Conductor of da Orchestra

[invictious]

Yes, that's it, after speaking to my orchestra director, she has agreed to let me try conducting in the second semester of the school year (after Christmas).
I have been in the school orchestra for 6 years, and in those 6 years, I have joined so many ensembles, it seems almost that my life is all into music. I have been the principal cellist in orchestra, then recently I was the percussionist 

now I am back as Principal Cellist, and I just feel so glad to be back home. She said that I will get a few chanced to conduct the school orchestra, but I don't know for any performances.

There are a few questions:
1) I am just a student, the director is having a difficult enough time to get the members to watch and follow her, how can I ensure that I can exert authority over the orchestra, so they will watch and follow me?

2) This will be my first official conductor experience, hints and advice?

[pianistimo]

knowledge is it's own power.  i've heard this question from a lot of people - because supposedly it's important. but, really - to tell you the truth - i don't think it is.  personally, i think they will naturally follow your lead if you set a fast pace.  typically, they are 'blase' until you start whipping around making the three fastest orchestral members realize they are but pawns in your scheme.

this means planning ahead.  read two or three books (perhaps not the entire book - but portions) on conducting.  study the scores voraciously.  and conduct them ahead of time with a cd/record.  also, just as with master chorales - you can get people on your side by giving them chores to do.   one might be dividing the group into sections for the first 20-30 minutes and providing names of section leaders.  this 20-30 minutes is yours to work with the weakest section.

then, remind the groups that for most of their questions - the section leaders will answer.  for the direction of the group in rehearsal - you are there to answer only relevant questions to the direction of the piece.  (but, you can add in little suggestions occasionally esp for your section - cello)  this will give them greater respect for you - because you are giving them respect for knowing their own instruments and/or learning from section leaders.

take the section leaders before rehearsal and tell them what you would like to see done - but give flexibility to them to do it within their styles. 

*i've only taken one class in conducting - but i thought it was great fun.  i had the opportunity to watch a fine conductor who directed both a master chorale and orchestra and jazz band, i think.  what i noticed is that he had absolutely every minute packed and  nobody had time to act up. 

this was his order of things in chorale:
roll call - (he just said names and you replied if you were present).  absences were not looked upon favorably.  i'm not sure if he had a three strikes and you're out or not.

section leaders take their sections to different band rooms.  agreed upon time to meet again.

he would immediately start discussing the music - minimal jokes (people hate that if over done).  but, a joke certainly lightens up the group - so it helps.  the effects that you want in every area of the score (tell them to get their pencils out and mark it as you tell them).  once the score has been reviewed - then rehearsal starts.  make the tempo as fast as they can handle. that will keep them quiet. 

 

[invictious]

What an honor to have dear pianistimo to reply to my thread! Your post was infinitely helpful, and I have certainly learned by reading this post.

Thanks you again, pianistimo, or enlightening me and bring me to the light. The most I have done is just conduct to a recording with a full score, and that drive..to make music sound it the way I want...


Thanks.

[thalberg]

You're right.....how do you get them to watch and follow you?  Be like George Szell.  If people were talking during rehearsal, he would slam his hand down on the podium and shout "SILENCE!"  Even better if you can do it with a German accent.

[pianistimo]

glad to help!  thalberg might be right - but as you mentioned a bit of worry from doing this to peers - i'd just play the 'i'm smarter than you' card.  keep the pace going so fast they have to work to keep up.  and ask questions to a person at breaks in the music.  like, 'so and so' - what is the key at measure 50?'  stuff like this can make them fearful without any big noises.  always have the question lead into what you are discussing and go forward with it. if the person doesn't know - don't put them on the spot - but open it up to the next person or the entire group.  you'll soon get to know who knows what.  then, you use those people to teach the duds.  (i noticed that he didn't like to waste time - so usually asked people he knew could tell the answer.  you could choose a few friends and tell them ahead if you wanted to - to get the ball rolling.  then, later ask more and more people as they then know this will happen).

something else i found awe inspiring in this particular conductor is that he also knew a great deal about the piece and the composer.  he would start out by telling us a bit about each new piece and/or the composer.  it loosened up the group.  he also didn't do it for very long.  maybe three minutes at most (including a joke sometimes).

suggestion boxes are nice, too - because then you can get peer review. 

[invictious]

Thank you very much thalberg, I will sure try the German accent when I shout 'SILENCE!'

pianistimo, thank you again for your ideas. I personally like the idea about asking questions during musical breaks, it keeps them engaged and make them somehow watch you when they all are playing.

Hmm, time to include a few instrumentalist stereotype jokes?

Still slightly worried about them, not following your during conducting, perhaps I need a stronger aura of authority? (sharpened baton edges seem to work)

[pianistimo]

click your baton a couple of times - stopping them.  make sure they know you won't let confusion reign.  if they don't start together or are not following your tempo - do it again.  pretty soon they'll catch on.  i don't think it has anything to do with large movements, either.  some of the best conductors stay right in front of their body most of the time -and turn their body to one side or the other to face the section they are bringing in.  the less elegant a conductor - the more he is flailing arms, imo.  but, you have to have the tip of the baton visible to all.  if you are short - you'll have to raise your hands over your head.

neeme jarvii might be the exception to this rule.  he uses many parts of his body to conduct - but makes it look fluid.  it seems to relax him and keep him going for long rehearsals.  i've never seen anyone conduct the way he does.  but, he's still elegant.  for instance, he might use a shoulder twitch for a beat.   he's very funny - but everyone knows the beat.  once, he used his entire head - leaning it out and listening for about 10 measures - but he did that movement ON the beat.  how someone does this?  i don't know.  maybe a dance class combined with a conducting class?

[invictious]

I am nearly 5'10'' or so, so height won't be a problem.

I have watched Neeme Jarvii a few times, and his movements are indeed unusual, yet they are rather meaningful, but as a beginning conductor, I think the basics should be of focus, as you said:

1) maintaining a steady beat
2) being able to familiarize self with self inside out
3) cueing people in correctly at the right time
4) maintaining authority and not let that second violinist overrule
5) not look idiotic

I have been practicing at home, conducting some symphonies by Beethoven and Overtures by Mozart (they are really really good), listening to them in my mind. So far so good.


(I once forgot to cue in the trumpet in my orchestra, he came in two bars late, stupid trumpetist)

[thalberg]

(I once forgot to cue in the trumpet in my orchestra, he came in two bars late, stupid trumpetist)

It is imperative that you handle the situation appropriately so it does not happen again.  Take a lesson from rap culture.  You go up to the person who has done something wrong and snap your fingers three times in their face, in a circular motion.  I just learned how to do this on Tuesday. 

[pianistimo]

this is too funny.  but, honestly - i know i would never make a conductor (no matter how much i like it).  invictious - you might be able to learn it all quickly.  for most people they can only do two or three things at a time.  being a conductor means you can do about 10 things at a time. 

i enjoyed the allentown band leader this summer.  he's very low key and just basically moves like leonard bernstein did.  really 'into' it sometime s- and 'into himself and the music in his head' at other times.  like you could snap your fingers three times in front of his face and he'd still be going with this sensitve and beautiful part of the score until it was completed.  a sort of reveling in the music.  i think this appreciation of the music itself is much more important than worrying about the second violins.  they'll catch on if they get enthused about the music.  (*yes.  i know - my ramblings).

[invictious]

This time after replaying the symphony, I cued in the trumpetist in time, yes, it was very effective. The moronic bassonist, however, no matter how dramatic my cues, just wouldn't come in on time. I had to practice the 5 bars over 10 times before he got it.

Pianistimo, I am very sure you can be a brilliant conductor, for 2 reasons
1) you are a female
2) you are pianistimo

Just being like that, will make you goddess-like. This is after Christmas though, so I guess I will continue practicing alone with "Invictious' Symphony Orchestra"

Yes, I am sure snapping fingers three times in their face is going to help a lot, but I am even sure that a sharpened baton is more effective, especially when you make scraping noises and poke around.

[pianistimo]

why does being female give me an edge on conducting?  i've seen some terrible women conductors.  one was (should i say it?) - the local sweet middle school choral conductor.  she is really nice - but waves her hands like she is saying 'bye bye' to the outer portions of the choir.  sort of like she could take off flying - but never does.

being myself doesn't give me any more or less of an edge either, i think.  only playing the piano (excepting an interlude with playing the flute for a year) makes me pretty much oblivious to the demands of any other instrument.  i've never really seen any percussionist get into major trouble with a conductor, though.  as you say - it's usually bassoonists or clarinetists.  well, and trombonists.  they must be the worst (excepting saxophonists).

tip of the day:  put a rubber band around your middle finger and attach the other end around your elbow.  then attempt to conduct and naturally let your hand come up quickly after the downbeat. there are certain tricks to this trade.  the other one is filling your coffee cup with alcohol. 

[invictious]

Thank you for your reply, and how it is filled with humor just makes me want to give you a big big big big big hug.

(throws big bottle of white wine in pianistimo's general direction)'

I can't wait till my time comes. In fact, the director even offered me to compose a piece and conduct it myself for a few performances here and there! Really can't wait those months.

What I meant about being female is they can multi-task. They can swing a baton in rhythmic motion while catching a fly.

I will be sure to fill my coffee cup with alcohol, though finding alcohol to add is a problem. I can add vodka....but I won't know where to get those alcohol which you drink, as in pure alcohol form.

[pianistimo]

this is very very exciting, invictious!  to compose something for the entire orchestra as well as conduct?!  she must really appreciate your contributions already.  i wonder if there are any videos or cd's to buy that teach you as you go about conducting?  seems that if there isn't - there should be. 

perhaps a quickie class - online - through on of the major universities?  do they have those in conducting?  whatever you do - you're going to have to do it before december.  the good thing about a class is getting the 'real' practice in so your movements are second nature. 

when i read about conducting, it's always a bit of struggle to understand exactly what they are describing in movement.  seeing someone do it sounds better.  i'll keep a look out for some classes.  temple university is cool.  indiana state is another good one. 

[pianistimo]

i happened upon this seminar (which is taught in english, btw!)  not sure the prerequisites.  sounded interesting - although a bit on the expensive side probably.
https://www.philharmonie.com/en/klas_info_en.htm

am still looking for the basic stuff online or thru indiana state. 

in january, rossen milanov gave a FREE masterclass at the kimmel center here in philadelphia.  that was jan 20, 2007.  not sure if there are anymore masterclasses like that planned. 

here's one of the last memories of a great conductor (excepting he's not conducting - but playing the cello here) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E

as compared to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHrPjQjhodM

[pianistimo]

magicscore maestrohttps://www.soft32.com/download_4127.html can be downloaded (scroll down) as a trial version here:

[invictious]

Wow Pianistimo, I can also literally send you a bottle of the best champagne I can find here in Hong Kong.

One simple question though, I personally feel more comfortable with holding the baton on the left hand, but it seems that even left handed conductors use right hand to hold the baton, is it some sort of a tradition or is it a must?

The Rostropovich playing the Prelude by Bach was always one of my favorite recordings of that piece, no matter how overplayed. MY second fav would be Yo-yo Ma's. That conducting video you put up there is just...I'll pretend that's a joke.

Thanks pianistimo!