  Kicking me when I didn't stress innner voices!  Honestly, wolfi, I almost took up saxophone after that.

[pianowolfi]

I once worked on the Rach2 concerto with a four-year-old teacher.  He was merciless!  Throwing tantrums when I didn't voice chords enough.  Kicking me when I didn't stress innner voices!  Honestly, wolfi, I almost took up saxophone after that.

rofl that slightly reminds me of this

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25462.msg288290.html#msg288290

[pianistimo]

but, cmg - you forget - most beginniners aren't working concertos.  they are working whatever method is presented - quite methodically.  i think you should be sure of your method, though -and not rely on method books entirely.  that is where i totally agree with what you are saying.  confidence comes from being sure that your way is 'right.'  even if someone else's is right also.

i think that confidence comes from remembering the BEST first lesson you ever had.  perhaps it was a method different from john thompson?  i love john thompson for the times we were in - but hey - it didn't motivate me that much.  somehow - i relate it to the note size.  do you remember how SMALL the notes were for young eyes.  they'd have to grow 10" higher and lean forward to read the small notes.

first off - imbetter - make sure you have method books with BIG notes.  like bastien.  (shhh. i know - not supposed to tell what books to use).  and, also - to remember the usual vocabulary for each age.  i was very bad at this in the beginning and used long sentences and too complicated of ideas.  really, the best idea is to try out your method on an unsuspecting family member.  if you don't have a younger cousin - just grab someone in the neighborhood.

ask them after or during the lesson if what you are doing makes any sense to them.  usually they will tell you if something was confusing.  also, maintain respect by not getting all buddy buddy with them and telling them it's ok to zone out for 5 minutes and tell you about the ball-game down the street.  keeping younger students focused on the lesson at hand is probably going to be your biggest first challenge.  how to make it interesting.

[cmg]

Well done, pianistimo.  Excellent advice.  Thank you so much!   

[pianowolfi]

Wolfi?  m1469 made fun of me!

Imagine.  Our sweet Pamina turning into the vengeful Queen of the Night!  Mark my words:  before you know it, she'll be working on the role of "Medea." 

Slightly off topic but quite interesting to me, somehow: may I introduce Medea



painting by Evelyn De Morgan (1855- 1919)

[amanfang]

I quit reading all the replies...

My thoughts:  It depends on what you mean by "teaching."  If you mean in the professional sense where you contract with parents to teach their children, I would wait until at least 16 or 17, and even then keep it in conjunction of another teacher who will somewhat supervise you.  Observe many other teachers teaching elementary and intermediate students as well first.  Do lots of homework in various pedagogical approaches.
Now in the non-professional sense, I think anyone can teach anyone else at anytime.  A 7 year-old can come home and teach his dad what he learned in his lesson, and probably do a fairly good job of demonstrating it.  Teach your friends and family for free - experiment on them.  Or volunteer at a retirement or assisted living place.  Teach the residents to play for free.  You will gain a lot of experience that way.

[m1469]

Now, m1469, you're makin' fun of me and that's naughty.  But what can you expect from a girl who misspent her youth stealing hubcaps . . .

Hi, cmg.  No, I do not make fun of you  .

[m1469]

This is exactly my experience too, to some extent, though, I am a sceptical nature and don't believe it if not every week proves it again to me...or I prove it to the week...or so touchy subject but very interesting.

Well, I don't think it's too much of a mysterious thing really.  If a person is not ready for a student, the student will either never sign on, or they will simply leave (this is not to say that every time these happen that it is because the teacher is not ready for the student -- it can be a couple of different things).  I have had this happen a few times in my career so far, and once very clearly as a "voice teacher"  -- when I "tried" being one (I really have next to NO interest in this particular profession).

[m1469]

Imagine.  Our sweet Pamina turning into the vengeful Queen of the Night!  Mark my words:  before you know it, she'll be working on the role of "Medea." 

Maybe, maybe not  .