Is virginity overrated?

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

Yes, another dreadful "overrated" thread, but this in my opinion is a one that can be addressed rather objectively. I don't see what the deal is with losing virginity. A virgin is someone who has never had sex. Masturbation, and ultimately ejaculation is losing virginity, so it would be hard to find a true candidate for such purity, whatever that would entitle someone to, excluding STD and pregancy.

[zheer]

. Masturbation, and ultimately ejaculation is losing virginity,

     


 

[debussy symbolism]

     


 

Well isn't it? Lets review the certain premises that usually are labeled as sexual. Coitus is ultimately masturbation. The act of coitus includes both excitement due to friction, hormone release, and ejaculation. All 3 of these factors are presented in masturbation.

[counterpoint]

The act of coitus includes both excitement due to friction,

ROFLMAO   

[jlh]

The act of coitus includes both excitement due to friction, hormone release, and ejaculation.

Yeah, you went there...   

[ahinton]

This thread is certainly overrated - by virtue alone of the fact that it has even been initiated...

Best,

Alistair

[debussy symbolism]

I guess the reason I started it was because I hear so much talk about losing virginity and preserving innocence. I just don't see how a virgin is any different than a non-virgin. It is merely psychological.

[jlh]

Are you debating losing your virginity and want validation?

[debussy symbolism]

No I am debating losing virginity in particular.

[jlh]

 

 

[prometheus]

Yes, it is. Virginity itself has no value at all.



Ooh, and just because virginity itself has no value, it doesn't mean you need to get rid of it immediately. Just ignore the concept of virginity completely.

[debussy symbolism]

Yes, it is. Virginity itself has no value at all.



Ooh, and just because virginity itself has no value, it doesn't mean you need to get rid of it immediately. Just ignore the concept of virginity completely.

Virginity doesn't have any physical value to it, but it does have psychological value which can be of use. If it wasn't for "virginity," many people would be having sex because there wouldn't be the "purity" factor involved. Otherwise the entire concept is purely psychological.

[soliloquy]

Sex is usually and generally overrated.

Virginity is not overrated because everyone knows it sucks already.

[lichristine]

virginity is overrated

sex is not

[prometheus]

If it wasn't for "virginity," many people would be having sex because there wouldn't be the "purity" factor involved.

Wouldn't that be good? Assuming people want to have sex for the correct reasons? What is this 'purity' issue anyway? How are people that have no sex more pure than people that do?



Ooh, and sex is overrated.

[jlh]

Wouldn't that be good? Assuming people want to have sex for the correct reasons? What is this 'purity' issue anyway? How are people that have no sex more pure than people that do?



Ooh, and sex is overrated.

Many people consider abstinance to be the best way to show your future spouse how much you love them that you were willing to wait for marriage.  I even heard a preacher describe marriage as metaphorically like giving a rose to the one you marry on your wedding day -- a full and vibrant rose meaning you've waited for your spouse, and each time you have sex before marriage, the petals fall off and wilt.  Then for your spouse you present your imaginary rose to them and it is meaningless.  That was what he was sayin... lol  Also, they consider that you can't get an STD if you abstain --which we all know is not necessarily true.  Also, fornication is a sin according to the bible, so you're pure from sin if you remain a virgin until marriage (according to christian beliefs).

Sex can be overrated, but with the right person it's not overrated. 

[debussy symbolism]

Wouldn't that be good? Assuming people want to have sex for the correct reasons? What is this 'purity' issue anyway? How are people that have no sex more pure than people that do?



Ooh, and sex is overrated.

Of course that is good, because naturaly people who abstain from sex are less likely to get involved in numerous sex related conundrums. The "purity" is a hypothetical notion of someone that hasn't had sex. I am sure its a Christian idea. Ironically, when a person has sex after they marry, it is considered okay.

I don't know if sex is overrated because I have never had sex.

[debussy symbolism]

Many people consider abstinance to be the best way to show your future spouse how much you love them that you were willing to wait for marriage.  Also, they consider that you can't get an STD if you abstain --which we all know is not necessarily true.  Also, fornication is a sin according to the bible, so you're pure from sin if you remain a virgin until marriage (according to christian beliefs).

Sex can be overrated, but with the right person it's not overrated. 

From what I hear many women are looking down upon male virgins. I am not sure exactly why, but I think it is because they assume that a virgin is inexperienced. A surprising amount of women do not get orgams with ease and sometimes fake them, as I have read. In that sense, sex is overrated because the media suggests that it can't go wrong.

[pianistimo]

i don't see why it is ironic to have sex after you marry.  and, i don't think chastity is taught in school as of equal value to contraceptives.  there are more reasons than just STD's.

for one thing - don't men assume a woman loves them if they are willing to have sex with them - and visa-versa.  and, don't men assume a kind of 'ownership' - whether they admit it or not and prefer not to see other men with 'their woman.'  so - it's really a big lie to say that virginity is nothing and yet consider the 'oneness effect' (which i think is mental and comes from God) to be important enough to shoot another man over or pound the girlfriend into oblivion.  or, as with others - murdering both parties.

if you want to see the worst in human nature - get involved in sexual indiscretion.  i think that's what most movies are based on.  the side of human nature that gets jealous.  why this jealousy?  could it be pre-programmed by God into men and women - for the properties it has for keeping a family intact.  unless, of course, all the consenting people are swingers or something - and really don't care.

should our society be made up of swingers.  nobody knowing who did it last and with whom? 

that is an animals mentality, imo.  civilization brings with it laws and responsiblity.  you don't have to keep the laws.  you don't have to be responsible.  but there are natural laws that just don't like being broken and i think people get the consequences by their own hand. 

what man is just enough to decide when another person is ready for sex.  it is a decision that is quite arbitrary and unthoughtful - if that other person might become mentally attached, physically dependant (pregnancy), or sick from really not liking the experience.  i think most women have an idealized form of love.  you can say all you want about 'it's just a casual thing.'  but, you can't really stay friends with someone you had sex with - and at the same time - if you don't love them - you're not going to follow through and marry them.

*note: for women - i think it's a bad idea to give a man anything but a kiss before you're married.  why? it's just not their place to take from you what they don't own.  own your own body.  the bible says when two people marry - then they actually give up their own wants and needs for the other - to maintain satisfaction.  this brings mutuality to the table.  each, in a manner of speaking, owns the other's body for the mutual benefit of both.

what if two people are young teens and can't get enough because parents come in between and only let them have it when they are gone on vacation.  are the two going to stay faithful to each other once they have experienced sex?  i don't know.  perhaps it depends on their maturity.  but, the other side of it - is that if they have a baby - the baby is a bastard unless they marry.  do you want your children teased or fatherless completely?  that would be sad.

[thalbergmad]

From what I hear many women are looking down upon male virgins.

Don't you mean "going down"?

Thal

[pianistimo]

i think marital sex is like a fresh stream of water.  if anyone else steps in, it gets muddy.

women who don't want the man to be a virgin are probably not virgins themselves, i would think.  just pick someone else who values it.  teens tend to think that everyone is thinking the same.  go to a church.  find someone who truly wants to combine love into the picture.  sex is merely an act.  but, it's not non-meaningful if one thinks about it day and night.  it's actually a form of control that each has over the other.  whomever is the horniest get hurt the most.  (possibly?) 

why not get married to the most attractive person to you and have sex 3 times a day?  10 times.  whatever!  then, you're not worried about 'will i get pregnant?'  'will i get an std?' (if you've both had blood tests and are faithful), and will they be with me when i'm old.  love is very beautiful.  to grow old together is the deepest form of love, imo.  to see your family around you and yourselves in your children. 

[thalbergmad]

It can be if you lose your aim and hit the wrong target.

Thal

[debussy symbolism]

i don't see why it is ironic to have sex after you marry.  and, i don't think chastity is taught in school as of equal value to contraceptives.  there are more reasons than just STD's.

It's ironic because people are blamed for having sex before the nuptual event, labelled as sinners, and then just after they marry they can all of a sudden have sex all they want. Aside from legal factors, how is a married couple in any way physically different than a non-married couple? The school doesn't need to teach chastity, it teaches the ramifications of sex. Schools need to give facts. It is religion that tries to impose chastity and the maxims of sin.

for one thing - don't men assume a woman loves them if they are willing to have sex with them - and visa-versa. and, don't men assume a kind of 'ownership' - whether they admit it or not and prefer not to see other men with 'their woman.' so - it's really a big lie to say that virginity is nothing and yet consider the 'oneness effect' (which i think is mental and comes from God) to be important enough to shoot another man over or pound the girlfriend into oblivion. or, as with others - murdering both parties.

No, men assume that if a woman is having sex with them, then they aren't going to have sex with any one else.

if you want to see the worst in human nature - get involved in sexual indiscretion. i think that's what most movies are based on. the side of human nature that gets jealous. why this jealousy? could it be pre-programmed by God into men and women - for the properties it has for keeping a family intact. unless, of course, all the consenting people are swingers or something - and really don't care.

Intrinsically, there is nothing wrong with having many sexual partners. The down side is of course moral considerations. Jealousy, as well as all other human emotions are natural to humans.

that is an animals mentality, imo. civilization brings with it laws and responsiblity. you don't have to keep the laws. you don't have to be responsible. but there are natural laws that just don't like being broken and i think people get the consequences by their own hand.

The natural law is to have sex with whoever you want. It is the way animals reproduce, and this type of promiscuous behaviour isn't controlled by logic. If no laws existed, and humans weren't conditioned to keep fidelity, most men and women would have many partners during their sexual career.

what if two people are young teens and can't get enough because parents come in between and only let them have it when they are gone on vacation. are the two going to stay faithful to each other once they have experienced sex? i don't know. perhaps it depends on their maturity. but, the other side of it - is that if they have a baby - the baby is a bastard unless they marry. do you want your children teased or fatherless completely? that would be sad.

If teens want to have sex, I see no reason to stop them. As long as they are educated in these matters, and know how to behave responsibly, I don't see how sex can harm them.

[thalbergmad]

go to a church. 

Yeh, you won't find any virgins there.

Thal

[pianistimo]

in the wild west - women married young (like 13 - 16) - but the consequence of having a baby at a young age is the inability mentally to take the pain.  would any father want to see this for his daughter?  that is why - imo - if men assume anything about a girl - it should not be to assume that her father won't shoot him on the spot if he messes her up.

i feel that the first loving relationship (without sex) is between a father and daughter.  if the father treats the daughter lovingly and she comes to know how a man should treat a girl/woman - will she settle for sludge.  someone who just wants her body?  no.  she'll expect the works.  she will expect that when she is tired - he'll cook dinner.  when she is ill - he won't force sex.  when she is happy - he'll be happy with her.  when she wants to talk - he'll be there.  when she is down - he'll be down.  it's not just all about sex.

what teenage boy can give her that?  men, imo, shouldn't even think about marriage until they are old enough to know about finances, full-time employment, communication, reliability, a bit of charm, sophistication, and to know how to love someone even when they are mad at them.  to grow up.

[thalbergmad]

*note: for women - i think it's a bad idea to give a man anything but a kiss before you're married.  why? it's just not their place to take from you what they don't own.  own your own body.  the bible says when two people marry - then they actually give up their own wants and needs for the other - to maintain satisfaction.  this brings mutuality to the table.  each, in a manner of speaking, owns the other's body for the mutual benefit of both.

What complete and utter tripe.

It makes sense to find out if a woman is any good in the sack before marrying her. It is best to find out before rather than after, to avoid possible problems.

You don't buy a car without going for a test drive do ya?

GET REAL WOMAN.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

when she is down - he'll be down. 

I agree with that.

Thal

[pianistimo]

God made men and women remarkably functional.  unless you marry someone who is a paraplegic - (and even then some are quite satisfied) - you're going to enjoy sex if you communicate well.  and, who - after marrying someone they find extremely physically attractive - cannot teach them what they like - even if they are terrible the first time.  typically, the first element of sex is communication anyways. 

as far as 'buying a car' - i think it's likely both check each other out when they are not looking - but leave something to the imagination.  what is a honeymoon for?

[jlh]

From what I hear many women are looking down upon male virgins. I am not sure exactly why, but I think it is because they assume that a virgin is inexperienced. A surprising amount of women do not get orgams with ease and sometimes fake them, as I have read. In that sense, sex is overrated because the media suggests that it can't go wrong.

Experienced women don't like having sex with virgin men because they can't last very long.  One or insertion for the virgin man and he's done... round over...time to wait for a recharge.  Virgin guys also have no practice with "going the distance", so the sessions are short or unfulfilling for the woman.  They also have no idea what they're doing besides what they may have seen on a porno video, which also leaves the woman unfulfilled because her needs are not being met with any adaptability by the guy.  

[pianistimo]

if both are in the same state of virginity - they'll grow in tandem.  get the skills worked up.  and they won't compare their mate to anyone else.

[thalbergmad]

God made men and women remarkably functional. 

Don't bring him into it.

I have never slept with a paraplegic so i cannot comment, but i have met women who were no good at sex and therefore there would be no point in marrying them.

You gotta try before you buy.

Only kissing before marriage is possibly your most absurd suggestion yet.

I BET YOU DID A LOT MORE THAN THAT.

Thal

[pianistimo]

what i did is none of your business.  but, i know what makes me happy.  it's knowing that i didn't go just for the sex.  i wanted the whole package.  even if 99% is sex in the first year or two. 

my husband and i had a very short engagement.  basically three weeks from engagement to marriage.   we wrote letters - i came to visit him and stayed at a girlfriend's house - we talked a lot and then decided that it was rather silly to make a year engagement.  so, we just got married.  we had little resources and a garden wedding - but to us it didn't matter.  and, we didn't have sex before we were married.  we just got married quick.  i think this part is very much controlled by the man and having self-control.  it shows care and love for the woman he is with and also a sense of how much he values her.

[thalbergmad]

if both are in the same state of virginity - they'll grow in tandem.  get the skills worked up.  and they won't compare their mate to anyone else.

Ridiculous, how many people get married when they are both virgins?

You got to play the field a bit first.

It is comparisons that help us to find the best partner.

Thal

[jlh]

It is comparisons that help us to find the best partner.

...or make you the best partner.   

[debussy symbolism]

Experienced women don't like having sex with virgin men because they can't last very long.  One or insertion for the virgin man and he's done... round over...time to wait for a recharge.  Virgin guys also have no practice with "going the distance", so the sessions are short or unfulfilling for the woman.  They also have no idea what they're doing besides what they may have seen on a porno video, which also leaves the woman unfulfilled because her needs are not being met with any adaptability by the guy.  

Yes but how many experienced women are out there? Furthermore, if a woman is contemplating sex with a guy, she obviously is attracted to him and sending him off just because he is inexperienced is silly. Unless of course they only want sex for sex's cause, which is of course understandable albeit unlikely, I don't think that any woman would want to pass on a possible relationship because the guy is a virgin.

[thalbergmad]

what i did is none of your business. 

Oh, so in other words you did.

You come on here suggesting to women to do no more than kiss before you marry, whilst you were working your way through the local football team.

You do not practise what your preach.

Thal

[debussy symbolism]

what i did is none of your business.  but, i know what makes me happy.  it's knowing that i didn't go just for the sex.  i wanted the whole package.  even if 99% is sex in the first year or two. 

Ha ha, I think you just divulged everything about what you did during that year or two.

[thalbergmad]

Ha ha, I think you just divulged everything about what you did during that year or two.

She follows "none of your business" with a description of what happened.

The woman is mad.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

they'll grow in tandem. 

I would not suggest that one to virgins, as it takes a lot of practise.

Thal

[jlh]

Yes but how many experienced women are out there?

A lot...

Furthermore, if a woman is contemplating sex with a guy, she obviously is attracted to him and sending him off just because he is inexperienced is silly. Unless of course they only want sex for sex's cause, which is of course understandable albeit unlikely

That's what teenagers think... once the girls get to be college age, watch out.  Many don't want relationships -- i mean, they're spending the best years of their life doing exactly what they want.  Why pass that up on a guy who doesn't know what he's doing?  I'd say once the girls get to be closer to 30 or so and thinking about careers and watching some of their friends get married they start to settle down.  

I don't think that any woman would want to pass on a possible relationship because the guy is a virgin.

Again, the category of women you're talking about are not in the majority.  You're right... many women wouldn't pass up on a guy because he's a virgin, but also consider that many virgins are not virgins by choice, but because no one wants to have sex with them.  

[debussy symbolism]

A lot...

  

I was afraid of that.

A lot...

That's what teenagers think... once the girls get to be college age, watch out.  Many don't want relationships -- i mean, they're spending the best years of their life doing exactly what they want.  Why pass that up on a guy who doesn't know what he's doing?  I'd say once the girls get to be closer to 30 or so and thinking about careers and watching some of their friends get married they start to settle down. 

Good point. Ultimately, the effectiveness of your sexual escapades are therefore decided when you are a teen, and if one was brought up in a more conservative surroundings, and for better or for worse, one isn't construed as what many people like to call "hot," chances are that getting laid is going to be tough going later in life. But I am sure that there are people that are past this and do find partners that value them and do not let a non-existent thing such as virginity stand in a way.

Again, the category of women you're talking about are not in the majority.  You're right... many women wouldn't pass up on a guy because he's a virgin, but also consider that many virgins are not virgins by choice, but because no one wants to have sex with them. 

This is again ironic, only in a more morbit sense. If women are not excited to be with a guy that can offer a good relationship because he is sexually inferiour to other guys that perhaps aren't the greatest being a good husbands, they are therefore practicing the laws of nature, that is, they go for the guy that has the best odds of impregnating them, although "impregnating" is implicit, as for the women it is mainly "sex."

[pianistimo]

actually, debussy symbolism, you are revealing more about yourself than i am.  for one thing - starting this thread means you are weighing the pros and cons of virginity.  to say that one was sexually attracted to their mates at the beginning of a marriage - is like telling an italian that they first liked spaghetti (or whatever they first ate). 

pasta and sex go together.  you have to eat to have energy.  you have to have sex to live.  food only gives you a half-life.  sex gives you a full life.  but, the thing is - if you're having guilty sex- what does that give you?  a headache, probably.  do you want all your women having headaches?

well, as i see it - if a man thinks sex is romance - he may as well walk off a plank. 

ps and thal - what is this about a football team?  i don't see how married sex is related?  i had one serious boyfriend before my husband.  he was not particularly religous.  my husband was the first person i loved deeply in the sense of us agreeing on most things (as well as religion and God).  also, he liked classical music - which meant a lot to me.  in the past, when i'd date once and find out the guy didn't like classical music - that was it. 

[jlh]

pasta and sex go together. 

Really?  I had no idea that was an option.  Might be a bit messy though... 

 

[debussy symbolism]

actually, debussy symbolism, you are revealing more about yourself than i am.  for one thing - starting this thread means you are weighing the pros and cons of virginity.  to say that one was sexually attracted to their mates at the beginning of a marriage - is like telling an italian that they first liked spaghetti (or whatever they first ate). 

 

Let me assure you that this thread is purely arbitrary and is for speculative reasons only.

pasta and sex go together. you have to eat to have energy. you have to have sex to live. food only gives you a half-life. sex gives you a full life. but, the thing is - if you're having guilty sex- what does that give you? a headache, probably. do you want all your women having headaches?

.

You don't need sex to live. That is absurd. Food now is necessary for human survival.

[mikey6]

wow, I thought Stevie would have jumped all over this thread (pun intended )

[debussy symbolism]

wow, I thought Stevie would have jumped all over this thread (pun intended )

He is most likely banned. What he did in the chatroom isn't moral and any kind of pardon is unjustifiable.

[matterintospirit]

Do what you feel like

[debussy symbolism]

What do you mean by that?

[zheer]

    There is a difference between F*Ckig, screwing, shaging, sex and love making.
People f*ck those they dis-like, screw those those they care little about, have sex with those who are available. However making love has a more long lasting and meaningful value.
    BTW   virginity is a sure way of keeping out of trouble, so its choice really for the vast majority.

[ahinton]

Were it not for virginity, Sir Richard Branson would have had to think up a different name for his empire...

Best,

Alistair