Single-finger trill

[tunneller]

Moonlight 3rd is fingered in two places as having a trill using the 4th finger only. I can't get anywhere near fast enough by lifting by 4th finger up and down.

The only way I can get any speed is to put my finger on the black note and let it slip onto the white, but it sounds pretty horrible, and lots of dead-time between hitting the white note and getting back up to the black.

Seems like these are two different ways of doing this single-finger trill. Should I try to speed up method (i) or reduce the gap time in method (ii) ?

Any excercises I can do??

Thanks, John

[zheer]

Moonlight 3rd is fingered in two places as having a trill using the 4th finger only.

 Really, cant see why.

[rallestar]

There's no way that the editor wants you to trill using only 4th. He probably wants you to use 5th as well, if I recall the place I think you're thinking of correctly :p

[amelialw]

I think you're supposed to start the trill with the 4th finger, so use 454545

[term]

A single finger trill. Wow. That would be truly impressive.
I don't think this is actally possible.

[franz_]

A single finger trill. Wow. That would be truly impressive.
I don't think this is actally possible.

I don't now why but this makes me laugh

And, you're very right.

[pianistimo]

maybe it's possible if you use a single finger from both hands.  both fourth fingers.

[jinfiesto]

Single finger trill is possible... I can do one. It's a trick that the Lhevine's shared with a couple of people.... Although. I don't think that editor was one of those couple people.. I only know a handful of people who know how to do one... It's not difficult, but I'm not really at liberty to share though.... It's really not that useful. You should just re-finger your music I'm not sure why you would want to do that in the moonlight third anyways.

[invictious]

I don't get why anyone would need singer finger trills unless you are bored.


Someone write an etude on it?

[jabbz]

Single finger trill on one note....right?

[tunneller]

This is trilling between C and C# with the "small" fingers while keeping thumb on a C an octave lower.

As you say, it could be the editor implies 45454545, but that one is pretty tricky too (particularly with the thumb stretched out onto the lower C).

My 45 trill has never been very impressive and after hacking away at it for a week, right now it sounds better if I play the C# with "4", slide down the note to get to the C with the "4" again and then immediately head back up to the C# again. Doesn't sound great though...

Guess I need to try harder with the 45 [or maybe a 4 on the C and a 3 on the C#? ]

[jinfiesto]

Try 3-5?

[jabbz]

3-5 is gorgeous, that fingering never fails.

[tocca]

This is trilling between C and C# with the "small" fingers while keeping thumb on a C an octave lower.

An alternative is to use 5454... instead of 4545... 5 on the C and 4 on the C#. Might make it more comfortable while holding the lower C with the thumb. 4-5 trills is a beast though, requires a lot of practise.
I'm not satisfied with my own.

[gerry]

A single finger trill. Wow. That would be truly impressive.
I don't think this is actally possible.

Is it anything like one hand clapping?

[tunneller]

My hand hurts. I've been trying all day with the various combos. Tocca's suggestion of 5 on the C and 4 on the C# seems to work the best. I've also gone through *many* YouTube's of this piece. None manage more than a C-C#-C on bar 125 before moving onto the next notes (so that is, say, a 5-4-5-3-4-5) vs my original 4-4-4-3-4-5.

The best players all seem to be doing 4-5-4-3-4-5 but they're so fast its hard to be sure.

[pianowolfi]

My hand hurts.

be careful!

None manage more than a C-C#-C on bar 125 before moving onto the next notes (so that is, say, a 5-4-5-3-4-5)

Nobody does more because it's very fast and you don't need more anyway.

[invictious]

4-5 trills are generally executed using more of the forearm movement rather than just moving your fingers. Either that, or ...don't know..

[mcgillcomposer]

Moonlight 3rd is fingered in two places as having a trill using the 4th finger only.

Do you have the Kinky edition?

[jinfiesto]

You're right. The best players do use an alternating fingering for that trill. Why? Because it changes the vibrato... It's a little more expressive, since its easier to shape alternating finger trills. Also, It makes the bottom note of the trill a little bit louder. It's not any easier, although it's more stable than a two finger trill. I agree with toca though, that you should use the five on the lower note. Although, that won't produce a very fast trill. I still hold to my 3-5 fingering. Although it'll be a little harder to hold the lower note. Would you post a picture of the passage? that would make it easier for us to give advice.

[term]

Single finger trill is possible... I can do one.

Tell us about it. I don't ask for a video, but it's easy to say this and not provide any information.
And i mean a real trill. I know it is possible to do it quite fast, but i have doubts it is possible to reach the speed of a trill.

[richard black]

It's a simple, but in practice pretty much useless, trick. Bend your 5th finger and put the last joint on two keys, sort-of sideways on. Now rotate your hand back and forth - you're doing a trill with one finger. It's useless because you can't really do anything with the other 4 fingers at the same time....

[cmg]

It's a simple, but in practice pretty much useless, trick. Bend your 5th finger and put the last joint on two keys, sort-of sideways on. Now rotate your hand back and forth - you're doing a trill with one finger. It's useless because you can't really do anything with the other 4 fingers at the same time....

Actually, one COULD do a trill using only one finger, but it would be a trill on only one note, repeated quickly.  Vocalists in Baroque repertoire -- if my memory serves me well -- use this device, known as the "Caccini trill".

[ramseytheii]

Actually, one COULD do a trill using only one finger, but it would be a trill on only one note, repeated quickly.  Vocalists in Baroque repertoire -- if my memory serves me well -- use this device, known as the "Caccini trill".

Actually, I don't want to know how vocalists manage a trill with one finger - and I hope to the heavens it's never been seen on stage!

Walter Ramsey

[cmg]

Actually, I don't want to know how vocalists manage a trill with one finger - and I hope to the heavens it's never been seen on stage!

Walter Ramsey

   Well, I couldn't have expressed that more clumsily. 

What I meant was that vocalists using this Baroque technique, simply open wide, thrust a tongue depressor down their throats and strum the vocal cords while intoning on one specific pitch.

No, wait . . . that's wrong, too.    Help me out of this, Claude.  You must know all about Caccini.

[Nightscape]

Single finger trill is possible... I can do one. It's a trick that the Lhevine's shared with a couple of people.... Although. I don't think that editor was one of those couple people.. I only know a handful of people who know how to do one... It's not difficult, but I'm not really at liberty to share though.... It's really not that useful. You should just re-finger your music I'm not sure why you would want to do that in the moonlight third anyways.

You're not at liberty to share?  Are you in the piano mafia or something?

[term]

You're not at liberty to share?  Are you in the piano mafia or something?

my thoughts exactly 

[jinfiesto]

Hahaha. No no piano mafia. It's just people get butt hurt when you go around showing off their little tricks. I'll make a recording if you want. It sounds different then a regular trill. You'll be able to tell. It's faster and more rythmic.

[ramibarniv]

Moonlight 3rd is fingered in two places as having a trill using the 4th finger only. I can't get anywhere near fast enough by lifting by 4th finger up and down.

The only way I can get any speed is to put my finger on the black note and let it slip onto the white, but it sounds pretty horrible, and lots of dead-time between hitting the white note and getting back up to the black.

Seems like these are two different ways of doing this single-finger trill. Should I try to speed up method (i) or reduce the gap time in method (ii) ?

Any excercises I can do??

Thanks, John

The marked finger is a suggestion for the first note of the trill.
No one in his right mind would suggest that you trill with one finger, that's a joke.
String and wind instruments can trill moving only one finger...
Due to the "Presto" tempo marking, a single turn (5 notes) would be sufficient.
Schnabel has 2 very good suggestions for all the cases where this type trill appears:
1) Use fingers 4 5 4 2 4 . I would also recommend trying 4 5 3 2 3.
2) Let go the bottom octave as soon as you play it. He marks it staccato.
Good luck,
Rami
https://ramisrhapsody.tripod.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/barniv
https://www.listen.to/rami

[jinfiesto]

Trilling with one finger is not a joke.. It's not difficult and it can be done... The trill I'm talking about is typically done with two but it's easily done with one. Listen, to argerich's recording of scarlatti dminor k141.

[mcgillcomposer]

Should I spoil the mystery or are you gooing to own up with an answer? I have no qualms about revealing the 'secret code', per se.

[jinfiesto]

By all means. Go ahead. I have no qualms about you revealing it either.

[rallestar]

Tell us! :O