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Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor (Read 8174 times)

Offline andhow04

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Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
« on: August 14, 2007, 02:19:05 AM »
First movement!
Maestoso - Allegro con brio ed appassionato

piano sheet music of Sonata 32


Offline andhow04

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #1 on: August 14, 2007, 02:29:45 AM »
Second and final movement.
Adagio - Theme & variations.

Offline imbetter

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #2 on: August 14, 2007, 12:49:13 PM »
I LOVE THIS SONATA.


thank you so much for posting.

theres a funny wrong note every once in a while but its ok.
"My advice to young musicians: Quit music! There is no choice. It has to be a calling, and even if it is and you think there's a choice, there is no choice"-Vladimir Feltsman

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #3 on: August 14, 2007, 03:14:14 PM »
i like it too!  a lot of thought and carefulness to the ideas.  i think beethoven had the flexibility you show here with the tempos - and doesn't have to be so 'straight.'  maybe his earlier sonatas were 'straighter' - but you seem to show that not only composition was taking a dramatic turn here - but the tempo connections are looser and freer.  like free-associations.

Offline andhow04

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #4 on: August 15, 2007, 01:32:08 AM »
i like it too!  a lot of thought and carefulness to the ideas.  i think beethoven had the flexibility you show here with the tempos - and doesn't have to be so 'straight.'  maybe his earlier sonatas were 'straighter' - but you seem to show that not only composition was taking a dramatic turn here - but the tempo connections are looser and freer.  like free-associations.

thanx for comments.  I love this sonata because on one hand it is so virile and dramatic but on the other one it has these fantastic moments of doubt, which remind me of the line from the ninth symhpony, "Ueber Sternenzelt muss ein lieber Vater wohnen," which beethoven set in my opinion like a moment of doubt amidst a jubilant background.  i guess both are static in a way.

I like Schnabel's playing because he is looser with the tempo in all the sonatas.  i read somewhere that beethoven changed tempos all the time, but these days every thing seems so square.

previous poster: yikes! i couldnt get away from wrong notes.  Recorded this 4 times straight thru (no editing) and was exhausted.  I think this was the best.  diffrnt versions had different strengths.  I might play it too fast but richter plays it fast.  Probably just needs more time!

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #5 on: August 15, 2007, 04:36:20 AM »
Respect all in all! This is a piece that mercilessly shows everything of the performing individual, I think. So it's a certain risk to post a rec of it. I like the fast and furious approach in the Allegro part of the first movement. Yes it's fast and it's good like that though I heard several slower interpretations. "wrong notes? Don't care about them" (Scherbakov). The 32nd notes in the maestoso could be a bit sharper and more aggressive in my book, the double dotted eighths therefore a bit longer, it would be more dramatical and tragical and more like "french ouverture" and "pathetique" style ("pathetique" in the french sense of course) This movement definitely has a tendency to go beyond the scope of the instrument as well as of the performer and it's one of these pieces where I have the wish to explode and to have a piano with limitless dynamic options. The buildups are just *huge* and actually often not physically realisable, sort of. To burst out beyond the borders of life and then find another dimension in the second movement. I feel that you are struggling with these limits also, that you always want to go further than the instrument allows you to go. What piano? Sorry if you said it elsewhere already. respect also for the "boogie" variation (though I call it "ode to joy 2" rather than boogie :)), it sounds really swingy and though tender. The pp variation that follows could be more pp and more mysterious, that is where the actual transition begins, the process I could call "eversion" or so. You decided to stay more on a "bright joy" level rather than on a "dark glow" and "twinkly star" level, it's difficult to find words for this, as you surely know. I think this turn into an inward world is so much important for this movement, this going into the almost very silence. But I know how tricky this is and how much the sound of a recording or a room or a certain instrument can give a wrong impression. So take it with a grain of salt. The parts that come afterwards are very well played, but they could profit from this "turn inwards". I hope I make sense with all this. The last part also could benefit from an even more intimate and "metaphysical" touch, though it is already very tender. I hope this won't offend you, I think you are on a very good way and it's already very wonderful  :)

Offline drumbummer

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #6 on: August 17, 2007, 06:36:53 PM »
Thats a beautiful song

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #7 on: August 17, 2007, 06:53:18 PM »

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #8 on: August 18, 2007, 10:15:01 PM »
It seems the less polished of the material you just published, but I find it musically compelling.  I especially enjoy the phrasing in the slower bits of the first movement; you helped to clarify my image of how those fit into the whole.  This performance reflects a grasp of the structure that perhaps gives too much to large details and not enough to small ones?  I hope that's fair.  This could also account for the errant notes, which are more present here than in the other sonatas, I noticed.

Congratulations on a beautiful second movement!  I think the end trills came off especially convincingly.

Walter Ramsey



Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #9 on: August 18, 2007, 10:17:10 PM »
PS What is up with the out of tune piano?


Walter Ramsey



Offline liszt-essence

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #10 on: August 19, 2007, 11:12:29 AM »
It's amazing.. Now i've listened carefully and I cannot say anything else than.. simply amazing some parts just blaze me away.

Offline ganymed

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #11 on: August 19, 2007, 02:23:48 PM »
Wow! thanks for calling my attention to this beautiful sonata !

very nice playing, you deserve a better piano, in any case.
"We can never know what to want, because, living only one life, we can neither compare it with our previous lives nor perfect it in our lives to come."

Milan Kundera,The Unbearable Lightness of Being

Offline andhow04

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #12 on: August 22, 2007, 08:26:25 PM »
dang! Well thanx for the msgs.  about the piano though i posted it in another. It is one of the best in town. it is a 9 foot german steinway with a terrific action, it is the piano of one of the big series and it has been played many time by shura cherkassky amongst others greats.  trust me, it is a top notch piano.  what happened was shortly before recording (becois i know the guy that used to be the concert director) they were moving it somewhere and they DROPPED IT. it was on its side and it fell onto its lid.  the lid broke and i had to record without a lid which made the sound brighter according to my engineer because it wasnt directed and was just lots of room noise in addition to piano sound according to him.  they only have one guy who is allowed to tune it and he wasnt around, and i wasnt allowed to hire anyone else to tune it. trust me, this is a top notch piano that can do anything you want, but i came at the wrong time.  i was stubborn and insisted to record on this piano even though all the problems, just because i love it that much.  there you have it!

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #13 on: August 22, 2007, 09:56:30 PM »
dang! Well thanx for the msgs.  about the piano though i posted it in another. It is one of the best in town. it is a 9 foot german steinway with a terrific action, it is the piano of one of the big series and it has been played many time by shura cherkassky amongst others greats.  trust me, it is a top notch piano.  what happened was shortly before recording (becois i know the guy that used to be the concert director) they were moving it somewhere and they DROPPED IT. it was on its side and it fell onto its lid.  the lid broke and i had to record without a lid which made the sound brighter according to my engineer because it wasnt directed and was just lots of room noise in addition to piano sound according to him.  they only have one guy who is allowed to tune it and he wasnt around, and i wasnt allowed to hire anyone else to tune it. trust me, this is a top notch piano that can do anything you want, but i came at the wrong time.  i was stubborn and insisted to record on this piano even though all the problems, just because i love it that much.  there you have it!



Ohhh I see, yeah of course. Argh I am maybe just too critical towards the piano :-[ :-[. But I hope it came not over as a critique on you. It was mainly meant as my thoughts about the piece, which tends to go beyond the scope of every instrument and the fact that you let the listener feel this is actually meant more like a compliment, so to say. :)

Offline andhow04

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #14 on: August 23, 2007, 03:43:49 PM »
Respect all in all! This is a piece that mercilessly shows everything of the performing individual, I think. So it's a certain risk to post a rec of it. I like the fast and furious approach in the Allegro part of the first movement. Yes it's fast and it's good like that though I heard several slower interpretations. "wrong notes? Don't care about them" (Scherbakov). The 32nd notes in the maestoso could be a bit sharper and more aggressive in my book, the double dotted eighths therefore a bit longer, it would be more dramatical and tragical and more like "french ouverture" and "pathetique" style ("pathetique" in the french sense of course) This movement definitely has a tendency to go beyond the scope of the instrument as well as of the performer and it's one of these pieces where I have the wish to explode and to have a piano with limitless dynamic options. The buildups are just *huge* and actually often not physically realisable, sort of. To burst out beyond the borders of life and then find another dimension in the second movement. I feel that you are struggling with these limits also, that you always want to go further than the instrument allows you to go. What piano? Sorry if you said it elsewhere already. respect also for the "boogie" variation (though I call it "ode to joy 2" rather than boogie :)), it sounds really swingy and though tender. The pp variation that follows could be more pp and more mysterious, that is where the actual transition begins, the process I could call "eversion" or so. You decided to stay more on a "bright joy" level rather than on a "dark glow" and "twinkly star" level, it's difficult to find words for this, as you surely know. I think this turn into an inward world is so much important for this movement, this going into the almost very silence. But I know how tricky this is and how much the sound of a recording or a room or a certain instrument can give a wrong impression. So take it with a grain of salt. The parts that come afterwards are very well played, but they could profit from this "turn inwards". I hope I make sense with all this. The last part also could benefit from an even more intimate and "metaphysical" touch, though it is already very tender. I hope this won't offend you, I think you are on a very good way and it's already very wonderful  :)

thanx for the commnts! AGREE About maestoso rhythm: a secret: i was nervous if i played the rhythm faster the notes would sound uneven, so i played it slower :) Not a good thing i know. gotta keep workin on that! its hard.  I cant understand everything u wrote, u are on a "higher plane" - but thanx for a close listen!

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #15 on: August 23, 2007, 08:14:39 PM »
thanx for the commnts! AGREE About maestoso rhythm: a secret: i was nervous if i played the rhythm faster the notes would sound uneven, so i played it slower :) Not a good thing i know. gotta keep workin on that! its hard.  I cant understand everything u wrote, u are on a "higher plane" - but thanx for a close listen!


I am sorry if what I wrote is not so understandable :-\ Perhaps you can point me out what exactly was difficult to get, if you wish.
In my subjective perception I am very much just trying to speak from a "plane" where more than 20 years of living (not practicing, I started eventually to practice it in 2002) with this very unique piece have brought me to. This particular piece is very much like a person to me. A person that I am in love with for a long time. It is something very special to me. And of course there might be a language problem too, since every attempt to write about something so delicate and intimate in a language that is not my native language is anyway difficult. :P :)

Offline andhow04

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #16 on: September 03, 2007, 05:46:24 PM »
thanx for the reply!  Just one ? here: when u say turn inwards, what do you mean in terms of the sound at the end of the variations?  do u mean slower tempo, for instance, or a different kind of sound.  interested!

Offline dmc

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #17 on: September 04, 2007, 11:49:27 PM »
I've only listened to the 1st movement so far and I love it !  Well done !

Beethoven's last two sonatas are my favorites.   On so many levels, he seems to have written more passion into those pieces (to my ears anyway).   Evidence of his ever maturing artistry perhaps ?  Who knows ?  I don't analyze them that much but I just know that they are terrific.  I have a CD of Alfred Brendel playing #31 in A flat (I forget the Op #).  Fabulous !

Just curious, were you able to get this piece in one take ?

Thank you for sharing !

Offline andhow04

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #18 on: October 03, 2007, 04:54:04 PM »
i did three takes of the 1st mvmt, but didn't edit them (wasnt allowed).  The second movement i just did in one take.  I think it is easier in a way to do, even tho its so long, becos every time you practice it, you end up playing it all the way thru, so that ends up not being a problem.

1st mvmt very hard because the changes are more sudden and also its harder to play... will have to do that one again someday!

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #19 on: October 03, 2007, 05:43:39 PM »
thanx for the reply!  Just one ? here: when u say turn inwards, what do you mean in terms of the sound at the end of the variations?  do u mean slower tempo, for instance, or a different kind of sound.  interested!


Sorry I didn't answer yet. I am still thinking and I want to give a better answer so I'd like to listen a few more times. But I didn't forget.

Offline opus57

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #20 on: October 04, 2007, 07:55:34 PM »
 :o Wo-ho-hoooo... *Spechless*

Very nice! Until now I liked Guldas interpretation the most, but I think, it's changing at the moment. You play just amazing! But... If I were you ( I'm obviously not, I know) I would stretch the "Allegro con brio ed appassionato"-part a very little bit and I would try to let the passages at the end of tact 19, 20 and 21 develop and fill the crossovers completely...

Absolutely awesome sonata, played by a virtuous pianist!

Greetings opus57

PS: I disbelieve, that Beethoven had a grand piano from Steinway & Sons or something... so don't count too much on the instrument...
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Offline rachfan

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #21 on: October 04, 2007, 09:46:57 PM »
Hi andhow,

Respect!!!  You've made a wonderful recording of this sonata, with or without the piano lid.  I could not have been more impressed.  Bravo!
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline dmc

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Re: Beethoven - Sonata #32, op.111 in c minor
«Reply #22 on: October 22, 2007, 09:09:00 PM »
Quote
PS: I disbelieve, that Beethoven had a grand piano from Steinway & Sons or something... so don't count too much on the instrument...

I've often wondered what Beethoven, Chopin et al would think if they could hear their works being performed on the concert grand pianos of today.  Scarlatti too (moreso because his works were written for harpsichord).  I'd like to think they would approve.  But who knows what they were thinking in their day...?