Faziolis

[forzaitalia250]

I had never heard of this piano before until I read through the thread on Bosendorfers. Could someone give me a brief rundown on what makes this piano special and unique compared to other high quality pianos?

(I got the impression from the other thread that it is a high quality piano...)

[thalberg]

Faziolis are Italian.  They get the wood for them from the same forest where Stradivarius got the wood for his violins--the valle de fiemme.  The person who started the company was intending to build the world's best piano, so he got all sorts of scientists and other people together to design the best possible piano.....(that's a pathetic account of the story....someone help me)

Anyway, Faziolis are of the highest possible quality, and like Bosendorfers, their preparation is impeccable. 

They are INSANELY expensive, costing well into the six figures for a 7-foot, and you probably have to give them your firstborn to get their biggest model--the 10 and 1/2 foot grand.

My friend at Colburn plays the 10 and 1/2 foot grand there sometimes and she hates it because she can't get enough colors out of it--she likes Hamburg Steinways best.  She says, though, that the piano is amazingly even--more even than a yamaha, to use her words--and the sound is the clearest sound you'll find anywhere.  So if you want clear sound and you're rich, get a Fazioli, I guess.   

I've never played one--I probably would like them.  This friend is a Steinway lover.

[thalberg]

Oh, and I forgot, the company has only been around for something like 20 or 30 years, and they build very few pianos.  I've never even seen one.

[ramseytheii]

I was lucky to play on many Faziolis (and briefly met Paolo Fazioli) in Perugia a few years back.  They are the Rolls Royce of pianos, because the materials are always top rate, and each one is hand-made.  The brand is becoming more well-known, as some pianists, such as Angela Hewitt, are "Fazioli" pianists, and have a special relationship with that brand.  She has a festival in Perugia where performances are only given on those pianos.

I also played on one at the Frankfurt Musikmesse, oh, two years ago?  It featured an unusual innovation: a fourth pedal designed to achieve an even greater pianissimo sonority.  The way it works was this:  depressing the fourth pedal lowered the keyboard itself halfway down, so that there was less space for the keys to be pushed down, and the hammer could not travel with as much force.  You could combine the fourth and third pedals to make a really special, very, very soft sound.

Walter Ramsey

[gerry]

Apologies for temporarily sidetracking the topic but considering the quality of the pianos being discussed here I think we should be using the term una corda for the left-foot pedal. While the fourth pedal on the Faz's may indeed achieve a pianissimo (the old uprights moved the hammers closer to the strings), the regular left-food pedal shifts the hammers to strike only 2 strings in order to achieve a much different effect that composers were very careful to stipulate when required. The overall sound may be quieter but it's secondary to the primary effect desired. A pianist with well-developed technique should be able to achieve a true pianissimo without the use of the pedal. Sorry, now you can return to discussing Faziolis.

[andyd]

In the UK, Fazioli, Steinway(Hamburg) and Stuart concert grands are all around the same price. Bechstein are also up there price-wise.

Like the big Fazioli, both Stuart sizes (290 and 220) also have a fourth pedal to achieve a ppppianissimo.


Having named four concert grands of comparable price, I must first say they are all superb makes of pianos.  I don't care what Larry Fines says, at this level of quality it really is nipicking to divide them into different tiers.
However the cabinet finishes of the Fazioli and Stuart are especially good!


Tone-wise, it is down to taste.  There is a recent thread on the Pianofacts forum asking how consumers can really dislike any high-quality piano that is properly in tune and prepped.
Maybe, maybe not, but given a choice I wouldn't buy a Fazioli bacause I prefer other pianos.
Faziolis overall have a very clear tone.  The bass and tenor I love and found them sweet and clear, but the top octaves have a cold quality because of their clarity.  I feel the same about the Bechstein D treble - also great pianos.

Chalk me up for a Steinway or Stuart ; but don't let me put you off a Faz or a Bechstein (or Bosie or Bluthner) if you have the £100k.


Regards

Andy 

[ramseytheii]

Apologies for temporarily sidetracking the topic but considering the quality of the pianos being discussed here I think we should be using the term una corda for the left-foot pedal. While the fourth pedal on the Faz's may indeed achieve a pianissimo (the old uprights moved the hammers closer to the strings), the regular left-food pedal shifts the hammers to strike only 2 strings in order to achieve a much different effect that composers were very careful to stipulate when required. The overall sound may be quieter but it's secondary to the primary effect desired. A pianist with well-developed technique should be able to achieve a true pianissimo without the use of the pedal. Sorry, now you can return to discussing Faziolis.

Good point and thanks for pointing out my laziness.  The Fazioli also can achieve a beautiful color with the una corda, with an extra layer of softness using the fourth pedal simultaneously.  I would imagine, since it would be difficult to coordinate it all with the sustain pedal, that this effect is especially good for Mozart or Bach, music where you can go long passages without sustain pedal.

Walter Ramsey

[richard black]

The Fazioli 228 (i.e. 228cm long) is my very favourite piano for accompanying singers on account of its unbelievably resonant bass. They've gone overboard on that to make it sound like a full 270cm-long instrument and while it may not be everyone's taste for solo playing, it makes the tone at the generally subdued levels of song accompaniment just gorgeous. I think, anyway!

As for action and stuff they're much of a muchness with other hand-built pianos of all the usual makes on account of using the same kind of design and materials, and of course much depends on who's set it up. Tuning stability is excellent in my experience.

[gerry]

Does the Faz build their own action or do they use something like Renner?

[gfiore]

They use Renner actions, but instead of Renner hammers they use Abel . The action geometry and key leverage ratios are very similar to current production Bosendorfers. Very reponsive almost intuitive actions.

[gerry]

Thanks g - how do Abel hammers differ from Renner? and while I have you online, you know from previous posts that I have a 1969 Bosie 225 - I'm just curious, have they changed any technology since then and, if so, how? I appreciate the depth of your knowledge on these subjects.

[gfiore]

 G. There have been some changes in these actions over the years when comparing your piano with today's production.
 Action specs have been refined. ex. Touch weight specs have changed. Down weights are a few grams lower, up weights a few grams higher. A change in wippen style, and action geometry.
 Your 225 is from a period where the level of craftsmanship at the factory was at an all time peak with regards to perfection of design and manufacturing standards.

[gerry]

Thanks again for that valuable information.
Gerry

[invictious]

Just to spam a bit, if I use the fourth pedal, will I get pianistimo?

(anyone get the joke? pianistimo, anyone? I think I spelled the name wrong..=\)

Back on topix. I have never seen Fazioli nor heard of the brand before, but judging from this thread, sounds like it seems to be the king of all pianos.

The 10 feet grand? Wow, that's one hell of a beast.

[gerry]

size matters

[pita bread]

Faziolis are too bright for my tastes. I prefer the sound the Fazioli with the una corda on.

[jlh]

I was lucky to play on many Faziolis (and briefly met Paolo Fazioli) in Perugia a few years back.  They are the Rolls Royce of pianos, because the materials are always top rate, and each one is hand-made.  The brand is becoming more well-known, as some pianists, such as Angela Hewitt, are "Fazioli" pianists, and have a special relationship with that brand.  She has a festival in Perugia where performances are only given on those pianos.

I also played on one at the Frankfurt Musikmesse, oh, two years ago?  It featured an unusual innovation: a fourth pedal designed to achieve an even greater pianissimo sonority.  The way it works was this:  depressing the fourth pedal lowered the keyboard itself halfway down, so that there was less space for the keys to be pushed down, and the hammer could not travel with as much force.  You could combine the fourth and third pedals to make a really special, very, very soft sound.

Walter Ramsey

I played on two 7-footers when Fazioli had a display at the WPPC in Atlanta in 1996.  I also got to meet and talk with Paolo Fazioli for a few minutes.  The pianos have the smoothest and most even action I think I've ever played on, even considering these weren't concert instruments. 

Would definitely love to have one to play regularly.  Anyone know how I can get my hands on $100k? lol

[quantum]

Would definitely love to have one to play regularly.  Anyone know how I can get my hands on $100k? lol

Make a picture of m1469 with a moustache, win some Thal burgers, get Tom Selleck to endorse the picture, sell on e-bay with Paris' approval of "this item is hot". 

Buy it now for $200k.


BTW anyone know any good places to try out a Fazioli in Ontario?