How to analyse and memorize CHopin Opus9#1 ? Share your experience

[laurent1234]

I might get more help here than on the students' corner...I surely hope so.

I want to be able to see through the Chopin Op.9 #1, and need your help:)
If I understand correctly people memorize pieces better when they use associations, and once they have enough association to write something that looks like a story then the piece is easier to practice and harder to forget. (see posts from Bernhard and Chang).

What is your story of the piece I mentioned above? How did you analysed the piece to be able to digest it and understand it from inside? I found it hard to see how the key would help me understand the chords that are used in the piece, but maybe I have too little understanding of horminzation techniques and your feedback would be appreciated.

>>> I hope somebody will share his story,
kind regards
laurent

[robert]

I know this piece by heart and has so for many many years. I am a lousy score reader but thankfully can memorize music rather easy. As you have read Chang's book, I believe I can refer to his division between different types of memory technique? Muscle memory, keyboard memory, music memory, theory memory and sight memory. My strong areas are muscle memory and theory memory. What you need to do is understand what you are good at and use your abilities. It is not for certain that my method would apply to you

But my story is that I mainly see that it is an A-B-A nocturne, that we have a very repetitive left hand in the A-part, a rather equal right hand melody in the A-part, a more variated left hand in the B-part while the right hand is a rather easy octave playing with right hand. The difficult parts are of course the rhythmically difficult passages as 11 over 6, 22 over 6 etc.

After seeing this, I make sure I learn the A-part's left hand so I can play it in my sleep so I never need to think of it. So to speak, force into muscle memory. This takes quite some times and at least a couple of 1000 repeats. But it is only a couple of seconds long so it did not take very long. Then I learn the difficult parts the same way, just force them into memory playing both hands. It will take at least a month or perhaps several before you can do this in your sleep. Don't practice it more than 30 minutes per day. It is better to sleep between the sessions. When this is learnt, you have completed 80% of the piece and from here, I just playing the rest right through until I got it right. I removed the sheets as soon as possible and just had them turned around on the grand and checked only if needed. I rather guess and use my musical memory than turning the sheet around and check (that is what the lazy man does). 

From the first time I succeeded to play it all through from memory until I knew that I was always able to play it from memory (performance level) took about another month. The entire process took about 3 months.

Perhaps a thing or two here can help you. Good luck!

[laurent1234]

Thank your post!
I think you have a little bit of the same training habits as I do, but is 'n there a problem with high reps like you do? at least in me the build hand memory and they do not allow Mental Practice. Plus I would like to understand the inner structure of the piece and its harmony. I am sure that there is a way to understand why the left hand does what it does based on chord analysis and harmony analysis...

I would like to find a bad by bar explanation of the Nocturne very much like Chang does in his book ( he takes Bach invention #8 I think).

In fact if anybody could advise a book that analyses pieces that would be great.

Below you have an example of piece analysis. Clinhk on the link and go to the section L.
https://members.aol.com/kwanmc/memory.htm

best regards
laurent

[robert]

Of course there is an inner structure as in any Chopin composition. We all know how careful he was designing his works. I will not write down all details but I can begin and give you a start.

From the first bar, you can see that he flats out the Ab and in a Bb-flat minor harmony, that means that he uses the harmonic minor scale instead of the natural and that repeats many times. In the left hand, the first pattern is a natural Bb-flat minor pattern while the second pattern is a F7 major pattern. If you press a B-flat minor chord followed by a F-major 7 you will hear what I mean. I always think in terms of chords as I am very used to play and improvise from chords (former pop/rock keyboard player). This is really not unique but a very common combination where a minor chord followed by a major 7 beginning on the quint (5 note of the first chord) of the first leads back to the initial minor again. There are tons of music written this way. This passes on until bar 6 where he does also a very common trick and modulates to the parallel D-flat major key in bar 6, which too is a very common trick and he makes the mind which for it with the right hand's 3 Db in bar 5. This builds a tension and there are 2 solutions from this pattern. The first as he does in bar 6 and the second which he does in bar 13 where he modulates to the major key of the initial, so to speak Bb-flat major. And this is pretty much it for the A-part (and the repeating A-part). Really nothing revolutionary but rather quite standard.

What makes this piece so popular (in my idea) and truly wonderful is his extreme capability to build the tension within a simple structure and harmony.

[laurent1234]

That's it!
thank you Robert for taking the time to explain  some of the internal structure. I knew there was one, but know too little about chord and harmony to actually find the structure.

Now I would not want to take too much of anybody's time, but for those of you who have studied piano in college i am sure that there are books or notes about various pieces, including the B part that Robert mentioned. Can anybody advise me any good resource where I could find  explanation similar to what Robert gave?

You see RObert you have enough experience to describe the structure but also explain that it is a commonly used trick (Robert writes :"it is common trick to play a minor chord followed by a major 7 beginning on the quint "). For me what you wrote is invaluable. I could play the nocturne 9 really well in competition but i never understood a damn thing. I dont want to make the same mistake that will lead me to the same frustration that will lead me again to stop piano

now I know a lot of it about music theory. But like a language I can not start with a grammar book. I need to take a conversation or a song that I like, look at the lyrics and try to understand what they mean and then understand the underlying grammatical rules.

Again thank  you for your help. I need to bother you and other again because I need the whole piece, and also a book that would help me get to where you are without the chance to have a good teacher around me.  In fact I hate to bother you but IT IS a defining moment in my life:) I can not behave as if it was just a casual question at stake

thank you forehand
laurent

[robert]

I am going away for a week from tomorrow and will probably have a lot to catch up with when I come home. But after that, I should be able to make a full layout of the piece unless someone else does it before me.

[laurent1234]

Thank you robert,
 I am pretty sure that after having a couple if well analysed pieces i am going to be able to do it myself, but really at the moment of time your an other's help is deeply appreciated
kind regards
laurent

[laurent1234]

I am going away for a week from tomorrow and will probably have a lot to catch up with when I come home. But after that, I should be able to make a full layout of the piece unless someone else does it before me.

Dear Robert,

i am sorry I have to message you on that, but I have honestly been trying hard to analyse the Opus and it takes ages. I know little about chords, though i am learning at the moment. i know I should ask a teacher to do that for me, but I don't have one. If you could make the layout of the piece that would be most helpful. At the moment I am spending so much time trying to analyse and getting nothing that I am tempted to go back to the old way of just reading the sheet...which I know will in the end leave me to abandon piano again. I need to form a new habit of analysing pieces but without help ( in this case without your help) I feel that I won't be able to do it.

thank you forehand Robert. if anybody wants to help me out of course you are welcome, i just thought he did exactly what I needed the last time.

again thanks
laurent

[pianistimo]

here are some good questions that a theory teacher poses for this particular piece:
https://www.uwlax.edu/Music/theory/companal336.html

also, i read that chopin is elongating the opening theme (as compared to field nocturnes) and uses it to his advantage to prepare one for a very long middle section.  he was always changing things slightly in terms of form - to create one of a kind forms.  kind of like sculpture.  you have an ABA form, right?  but then it's not really a 'B' section as one would think - but a sort of fantasie plopped right smack in the middle of a nocturne.  why not call it a nocturne fantasie.  that's my take.  maybe i need to look at it some more.

what's all the more confusing is that the middle section sounds more like a nocturne than the beginning - and truly - the piece seems to begin like a fantasie actually.  ok.  so we'll call it a fantasie - nocturne fantasie - fantasie ? well, that's my take.  the beginning has several extremely high notes whereas the middle section (nocturne/fantasie) takes the lower 'lonely shepherd boy voice.'  the transition back to the beginning seems so 'simple' and yet it is extremely complex.  i think it starts when the high notes are introduced again (much earlier than the one or two bars before the A section begins again.  also, this last section is cut short - isn't it?  but, then a little codetta is added on?  so elegant.

[gyzzzmo]

I just play it often and then usually i can play it without sheetmusic :S

[dora96]

G'day

I am learning this piece  at the moment, it is just wonderful that I can read all valuable comments. I find that  the left hand is harder to memorize because there is various form to member and I find that bit confused sometimes. The middle part, how to play without too boring, The speed where should I increase or decrease?  My teacher said to play it more romatic  more dreamy. However, I feel I play it like a  dead warm up. Can anyone advise me? Can anyone give me the background and period about this piece. Why, how and what Chopin wrote this piece. This is the first Nocturne, is there any special from other Nocturne, theme?  Is there any history and story about this song prompted Chopin to compose this piece. Anything I would appreciate very much !!

[dan101]

No matter what composer or piece you are playing, at least 90% of you memory comes from touch (tactile). The remainder comes from hearing the composition in advance in your head and/or visually seeing flashes of the score mentally.

The bottom line is to practice the piece through as many times as possible, preferably in an error free manner.