COMPOUND TIME

[mknueven]

How do you best explain 6/8 time?

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

6 eight-note beats to a measure subdivided into two groups of 3 beats.

[mike_lang]

"6/8 time is bisexual."
-Emile Naoumoff

[thalberg]

6/8 time has two beats to a measure, and the dotted quarter note gets the beat. 

They notate compound meters according to the  division of the beat rather than the beat because there is no number that can represent a dotted note.

Anything that starts with a 6, 9, or 12 is compound meter and a dotted note gets the beat.  6 has two beats, 9 has 3 beats, 12 has four beats.

Compound meter has beats that are divided into 3s, simple meter has beats that divide into 2s.

[ultraviolet]

6/8 time has two beats to a measure, and the dotted quarter note gets the beat. 

They notate compound meters according to the  division of the beat rather than the beat because there is no number that can represent a dotted note.

Anything that starts with a 6, 9, or 12 is compound meter and a dotted note gets the beat.  6 has two beats, 9 has 3 beats, 12 has four beats.

Compound meter has beats that are divided into 3s, simple meter has beats that divide into 2s.

OMG that is a bunch of garbage.  6/8 time has six beats to the measure.  The number on top is the number of beats, the number on the bottom is the note that gets the beats.  Didn't you learn that in elementary school?

[debussy symbolism]

OMG that is a bunch of garbage.  6/8 time has six beats to the measure.  The number on top is the number of beats, the number on the bottom is the note that gets the beats.  Didn't you learn that in elementary school?

No he is right. Yes, 6/8 does contain 6 beats to a measure, but it is subdivided into two groups of 3 notes, with the second group a lesser accent. This way it is easy to hear the beats. Since there are 2 groups of 3 eight notes, a dotted quarter note would be for one group. That would mean that 6/8 is easily subdivided into two beats.

[allthumbs]

I think there is a mixup between beats and pulses.  6/8 time has 6 beats to a measure but 2 pulses.

[faulty_damper]

This slight confusion is a result of theoretical analyzing, not actual music.  In music, there are no bar lines or beats within the abstract concept of measure.  These are intellectual descriptions after the fact.

I would also add that in 6/8 time, one beat is subdivided into 3s and there are two regularly recurring beats within the melodic/rhythmic phrasing.

A beat is one unit of a measure of time and can be subdivided into many different ways.
In this case, it is 3.

A pulse is the general perception in regards to the speed of music.  This can be interpretted differently be different people.

[thalberg]

I have had many, many years of theory class.

6/8 time.  The beat is the dotted quarter
The division of the beat is two groups of 3 eighth notes
The subdivision of the beat is two sixteenth notes per eighth note.

That is how the vocabulary works.  Look it up.

[faulty_damper]

The subdivision of the beat is two sixteenth notes per eighth note.

In this case, 6/8, that can't be right.  Since there are three 8ths in one beat (which is a triplet), one 8th is one third of the beat.  One third of the beat can then be divided into two 16ths.

So using sylables:
one beat - taa  (dotted quarter)
triplet figure - Ta te ti  (three 8ths)
subdivided - tapa tepe tipi  (six 16ths)

[mike_lang]

In this case, 6/8, that can't be right.  Since there are three 8ths in one beat (which is a triplet), one 8th is one third of the beat.  One third of the beat can then be divided into two 16ths.

So using sylables:
one beat - taa  (dotted quarter)
triplet figure - Ta te ti  (three 8ths)
subdivided - tapa tepe tipi  (six 16ths)

I believe the two of you are saying the same thing...

Best,
ML

[thalberg]

In this case, 6/8, that can't be right.  Since there are three 8ths in one beat (which is a triplet), one 8th is one third of the beat.  One third of the beat can then be divided into two 16ths.

So using sylables:
one beat - taa  (dotted quarter)
triplet figure - Ta te ti  (three 8ths)
subdivided - tapa tepe tipi  (six 16ths)

Yes, exactly. 

[ramseytheii]

This slight confusion is a result of theoretical analyzing, not actual music.  In music, there are no bar lines or beats within the abstract concept of measure.  These are intellectual descriptions after the fact.

I would also add that in 6/8 time, one beat is subdivided into 3s and there are two regularly recurring beats within the melodic/rhythmic phrasing.

A beat is one unit of a measure of time and can be subdivided into many different ways.
In this case, it is 3.

A pulse is the general perception in regards to the speed of music.  This can be interpretted differently be different people.

Bravo, especially on the insight in the first paragraph.

Walter Ramsey

[mknueven]

Thanks to everyone for their replies - I do know the theory way of explaining it
as someone said - it is like getting 2 beats - one for each dotted quarter note.

But it doesn't feel that way to me -
When I'm playing in 6/8 time - I usually count 123 123
I guess you could say I'm subdividing the dotted quarter note.
But when one is not even present in the music - it just doesn't make music sense to me.

I'm asking - because I like to hear how the rest of you interpret it and what kind of beat is going on in your head.

[faulty_damper]

When I'm playing in 6/8 time - I usually count 123 123
I guess you could say I'm subdividing the dotted quarter note.
But when one is not even present in the music - it just doesn't make music sense to me.

DO NOT COUNT NOTES!  THAT IS THE WRONG WAY, THAT IS THE INTELLECTUAL WAY OF UNDERSTANDING THE BEAT AND IF YOU DO IT THIS WAY, IT WILL TAKE A VERY LONG TIME (years or more) TO FEEL THE RHYTHM

Counting how long a note is, like you are doing. is the wrong method of learning how triplets feel.  6/8 time is about triplets.  You know this intellectually but you don't understand it in practice.  (You are not alone on this and many music teachers still teach this intellectual method of note counting.)

Western music is about the subdivision of one unit of time: a beat.  This beat can be divided equally or disproportionately; or it can be extended in the case of half notes, dotted halves, or whole notes (and double whole notes, etc).  But the beat is still present - it is on going even through rests.


Try this:
1.  Instead of counting 1 2 3, say "ta te ti, ta te ti" while nodding your head for each group (te = tay, ti = tee)
2.  Now say and clap it simultaneously.
3.  Now write out the rhythm like this: |_|_|  |_|_| (do not use note heads)
4.  Now tap on each 8th note as you say "ta te ti, ta te ti"
YOU HAVE NOW JUST MADE MANY ASSOCIATIONS: aural, visual, physical, intellectual.

Let's try another, it will help cement this idea.

1.  Say "ta aa ti, ta aa ti" (aa has just replaced "te") still noding your head to each beat.
2.  Say and clap it simultaneously (one on "ta aa" and once on "ti")
3.  Write out the rhythm like this: |    |\ |   |\  (where | is a quarter note, |\ is an 8th note)
4.  Tap on each note as you say "ta aa ti, ta aa ti"
YOU HAVE JUST MADE ANOTHER SIMILAR ASSOCIATION.

Let's do another, and we are almost done.

1.  Say "ta aa aa, ta aa aa" still nodding your head to each beat.
2.  Say and clap it simultaneously (only once on each beat, obviously on the "ta")
3.  Write out the fruity rhythm like this: | .   | .   (where | . is a dotted quarter)
4.  Tap on each dotted quarter as you say "ta aa aa, ta aa aa"
YOU HAVE MADE ANOTHER ASSOCIATION.

About done:

1.  Say "ta te ee, ta te ee" still nodding your noggin.
2.  Say anc dlap it simultaneously (on "ta" and on "te")
3.  Put this on paper like this: |\ |    |\ |   (where |\ is an 8th note)
4.  Clap it now while making noise.
YOU HAVE JUST MADE ALL POSSIBLE ASSOCIATIONS WITH 6/8 TIME (that's a lie, but I want to stop typing).

If you did this, you should already understand at a basic level what a triplet is and it's simple subdivisions.  It may require repetition.  You can now look at your music with 6/8 time and do the above exercises while reading real music.  It's easy and in a short time, you'll have mastered the feel of triplets.