Note Sustaining Method Questionable

[Ruro]

 Hey everyone,

 I recently took the initiative and acquired a new Piano Teacher, who I can already tell is far superior to my first from way back. He seems great, set me the sorta of work I want to do: Working on Technique (Well, naturally), learning Music Theory and so forth, except he also set me to work on a current piece I have learned.

 It's a slow, Grade 3/4 Level piece which requires much Sustaining, else wise it doesn't sound right, perhaps like the Chopin Op.9 No.2 Nocturne, it requires some Pedaling in places (just to be awkward this is probably really debatable, but I'm sure a good number of Pianists use the Pedal in this piece). Regardless, he's says the Sustain pedal is only required to create different Tones and stuff, or large chords, so I can't use it to play the piece.

 Instead, he wants me to hold notes down with my fingers, instead of "cheating" and using the Pedal. By all means, fair enough, but it occurred to me when I was practicing it earlier - isn't that more hassle for the same result? Because... I mean, even if you DO manage to play all the Keys in a particular phrase or whatever, and move your hand FAST enough between each set of notes in the piece, and you eliminate all the gaps/breath marks you don't want implemented in your interpretation (which otherwise could be filled by the Sustain pedal) - you have the same result anyway, Sustained Notes.

 I dunno if that made sense -_- Basically, your working your ass off to sustain notes within Musical Phrases/Slurs if the piece requires it via holding keys manually, when you could JUST use the Sustain? I admit, I'm learning something; it is a bit difficult, as it requires a new approach to Fingering sets of notes together, but ultimately... you can just pedal right? Obviously as I originally said, not according to my new Teacher ^_^;; As I'm learning something though, and per Teachers Orders, I will be keeping at it.

 A cookie for anyone who understood that ~_~ Thanks in advance.

 Ruro

 Addition: A latter thought on it, the only useful thing I can imagine is; releasing particular notes in a group of notes you are holding down, but that would be allowing you to sing your own Harmonies holding the Notes you want down to effectively create chords with, hence possibly removing intentional dissonances that the piece wants to enforce, for example.

 I'm also wondering if he says it in this case, actually, because the Sheet Music has no Sustain Pedal markings (it's an amateur transcription), but it's not directed anywhere on the Sheet music that you should manually hold notes either. The original piece by the "Composer", played the "Official" way, is sustained in some form significantly for the record.

[pianistimo]

maybe you should say which piece this is - and if anyone has played it and what they did.  i always thought (and i could be wrong) that if the notes were comfortably in one's hand - then you finger sustain and add a bit of pedal later.  if they stretch an awful span and are in the bass - to use the sustain pedal.  i never only considered it for tone.  in fact, to say that it's only purpose is that seems to be stretching the truth.  i think the real truth is that not many teachers or students use the sustain pedal and they don't really know how it works. 

just experiment at home and find the sounds that make the piece to your liking (but practice as your teacher says to gain flexibility with your choices).  i had to do that with some mozart and it sounded 100% better when my teacher let me finally add the pedal because i wasn't overdoing the pedal.

[Ruro]

maybe you should say which piece this is

I have avoided that havn't I, merely because it's an Amateur reconstruction of a piece by Ear, specifically an Anime Piano Solo piece by nature, "Shizuka Na Omoi Yari", from Pita-Ten.

i always thought (and i could be wrong) that if the notes were comfortably in one's hand - then you finger sustain and add a bit of pedal later

And you may well be right! Tbh, I only play on a Clavinova I have at home, therefore Zero Real Strings, therefore most likely unrealistic sound production from excessive Pedalling and stuff - on a real Piano, I might slaughter every piece I attempt to play! ~_~

i never only considered it for tone. in fact, to say that it's only purpose is that seems to be stretching the truth

Well, he did say for Tone and for Giant Chords. Infact, he recommends it once in the said piece at hand, as the final Arpeggiated Chords has a resounding A Natural key in the bass, struck beforehand.

i think the real truth is that not many teachers or students use the sustain pedal and they don't really know how it works

I'm confident I do not know how to properly implement it or how it works, but my new Teacher seems quite well known in my Local Area with some admirable achievements, so I trust he is proficiently well-versed in most things Piano. Speaking relatively to my previous Teacher, anyway, heh.

just experiment at home and find the sounds that make the piece to your liking (but practice as your teacher says to gain flexibility with your choices)

I agree with the former, but I don't want to play "Incorrectly", such as gain any bad habits (I would already assess myself as using the Pedal excessively). But I'll definately do the latter

 It didn't seem like he clearly stated it, unless my mind wandered away at that very moment! But maybe it is just about improving Finger coordination/dexterity - if anyone else has input on the original issue, I would love to hear!

 Ruro

[faulty_damper]

I think I understand you.  But considering that you don't have an acoustic piano, you're just going to have to make a huge leap of faith and trust your teacher.

Personally, I don't like teachers telling what to do technically (pedalling, finger pedalling, etc.) unless they make it clear what kind of sound is desirable to be achieved.  If I know what sound that should be achieved, I'll do what is necessary to achieve it, even if it is more difficult.  This, unfortunately, requires a great leap of faith because many musicians will disagree on the desired outcome.

Since you mentioned it was a transcription, a simple one, and considering what your teacher has asked you to do, I would automatically assume that the texture of the piece is such that it probably sounds better without pedal.  Pieces of relatively low vertical note counts typically don't require a lot of pedal because it causes too much resonance; Mozart's piano music is a good example as it usually sounds better dry.  Chopin's piano music, on the other hand, requires a great deal of pedal because of how he writes and the pedal is needed to sustain tones.

If you'd post the transcription, that would give us a better idea of what sound should be achieved.  But listen to your teacher, you are paying him money and spending your own time as well for his expertise.  If you disagree, hold it off until later when you have matured to the point where your opinion would be one filled with enough experience to make a good decision.

[atticus]

Hey,

I think I understand the question and my teacher has told me something similar.  Just the other day he told me to use "finger legato (finger switching)" in a phrase where he also recommended holding down the sustain pedal over the entire phrase.  I wondered why go to all the trouble with the fingers if you are already using the sustain pedal?

atticus

[Ruro]

 Hey folks, thanks for the continued replies!

 I read them over, and took particular note about an Issue of resonance that could be encountered. I will most certainly heed his advice, as again, I am learning something anyway >_< Here's a link for the Sheet music, exact same sheet I operate with. Despite the URL points straight to a PDF file, it does actually go through a PHP business, so Save Targeting as doesn't work, just open it in a new window

https://alphatrance.com/0engine/music/anime/get.php?file=pita-ten-shizuka-na-omoi-yari.pdf

 I would write more, but I just watched an entire Anime today, and had Work in between the whole marathon (the Anime was *that* good!), so... I'll get back to you tomorow evening -_-

 Thanks again people! Much appreciated! Just too tired atm ~_~ Christ, just look at the time!

 Ruro

[faulty_damper]

I just looked at the music: Listen to your teacher.  I agree entirely with him, and I even know which exact bars he is refering to when he wants you to pedal.  Trust your teacher, though you should also ask him what kind of sound is desirable in this piece so you can make better informed decisions when you encounter similarly textured pieces.