Beethoven - How to understand his works?

[opus57]

Hello folks

I am a big admirer of the works of Beethoven. In english I can't describe exactly, why I admire him, but I try it anyway: His music is for me without any doubt the richest and most intensive music in the colourful universe of classical music. Beethoven was able, to put in every of his pieces an immense content of emotions, thoughts and always a new facette of his own development. No other composer touchs me in such a way as Beethoven do.

So far. Now I thought recently about my "favorite Beethove-piece" and I remarked, that I am not able to define and explain my perceptions and so I decided to ask in this forum for a little help to free my mind of the fogs of emotion and to come closer to a deeper understanding of his works. So I call out for every conoisseur and lover of Beethovens (piano) works to tell me his understanding of his "favourite" piece. And when I say "favourite" I do not mean this kind of "favourite" which is used during talking about colours or animals 

One of the pieces which fascinates me the most is Opus 57 Piano Sonata No. 23 "Appassionata", in german "die Leidenschaftliche". But how I mentioned: I could not explain why!!

I would be very grateful if somebody wants to show me his way of understanding Beethoven 

[invictious]

Personally, I find learning about Beethoven's life, then imagining living like him, and then understanding the motives why he wrote this work (no, writing something for money is not an excuse).

You obviously don't have to have your best buddy shot through the head during a war to understand his work.

It helps recreate the feeling, however, by playing enough Counter-Strike.

[opus57]

Okay. I have to admit, that I don't know his life very well. So I should read something... Thanks for your answer.

[zheer]

    As Beethoven once said "my music is from the heart to the heart". Thinking back many years ago when i first heard Beethoven, his violin concerto,sonata and symphony, I remember how his music unlike any-other composer lifted the spirit. Even today when am feeling realy down to the point where i cant drag myself out of my bed, it is always Beethovens music that brings me out of darkness.
    I truly believe the greatest music ever written, was written by Beethoven.
            
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z5a-tLV7IY

           

[pianistimo]

beethoven was getting good at increasing conflict between the metrical patterns in the accompaniment and the melody.  this is one stylistic thing that we see with increasing frequency as his composition style progressed, imo, and makes us more attuned to the classical 'passionate' style.  the stress it invokes.  roger kamien wrote an article about it in jstor. unfortunately, i don't have access to jstor right now.

he said something like: 'the dominant hypermetrical pattern is the one to which the competing pattern eventually adjusts.' 

interesting to note that this sonata is dedicated to Franz von Brunswick (F minor - for Franz?) and opus 78 dedicated to his wife Theresa von Bruswick (F# major). 

[mcgillcomposer]

Hello folks

I am a big admirer of the works of Beethoven. In english I can't describe exactly, why I admire him, but I try it anyway: His music is for me without any doubt the richest and most intensive music in the colourful universe of classical music. Beethoven was able, to put in every of his pieces an immense content of emotions, thoughts and always a new facette of his own development. No other composer touchs me in such a way as Beethoven do.

So far. Now I thought recently about my "favorite Beethove-piece" and I remarked, that I am not able to define and explain my perceptions and so I decided to ask in this forum for a little help to free my mind of the fogs of emotion and to come closer to a deeper understanding of his works. So I call out for every conoisseur and lover of Beethovens (piano) works to tell me his understanding of his "favourite" piece. And when I say "favourite" I do not mean this kind of "favourite" which is used during talking about colours or animals 

One of the pieces which fascinates me the most is Opus 57 Piano Sonata No. 23 "Appassionata", in german "die Leidenschaftliche". But how I mentioned: I could not explain why!!

I would be very grateful if somebody wants to show me his way of understanding Beethoven 

opus57,

This is a really wonderful post. It is so nice to see someone who is interested in understanding brilliant music without necessarily relying on abstract analysis which, in fact, explains very little.

To begin, you have already pointed out the most powerful aspect of Beethoven's music. It seems to me that each great composer has something that is realitvely unique to him or her. This is not to say that other composers do not have this 'somthing' (whatever it may be), but it just means that they do not have it to the same extent. The most striking thing about Beethoven's music, in my mind, is the incredibly diverse emotional range. This is something he worked on expanding throughout his life, which is clearly evidenced by the music.

This said, there is no way of really generalizing why the music of Beethoven is so great; one must investigate each composition on its own, for they are all vastly different. Each sonata, although in sonata form, displays a different working out of this basic formal structure; in other words, no two sonata 'forms' are the same. Perhaps this is why Charles Rosen chose the plural term for his wonderful book entitled "Sonata Forms".

In any case, I can outline a few things that may help you to understand the brilliance of Beethoven's music. Firstly, how are your skills in harmony, counterpoint, and orchestration? Even if they are wonderful, think about Beethoven - his were infinitely more refined (than all of ours). But this is not all, this was simply the mastery of a craft; the same thing can be said of Mozart, Bach, Brahms, etc. But, what goes beyond this, is the richness of imagination. The ways in which Beethoven works out his ideas is remarkable. There is such an incredible palette of colours that come from, one or two (sometimes even three) small ideas. The invention is breathtaking.

People often confuse the notion of complexity with that of quality. Just because someone uses a complicated system does not make their music automatically profoud or wonderful. Think of this analogy: Someone who uses BIG, long words, but never uses them correctly. Even thlough their vocabulary is vast, their syntax is poor. This does not constitute greatness. Beethoven, even though his harmonic language is relatively simple, used it with great precision and a masterful and artful touch. The same can be said of his orchestration and counterpoint; there is nothing 'weird' in these aspects of his music, but they are used with such mastery - a type of mastery that only comes along about once or twice every hundred years.

To explain in detail the things that are so wonderful in the Op.57 sonata would require more space, and comments complete with musical examples. I do not have time at the moment, but I am currently writing a book on this very subject (but in terms of all the Beethoven sonatas) with a professor from the univeristy of Montreal. When we finish the article on Op. 57 I will be sure to send it to you,provided you do not share it with anyone else before consulting me.

I hope this helps, and once again, a really nice post.

- Andrew

[invictious]

One thing I found immensely helpful, is that I found Beethoven's Piano Solo pieces were similar to an orchestral piece condensed to two hands.
Just imagine that soaring right hand part as flutes and piccolos, and that relentless forward tremolo motion on that left hand is the double bass + cellos, and then the inner voices as violas etc.
That's how I imagined playing my Pathetique, and once I got the mindset, it really improved, compared to before/

[goldentone]

My suggestion for a book on Beethoven:

Beethoven:  His Spiritual Development by J.W.N. Sullivan

A fascinating book, one of the greatest books I've ever read.  You'll learn not only about Beethoven but also about the nature of music.

[mcgillcomposer]

One thing I found immensely helpful, is that I found Beethoven's Piano Solo pieces were similar to an orchestral piece condensed to two hands.
Just imagine that soaring right hand part as flutes and piccolos, and that relentless forward tremolo motion on that left hand is the double bass + cellos, and then the inner voices as violas etc.
That's how I imagined playing my Pathetique, and once I got the mindset, it really improved, compared to before/

This is a really good point. I would make one small suggestion: don't think that ALL of the left hand parts are double bass and cello parts. There are some nice dialogues (mainly in development sections) that could be orchestrated in a few different ways. Be conscious of a number of them, and choose as you see fit. For example, in the Pathétique, 2nd movement, those staccato figures in the left hand would are more bassoon-like than double-bass like in my opinion. The double bass and cello would be too heavy and sluggish here.

[Nightscape]

If you would like to understand Beethoven's works better, there is nothing better than simply playing and listening to them.  And to truly grasp Beethoven you'll have to listen beyond the piano sonatas and venture into the realms of the trios, the quartets, the symphonies, and the other sonatas and miscellaneous works.  To understand Beethoven is a truly gargantuan task and can probably never truly be done.  But you can learn so much about music and about life by listening to what Beethoven had to say in his music.  Each piece is unique and is a miniature musical world - I have found no other composer who can pack so much meaning and depth into each piece.

Lately I have been listening to the op.1 piano trios and the op.131 string quartet.  They are at opposite ends of Beethoven's compositional career but they are both unmistakably Beethoven.  Right now I am learning one of his late piano sonatas and I am playing the 'ghost' piano trio with a violinist and a cellist.  After listening to these works and the others I listed, it has helped me tremendously in the process of learning these great works.

(And make sure to get good recordings, please!  Or, if you are lucky hear a good live performance, that is by far the best experience.)

[invictious]

This is a really good point. I would make one small suggestion: don't think that ALL of the left hand parts are double bass and cello parts. There are some nice dialogues (mainly in development sections) that could be orchestrated in a few different ways. Be conscious of a number of them, and choose as you see fit. For example, in the Pathétique, 2nd movement, those staccato figures in the left hand would are more bassoon-like than double-bass like in my opinion. The double bass and cello would be too heavy and sluggish here.

Thank you, I was suggesting a simple suggestion, obviously you can take on any combinations you want (tuba and piccolo duet...?). When I practice conducting, my bassoonist in my imaginary orchestra always misses cues and misses notes...
Bah.
Reiterating the point though, it really does help to imagine them as orchestras. This helped with my voicing, phrasing and really, everything.

Obviously, playing them yourself is the best way to understand, then study the score (not too thoroughly, remember, it's Beethoven, overstudying will ruin it), imagining where the double bass comes in, then the violin, then the timpanis etc.

[opus57]

[...] Beethoven, even though his harmonic language is relatively simple, used it with great precision and a masterful and artful touch. The same can be said of his orchestration and counterpoint; there is nothing 'weird' in these aspects of his music, but they are used with such mastery - a type of mastery that only comes along about once or twice every hundred years.
[...]

Hi Andrew

Thank you for this post. I had known that there are some people in this forum who knows better to write about Beethovens work than I do. And I agree with your aspects about the ingenious putting together the single "unweird" parts! Very nice thought...

And if you want to show me your article about Opus 57 I would be very pleased 

Thanks you for answering

If you would like to understand Beethoven's works better, there is nothing better than simply playing and listening to them.  And to truly grasp Beethoven you'll have to listen beyond the piano sonatas and venture into the realms of the trios, the quartets, the symphonies, and the other sonatas and miscellaneous works.  To understand Beethoven is a truly gargantuan task and can probably never truly be done.  But you can learn so much about music and about life by listening to what Beethoven had to say in his music.  Each piece is unique and is a miniature musical world - I have found no other composer who can pack so much meaning and depth into each piece.

Lately I have been listening to the op.1 piano trios and the op.131 string quartet.  They are at opposite ends of Beethoven's compositional career but they are both unmistakably Beethoven.  Right now I am learning one of his late piano sonatas and I am playing the 'ghost' piano trio with a violinist and a cellist.  After listening to these works and the others I listed, it has helped me tremendously in the process of learning these great works.

Yeah, this is truly one of the most important aspects of Beethovens music! Every piece is soo different but they are all parts of one single work, of his life, his feelings and his spiritual development (as goldentone mentioned).

In the moment I'm looking everywhere for good recordings and live-concerts. What I still need are all of the songs, the quartets and some other smalelr peices he wrote. I'm already in possesion of the sonatas (Gulda), the symphonies (Tonhalle Orchestra Zürich), the trios (Guarnieri Trio), the bagatelles (Brendel) and a lot of other nice things...


I thank you all people for posting here and sharing your opinions to the greatest composer of the world of classical music (or maybe even the greates composer of all ages)...