frustrations with teaching - it really is hard work!

[hyrst]

Hi,
I just need to vent a little, and probably to hear how every one else deals with teaching when it gets tough and frustrating.  I suppose it is simply a matter of tolerance, realistic expectations and self-regulation, but sometimes I just feel so tired and most lessons with some students seem to be interminable!  I have told myself for months to be positive, to find things to inspire them, to allow them to get from music what they want for themselves - but some days it just seems like I feel too exhausted to keep trudging  through.  I don't lose my outward patience, but there are some lessons when I feel like I want to just walk away from the student.  I groan quietly when I know they have a lesson that day.  I want to tell a few students that I just can't work with them anymore, but I don't want to turn them off music or anything. 

Maybe I am spoilt.  I have a number of students with exceptional talent (in composing or playing) - I am a gifted education teacher, so I guess my training has drawn a few who have high ability.  Yet, I sometimes wonder if most teachers would be doing a better job with the slower students I find frustrating - or if their progress is normal and I am just spoilt by having some great students who are hard to keep up with.   

If the kids are happy, should I be happy?  What would be a normal or average time for a 6 to 8 year old to finish a beginner lesson book?  How do you cope if you have been saying the same thing for months and the kid just seems never to hear?  Do you ever give up?  What do you do with those feelings?

Thanks for listening.
Annah

[matterintospirit]

Hi,
I just need to vent a little, and probably to hear how every one else deals with teaching when it gets tough and frustrating.  I suppose it is simply a matter of tolerance, realistic expectations and self-regulation, but sometimes I just feel so tired and most lessons with some students seem to be interminable!  I have told myself for months to be positive, to find things to inspire them, to allow them to get from music what they want for themselves - but some days it just seems like I feel too exhausted to keep trudging  through.  I don't lose my outward patience, but there are some lessons when I feel like I want to just walk away from the student.  I groan quietly when I know they have a lesson that day.  I want to tell a few students that I just can't work with them anymore, but I don't want to turn them off music or anything. 

Maybe I am spoilt.  I have a number of students with exceptional talent (in composing or playing) - I am a gifted education teacher, so I guess my training has drawn a few who have high ability.  Yet, I sometimes wonder if most teachers would be doing a better job with the slower students I find frustrating - or if their progress is normal and I am just spoilt by having some great students who are hard to keep up with.   

If the kids are happy, should I be happy?  What would be a normal or average time for a 6 to 8 year old to finish a beginner lesson book?  How do you cope if you have been saying the same thing for months and the kid just seems never to hear?  Do you ever give up?  What do you do with those feelings?

Thanks for listening.
Annah

   All depends on what your goals are. When i first started teaching at the top music school here in Philadelphia, my goal was to turn each and every student into a concert pianist no matter who they were or what their ability.. I was extremely drained and frustrated, but had a great deal of success and raised the standards at the school. So much so that I challenged the administration at the school, nearly lost my job, and was in the end saved by many letters from adoring students. Chalk it up to idealistic, passionate youth. Now years later, I'll teach anyone, even if they don't practice. Since they are paying me (all in ADVANCE), I'll practice with them at lessons and finish one peice at a time. This makes some of them very happy. I don't mind if they just come to "see" me which some of them do. Some consider me to be their Therapist! Not that i don't have some very advanced and committed students, i do, and i'm much happier to see Them!! With these students, I get to LEARN myself, to use what I KNOW, which is ideal.
   Also I tailor what I am teaching not just to the ability of the student, but what amount of practicing that they are willing to do. As far as children go, some are being pressured by their parents, and rebel by making you the target. This I don't do. I send them "packing"---if the pattern continues. I have had a few children who purposely act like they don't understand in order to frustrate you, tricky little devils. With some of them, I just have "had it out"---call them on their game, until they cry, then after that they usually do what they are supposed to. This is with the parent present of course (parent should ALWAYS be present with children!) The parents are usually relieved after the "altercation "and the usually positive  results. Sometimes you have to deal with "brats" but it shouldn't go on and on.
   Since I need income from teaching, it has determined a lot of what I do and how i teach which is basically how to keep as many students up and running as possible. How to "adjust" so to speak. Of course if you are some big name pianist, you can pick and choose adn charge$$$$$$. I see my teaching as a business, far from ideal, but much better than most other jobs I've had to do! I really enjoy it for the most part.So everything is relative. For me "necessity"--$$$---has been the "mother of invention."---far from ideal, but it WORKS for ME.

[hyrst]

Thanks, Matter...
You understood me fully and hit the nail on the head! 

[nyonyo]

matterintospirit,

Your approach is smart and making sense. You know how to balance things.
Some people just have different way of seeing things.

To me, we cannot really motivate kids who do not want to play piano. Just go along with what they want. They do not practice, we just practice with them during lessons. Don't scream and yell or getting frustrated. I loved to practice with my students, my purpose is to improve my own tehniques on their time.

RS

[matterintospirit]

GOOD!!

[Bob]

It can suck to teach kids sometimes.

It helps if you have your goals, priorities, and policies in place.  

Getting paid is a definite plus.  Having to sit there with a kid who isn't working with you is not.  But it's still music and beats manual labor doesn't it?  (Maybe not though. )

There are ways to take advantage of the situation.  To turn it to your advantage, like the other poster wrote.  If the situation is ideal, then you do the ideal.  If it's not, then how can you go about it the same way?  If a kid isn't into piano, but his parents make him take lessons, you can adjust things.  You can get something out of the situation.  And yes, I do see it as a little unethical and not ideal at all, but it's better than wasting your time and energy in exchange for money.  The kid didn't practice?  You practice with him.  Analzye the heck out of the music if that benefits you.  Play duets -- You practice sight-reading.  That type of thing.  They want to talk?  You listen and take a break.  Practice and develop your speeches for explaining certain topics.   And who knows?  If you follow a different philosophy, maybe it won't be so bad?  I did a 180 on some of my teaching ideas and you know what?  Didn't really matter.  In some cases, it was probably the best thing.  

Take it all with a grain of salt though.  Do what you want to.  Do what's best for you.  You can set things up so you don't end up with the losing end.  You can have things in a win-win situation.  Whatever happens... it's fine because you're not the one losing out.  If you dread certain kids, stop teaching them.  Find a reason.  Practice being diplomatic.  "I just don't think I'm the right teacher for you son/daughter, so this will be our last lesson.  Goodbye and good luck."  

Have realistic expecations though too.  If the student is a kid, they're just a kid.  They won't always practice and won't always have dedication.  There may be long periods where you don't feel like you're doing much as a teacher, but hanging in there is just it.  Eventually they improve.   If the student is an adult, they might not always have time or energy for piano.  Their choice.

You never know though.  I was surprised when I went against some philosophies I had -- when I did a "what's in it for me? I'm sick of wasting time on them like this" time.  It meant my ideas weren't necessarily the best thing all the time.  But... it could just be that hanging in means that in awhile the kid will stumble on something that inspires them or changes their life.  You never know.  So, in a sense, maybe it doesn't matter what you do.

It's hard work and is frustrating?  Try not working so hard maybe.  Try staying calm no matter what.  That could give you control.

I suppose in an ideal world, a teacher could motivate any student, but there is so much that comes into play.  I really wonder who is the perfect teacher and can do everything right for everybody.  I doubt I will ever meet that person.

If that helps you any.  

[hyrst]

Thanks Bob,
I am beginning to see that there are lots of ways one can think, and thus handle these situations.  I guess I feel kind of guilty about taking a parents money if the kid is not learning anything - but maybe I am taking on responsibilities that are not mine. 

One thing I have been aware of is that my own teacher spends a lot of time just talking during lessons, and a lot of that is not about the music - and this is post-diploma level.  I do sometimes feel that I want to play more and talk less, but I am aware that he thinks nothing of it - and he is an international teacher and very experienced professional.   

If this experienced teacher can relax in this context, maybe I should learn to relax when I am teaching.  Maybe there is time to think about things other than music, or to stop and breathe in the lesson.  Maybe I am making teaching hard.   
 
Thank you for helping me think through this.
Annah

[joyfulmusic]

After reading these posts, it might be interesting to rate ones students on a scale of 1-10 of your own enjoyment.  Personally it is parents that frustrate me the most.  If a student is not into it and never ever practicing, I talk to them about whether they really want piano lessons or not.  Then i talk to the parents.  i can take a lot of things, but boredom?  Nope.  That said, I really require only the tiniest of effort from a student to feel like it's still a go.  I have had some A.D.D. students who may never read music, but they still work at it and I teach them things by wrote even as I put numbers and letters on all the notes.  The dozen a day series is fabulous for getting the reading up to speed.  Ever notice that all your students may have a bad day or week at the same time.  i keep telling myself I'm going to look it up in the stars.  Aaaaaaaaah, but then you have a handful of students who have breakthroughs and really start to the play the piano and... who can resist that?

[anna_crusis]

If this experienced teacher can relax in this context, maybe I should learn to relax when I am teaching.  Maybe there is time to think about things other than music, or to stop and breathe in the lesson.  Maybe I am making teaching hard.

I always start the lesson by talking to my students. If they are little, I pick them up, make a few jokes, whatever. The older ones I ask what they did that day, because if they had a bad day it's going to affect their behaviour. Once I'm satisfied they're in a receptive mood, then I begin. If a child senses that you genuinely care about them, you can be strict and they will not be upset by it. In fact, they welcome it - so long as you're fair.

[andric_s]

For some kids, I think it is enough that they are exposed to the piano and to musical ideas regularly.  Even if they never practice, they will gain something, as long as there is a good feeling associated with it.

They won't become concert pianists, but i believe it is unfair of us to expect that our students will, unless they (or maybe their parents) express that desire.  Otherwise, it is more important for them to enjoy music than to excel at it.

I have a couple students who don't practice, and I've had more in the past.  Its best to be up-front with the student and the parents about it.  If they don't practice, they wont learn much piano.  I tell them that I believe they may gain something out of it just by being exposed to it, but really they need to practice.   With these students I teach them songs by rote, or by writing out the letters.   I teach them to make chords on the white notes, eventually adding accidentals.  We goof around on the piano, improvising on the black notes, or making rhythms on two notes.  Each week I give them something small to practice, just in case.

It's not our responsibility to feel guilty for getting paid for these lessons, as long as the parents know how it is.  We can say "practice", but only the parents can enforce it-- or the kids themselves.

If you really dread these lessons, you should examine the source of your dread.  If the bad feeling could be removed by changing your outlook, i.e. deciding not to care whether the student practices, then you can keep the student.

If your anxiety about the lesson comes from your interactions with the student or with the parents, that's another matter.   I would ask myself "Is it my own insecurity that's making me anxious, because I can't controll him or something?  Or is this kid really a little sh*t?"  If the kid is being rude or nasty, I'd probably tell the parents.  If the unpleasantness didn't change, I'd drop the student without a second thought, even if i needed the money.  If i thought the kid was acting badly because he was hurting, I'd be more forgiving.  If he's spoiled, forget it.

One of the benefits of having a private teaching practice is that we ultimately decide how, when, where, and whom we teach.

[anna_crusis]

I don't think you should expect everyone who learns piano to be a concert pianist any more than you'd expect everyone who does sport to be an olympic athlete.

[prongated]

I don't think you should expect everyone who learns piano to be a concert pianist any more than you'd expect everyone who does sport to be an olympic athlete.

All depends on what your goals are. When i first started teaching at the top music school here in Philadelphia, my goal was to turn each and every student into a concert pianist no matter who they were or what their ability.. I was extremely drained and frustrated, but had a great deal of success and raised the standards at the school.

[ultraviolet]

Top music school in Philadelphia?  What?  Are you talking about Curtis?

[lostinidlewonder]

If I had my personal feelings attached to my teaching work I think a lot of my students would be leaving the lessons crying, or at least physically beaten

I simply look at the lessons ON THAT DAY, I don't listen to excuses for not practicing, I just say play and dont talk about why you can't play. We deal with what we have even if what you have is in tatters. I try to be happy about it and say, well if you had no problems you wouldn't need me. Although inside im thinking... damn it this is the 3rd week we are doing the same damn thing. I am always acting as a source for inspiration to the student even when I don't feel like it.

It is one of my pet peeves is students trying to explain why they don't practice. I make all my students feel like they have to show me next week an improvement, I do that always by encouraging them and showing them how to practice, all they need to do is invest time. So they all know if they don't progress it's their fault because in the lessons they progress and they know how to make further progress themselves, they just haven't the disipline to do it themselves. I say to all students at least once; Look I really don't care why you didn't practice so don't bother explaining it, I do not feel bad if you don't practice, but I feel happy when you do practice. Sometimes they must tell me to get the stress off their back for not practicing I try not to let them explain themselves and simply play. I find if you let students explain why they don't practice they will continue not to practice cos they know they can explain their way around it to you and feel better. Simply don't listen to it and say, just play, let the music do the talking.

I have one student who always says "Im tired" ALL the time without fail every lesson! I can't do this because im tired, I can't practice cos im tired etc etc. If we repeat something more than 3 times we starts feeling tired and lazy. I gave him prelim music (and hes grade 5 at least) and he still didn't do the work. I tell him why bother doing piano if you don't practice, he says he likes piano, the parents say, we don't care if he doesn't practice so long he has lessons every week. Wow, thats totally against my thinking, but it works for them, not that i enjoy the snail speed (for the last 4 years). I think they are thinking on the lines of; it's better to do very little instead of nothing, which is true, but not without taxing alot of my patience.

I have been saying "IM TIRED" back to him when I know hes about to say those lovely words The lesson has become the "I'm tired" lesson to me, I find it a good lesson for me to learn how to keep a student awake, I am constantly prompting his attention and pushing him to repeat, Keep the ball rolling. Ill be like... COME ON, a few more repeats and you got it, don't stop now the balls rolling, keep going!! I try to sound excited, I treat the lesson not as a music lessons for me but more of a teaching lesson, how do you keep a student awake and push them on to learn. It's really like the trainers on that show The Biggest Loser. They push the lazy excersising on and on and on and on don't give anyone a break, and when they complain you ignore and push them harder. I mean my lesson with this boy is only 30 minutes, so its not like he's being tortured by my intensity to keep him awake.

I believe every students needs to be pushed with different intensities, So i dont mind being wtih students who don't practice. I find it a big challenge for myself to make them progress, and I have seen more lazy students become efficeint learners with my pig headed persistience and honest looking excitement with their progress. I have learnt to accept snail speed progress and I am not worried about it one bit so long I know for sure it is because of their lack of time to practice, not lack of practice method.

I like to get to the bottom of things sometimes. I have discarded a lot of students after asking them why they are learning music for. When they shrug or say, parents are making them do it I will always drop the student soon after if the attitude doesn't change (and this has happened only 3 times in the last decade). The core reason for learning music must always be known, if the student hasn't a reason to learn they will not invest time and thus you will have to deal with either no progress or apathetic attitude to learning, which I think is just not worth the money.

I remember reading somewhere that a music teacher is one of the most stressful job you can do.

 

[counterpoint]

I try to be happy about it and say, well if you had no problems you wouldn't need me. 

Wow, that's a striking insight 

[penguinlover]

A music teacher's job is hard.  I think that because we want all our students to love music like we do.  We can't just open them up, and pour ourselves into them, and make them love it.  We are always on the search for ways to do this, and that isn't easy.  It actually hurts me when I can't get a student to love the music.  I feel like a failure.  So emotionally, I would agree that music teachers have it tough.  I think that's because we are passionate about it, and want others to share the passion.

[hyrst]

Yes, I totally agree :-)

[leahcim]

Maybe I am spoilt.  I have a number of students with exceptional talent (in composing or playing) - I am a gifted education teacher...., so I guess my training has drawn a few who have high ability.  Yet, I sometimes wonder if most teachers would be doing a better job with the slower students I find frustrating - or if their progress is normal and I am just spoilt by having some great students who are hard to keep up with.

I think if you find "the answer" to how to teach them you'd turn into one of the Chang et al method writers, write a book and want to share with the world how ordinary kids can learn piano. Good luck finding it [and better luck convincing anyone it actually works]

Point is, you sit there and some kids learn and some don't. What you really want, quite naturally is some esteem / assurance that you matter in the equation. Gifted kid - was gonna be good anyway, crap kid - is crap whatever you try. You get a sense of failure perhaps? And that sucks. One solution is to assure yourself via peers that it's the kids / parents / not practising / whatever else's fault and not your failure at all. See the various threads in here full of those excuses. Some aspects it'll be true as well, I'm not suggesting it's all excuses, but a lot are.

My own take is, be careful how much you take the advice that you should give the kids a love of music blah blah blah. If the crap kids are happily enough not to care too much, leave them with that.

There's nothing worse IME than being crap but not wanting to be. The sense of constant failure from that. It's the converse of dumbing it down and pretending they are good when they aren't which is equally bad.  But they'll have friends and parents doing that or potentially even a huge stadium of screaming fans if they manage a few chords and wear make up After so many years of lessons do they still have a realistic view of their ability from your teaching?

They'll blame their teacher / piano / work / homework etc [see the various threads - and, again,  sometime's it's true] A cynical summary of piano teaching amongst the average might be "Passing on your sense of failure to the kids instead, as quickly as they are trying to pass it you back" perhaps
 
But they won't have a bunch of gifted kids to take the credit for "See, I can teach, look at this guy play, it's you" or their own playing "..and I can play too! It must be your fault!" to take solace in. If you feel bad when someone else can't play, imagine how they might feel if they care about it or don't have a realistic view of your ability to teach and assume that it's them, if not in the short term, certainly if you keep on kids that can't play for years and years with not much improvement.

If you have a Bernhard-esque confidence that you can teach anyone who applies themselves [which is very debatable : whether "anyone" can play] that's one thing, if you don't, do the students know?

So yeah, leave them alone if they are happy, work / experiment on finding out whether you  can teach someone who wasn't going to learn anyway - if that search is not motivation enough teaching might not be for you [or use someone else's method that claims it does work, if it doesn't, and you don't want to find one, why waste anymore time on those kids. It'd give them a break and save them some money]

[hyrst]

I actually got as far as telling the father of one of the students I thought was beyond my ability to teach and be patient with that I thought he shoudl have a break.  THe child was following almost no instructions, spent the time at piano talking about anything else, and did no proactice at all.  One day, he jsut looked like he was unhppay with the acitivity - up until then I was frustrated but he was not miserable.  So, I spoke with the dad. 

Neither the father nor, apparently, the son wanted to quit.  Since then, he is 'practicing' all kinds of things.  I have to laugh, but seriously I am almost as lost about what to do as before.  He is only 7, and although he could read quite well a year ago, he seems to have forgotten a lot of the essentials during this past slack period (it went on for more months than I would like to say).  He is wanting to learn new pieces from his lesson book every week and doesnt' understand that he isn't playing much of what is written at all. 

What is very amusing, but I suppose encouraging, is that he is picking up post-diploma level pieces and thinks he is playing them - with a few mistakes, of course :-) He is following a few larger ideas, suich as when the melodic passages ascend he moves to higher notes on the piano - but really, he is not playign anythign remotely like what is written.  He and his father are so proud of him, since nethier of them know he isn't actually playing the music.

I decided not to mislead him, letting him know gently that he isn't really playing the piece but that he is following some of the indications.  But, he was so pleased with himself that nobody heard.  It is good to see him enthusiastic again, I also told him that, and I am certainly not going to 'make him realise' he has it all wrong.  I just hope he gains enough knowledge over time that I can teach him before he gets to the point where the lesson books are impossible to explain a step at a time.

He is still incredibly hard to teach - but at least he wants lessons, I suppose.

[thaicheow]

matterintospirit,

Your approach is smart and making sense. You know how to balance things.
Some people just have different way of seeing things.

To me, we cannot really motivate kids who do not want to play piano. Just go along with what they want. They do not practice, we just practice with them during lessons. Don't scream and yell or getting frustrated. I loved to practice with my students, my purpose is to improve my own tehniques on their time.
RS

Agree. I practice Hanon, and pieces that my student suppose to do. Now I can almost memorize all the Hanon, and most of the pieces I have thought. It drives me nut.