Fundamental principles of practising piano

[gilad]

I know that C.C Chang has written a book with a title much like the one I have used to name this thread. This thread has nothing to do with that book( :

Practise makes perfect, but most people myself included have no idea when starting out how practise should be conducted.
Practise will often be eratic and disorderly, and in my case until recently a clockwork repetition or errors, over and over again.
What works and what doesn't? Why do some practise methods lead to success and others to failure?

Can we make a list of principles that should be adhered to in order to get the most out of practising and to achieve our full potential?

Please add, debate...etc.

[counterpoint]

When practising, one has to be fully concentrated and fully relaxed.

This is the greatest problem, because it's sort of a contradiction. Many people tense up when they try to intensify concentration - and they get very careless, when they try to relax. So the main goal of practising for me is to be able to be fully concentrated and fully relaxed at the same time.

[term]

I'm probably giving you the least helpful answer when i say that you have to find out yourself how to practise best.   
Some suggestions posted on this forum worked out for me, some didn't. After a time, i found out that my way of pratising - which others might call chaotic and ineffective - worked out for me because it produced good results in little time. First it didn't, but after some time it did.
I don't want to say that there are not some basic principles, but i want to emphasize that practising is a very individual thing because learning is.

I wouldn't even say that intense concentration *at all time* is a necessity, because there is *sometimes* benefit in repeating like a machine as the movements become very habitual. But that, too, depends on the individual person.

[ramseytheii]

Your question for me is too general to formulate a good response, but hopefully nightingale will come around and post a bunch of Bernhard links, because I am sure he talked about this somewhere in his many thousands of posts.

The one thing I think is important, and I here take concentration for granted, is that all practice has to be essentially creative.  Practicing should be an exploration of the music such that you reinvent it as something personal over and over again, searching for the best way to align your personal feelings with all of the instructions given to you.

To this end there shouldn't be any principle like, all sixteenth-note passages should be practiced in groups & rhythms; or all passages should be repeated 3 times; or whatever they have people do these days.

Creative practicing depends on the goal: to make the piece part of you forever.  To reach that feeling you have to experience a piece in many different ways, so you are as familiar with it as you are with a person, with whom you have experienced many different things and emotions, and still remained close.  When you learn music in this way, it is true ownership: you own the music as you own no other object.

There's a lot to say on this subject but that's just for start.

Walter Ramsey

[franzliszt2]

Structure. Knowing what you want and how to get it in as little time as possible.

[pianochick93]

I generally go through technical work (scales, arpeggios etc.) and then go on to practicing my pieces. I will work on each piece for about 15 minutes, then play what I have worked on.

I don't get distraction free time, because the piano is in the loungeroom, and the evil siblings are in there watching tv/throwing things at me attempting to distract me. In a way it builds up resistance to distraction, I am at the point where my sister can fling hairbands at me, and I will barely notice.

If someone starts talking to me and I answer though, that breaks up the entire process.

[counterpoint]

Structure. Knowing what you want and how to get it in as little time as possible.

How can you know, what you want, if you have not tried out a lot of different possible ways of playing the piece?

"get it in as little time as possible. "

Oh yes, people have so little time and there are so many pieces to learn...   

I mean - learn only one piece for a whole year, and you will get a totally different view on music!

"I learned this sonata in 2 weeks and that concerto in 3 days" - this sort of arrogance against music makes me really angry.

[anna_crusis]

Practise makes perfect, but most people myself included have no idea when starting out how practise should be conducted.
Practise will often be eratic and disorderly, and in my case until recently a clockwork repetition or errors, over and over again.
What works and what doesn't?

It evolves as the years go by. Personally I think that it's incredibly important at first to learn and practice all the scales, chords, arpeggios etc. People always assume that will be boring but if you set yourself weekly challenges (to learn an Eb major scale, for instance) then it actually becomes highly enjoyable and addictive. You can then take what you've learned and use it to great effect in practicing actual pieces, and especially in improvising or playing by ear.

I think the important thing is to have a goal every single practice session - not a great, unachievable goal but just some little thing or some touch of detail. Your mind really needs to be fully engaged and focused on something that interests you. Mindless playing through your repetoire does little or nothing other than leave you feeling fatigued and bored.

For me practice is a daily adventure. I really love it and can't do without it.

[franzliszt2]

How can you know, what you want, if you have not tried out a lot of different possible ways of playing the piece?

"get it in as little time as possible. "

Oh yes, people have so little time and there are so many pieces to learn...   

I mean - learn only one piece for a whole year, and you will get a totally different view on music!

"I learned this sonata in 2 weeks and that concerto in 3 days" - this sort of arrogance against music makes me really angry.

eh? If I have a tricky passage I want to solve the problem fast! Not go oh gosh, I have a lifetime, never mind! If I love a piece of music, I want to learn it.

Why even play a piece if you don't know what you want? It's a little pointless isn't it. Of course your opinion will change over years, experiences etc...but you have to know what you want at the present time! How can you ever expect an audience to listen to you if you play not knowing what you want to express?

In saying as little time as possible I mean being efficient with your time. If you deal with the problem instantly, and in the correct way, you will spend a lot less time on it than if you try futile methods on it. Most people practice 12 hours a day and gain nothing because they don't solve problems. They believe that the long hours will solve it.

Why do you call it arrogant to say I learnt a concerto in 3 days a sonata in week? It's not arrogant at all. If somebody learns a concerto in 3 days good for them, it shows they are passionate about the work (or have a deadline)...and also that they practice efficiently.

Learning fast also widens the repertoire. My aim in life is to play all the music I love...and I know that I will NEVER achieve that in 90 years or whatever..but I'll give it a damn good shot, and the only way to do this is to practice properly.

[counterpoint]

Why even play a piece if you don't know what you want? It's a little pointless isn't it. Of course your opinion will change over years, experiences etc...but you have to know what you want at the present time! How can you ever expect an audience to listen to you if you play not knowing what you want to express?

Okay, I understand what you mean. You're right, one needs to know what one wants to be and to express.

My point is, that it is also important, what the composer wants, and not to forget what the piece itself "wants". A composition is not a dead construction, but a living being (in my view), which has to be treated with much sensibility and open-mindedness. It grows with time, and it should not be treated too rigid.   

Why do you call it arrogant to say I learnt a concerto in 3 days a sonata in week? It's not arrogant at all. If somebody learns a concerto in 3 days good for them, it shows they are passionate about the work (or have a deadline)...and also that they practice efficiently.

I can't learn that fast - and even if I could, I would never play a piece of music, on which the composer worked for months, in public just alla "I learned it yesterday, here it is" 

Learning fast also widens the repertoire. My aim in life is to play all the music I love...and I know that I will NEVER achieve that in 90 years or whatever..but I'll give it a damn good shot, and the only way to do this is to practice properly.

Okay, I understand your intention. But I see also the danger, that you might scratch only the surface of the music, if you learn too fast.

[pianistimo]

i do that with impunity with schubert.  i don't know why.  perhaps i am arrogant with his music?  how much can you do with basically a vocal line and accompaniment.  it's not like you're going to program an entire schubert recital (speaking to self).

and, yet - i agree with you counterpoint.  that music takes time to mature.  you can't play a piece half as well as 3 months from now - and certainly not the same after a year.  how about 10 years (coming back to it now and again).  it's like wine (hopefully).  of course, some pieces i can't even remember after 10 years and have to start from scratch again.

ok.  my fundamental principles are:

1. study the score
2. mark the accidentals in - if you keep forgetting one or two.
3. mark important parts (harmonies - ideas - melodies - whatever - that make it sound good to you).
4. think of a story or a 'vision' of the piece.
5. play with feeling (without this - why play).
6. don't worry about mistakes all the time.  get through as much of the piece as you can.  even if you are slowly sightreading the last 3 pages.  get through it.  every day.  three times at least.
7. memorize from the start- but use the music later to gain an appreciation of where the music is going.  focus on the climax and build everything to that point - and 'waste away' from there (unless it's at the end - like some pieces of liszt on the last page).
8. read about the composer/piece - analyze the music (doesn't matter whether superficially or in-depth - do a little each day).


agreed about practice and relaxing, too!  it should become like swimming to avid swimmers.  you jump in. swim around. enjoy yourself.  dry off - jump in again later.  the more times you come back to the piano during the day - the better you feel.

[gilad]

Nice answers. thanks peeps.

[shingo]

6. don't worry about mistakes all the time.  get through as much of the piece as you can.

This is very good advice, I find that doing this helps me over come a massive psychological barrier, because by playing through the whole piece you know you can get to the end and that every note has been played, it is just a matter of getting it smoother and more stable. Its hard to always do though as at first I wanted to have a certain section perfected before I moved on which often made it harder to practice the piece as I never felt I progressed as much/fast as I would have liked.

Also I think it is very important to practice at a slower tempo first. I find this very hard to do as often I am excited and want to go full speed straight away, which nearly always ends in chaos. Best to take it slow and then gradual speed up.

[gilad]

This is very good advice, I find that doing this helps me over come a massive psychological barrier, because by playing through the whole piece you know you can get to the end and that every note has been played, it is just a matter of getting it smoother and more stable. Its hard to always do though as at first I wanted to have a certain section perfected before I moved on which often made it harder to practice the piece as I never felt I progressed as much/fast as I would have liked.

Also I think it is very important to practice at a slower tempo first. I find this very hard to do as often I am excited and want to go full speed straight away, which nearly always ends in chaos. Best to take it slow and then gradual speed up.

My biggest weakness was that I never watned to slow it down.

My next weakness is my reluctance to move on froma section that has not been perfected. So I will land up practising with no motivation, feeling like i';m failing, and never moving forwards. My teacher said i have to tun over the page after playing familiar parts eventually!!!!

[gilad]

Hi everyone. I came across this tonight and Im wondering if anyone has ever used it or if you think it looks like a good product.

It looks pretty impressive to me. But whats your experiences or opnions?

[counterpoint]

Hi everyone. I came across this tonight and Im wondering if anyone has ever used it or if you think it looks like a good product.

It looks pretty impressive to me. But whats your experiences or opnions?

I like this video very much. For my taste he uses the word "arch" a bit too often  but his playing looks very natural and has a good sound. I like, how he is sitting at the piano. I will try to sit at the piano like this 
The thing I liked most is his explanation, that in melodic lines short notes are played even shorter and long notes are played even longer. He knows, what he is talking about!

[mike_lang]

Fraser's book was quite helpful to me, in developing economy of motion and proper alignment of the body to use the fingers and arms equally, and each for their proper purpose.  I've been curious to watch the DVD in order to see demonstrations of some of his techniques, but haven't gotten around to ordering it yet.

Best,
ML

[shingo]

My biggest weakness was that I never watned to slow it down.

My next weakness is my reluctance to move on froma section that has not been perfected. So I will land up practising with no motivation, feeling like i';m failing, and never moving forwards. My teacher said i have to tun over the page after playing familiar parts eventually!!!!

Yeah, although I typed in past tense it is still a big weakness for me, and I am still working at correcting it. At least I am not the only one  . I think I must have been trying to convince myself that it was better.
     The DVD looks interesting, I must say that the 'pseudo-scienctific' terminology was a little irritating, but it looks promising. I liked the bit where he shows the start of la Campanella with the RH thumb arch/jump, pretty interesting. If anyone does purchase would they be so kind as to leave a little feeback on here somewhere?