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Topic: Analysis  (Read 2728 times)

Offline elsie07

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Analysis
on: October 04, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
I have looked through several threads in the theory board which talked about analyzing music.  I have a vague idea of what analysis is, but could someone please explain what exactly it means to analyze music?  Is it just studying the form, harmony, rhythm, etc. of the piece or is there more involved?  Are there specific questions one should ask when analyzing a piece?  From what I know of it, analyzing sounds fun and since I'm fascinated by music theory, I'm thinking I might give it a try. :)

Thanks! :)
 - Evelyn Glennie

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Analysis
Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 08:30:32 PM
I have looked through several threads in the theory board which talked about analyzing music.  I have a vague idea of what analysis is, but could someone please explain what exactly it means to analyze music?  Is it just studying the form, harmony, rhythm, etc. of the piece or is there more involved?  Are there specific questions one should ask when analyzing a piece?  From what I know of it, analyzing sounds fun and since I'm fascinated by music theory, I'm thinking I might give it a try. :)

Thanks! :)

Although it may seem rather simple on the surface, the question you have asked is quite difficult to answer. In any case, to analyze music is simply trying to make sense of it; you have mentioned some of the parameters that one can look @ to enrich one's understanding.

This said, there are numerous 'methods' of analysis, but I think the most fruitful sort is that which tells us something practical about a piece, rather than one that indicates some abstract relationship (the the composer himself may not have thought of) that has no basis in audibility (meaning, it is only obvious on paper).

It is important, however, to make the distinction between an open and a closed system. A closed system (e.g. serial music) is one in which the composer has a definite restriction as to what he may write. For example, once a tone row is chosen, the composer is bound by certain rules as to what note can be placed where. In an open system (e.g. traditional tonality, intervallic harmony, bitonality, etc.) this restrictionis not in place. The composer may choose any harmony at any given time, but all must come together to form a coherent piece in the end.

To analyze music written in a closed system, obviously you require a working knowledge of the EXACT system the composer used (e.g. the tone row, the mathematical formulae, etc.), in an open system, you must be more intimately familiar with its functioning. For example, it is not enough to know the 'traditional' voice-leading of a IV7-V progression - you must know WHY the traditional voice-leading is as such, and why a composer might deviate from this.

In addition to this, you must be able to define musically audible events that have a special importance in the working out of a composition. For instance, take Beethoven's Op. 31, No. 1 sonata. In the first movement, the opening gesture leads to various places throughout the piece. The most important thing to note is how Beethoven uses the same gesture to lead to divergent locations, and HOW he modifies it at certain points, and why this works. This requires a solid musical craft - so I would suggest that you study harmony, counterpoint, and orchestration under a good teacher.

There is more to it, but this gives you some of the fundamentals. I hope it helps.

- Andrew
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Analysis
Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 02:53:54 AM
I have to disagree with a few items, but I hope it isn't seen as nit-picking.

Since most of the music we play was written in a recognizable and definable tradition, you should always start with the basics of Western harmony: scales, triads, cumulating levels of counterpoint, modulation (in terms of harmony), voice-leading, common forms. 

Beyond that, the only question in analysis I can think of that applies to every piece, is, what is the composer trying to achieve, and how does he do it? 

For modern pieces especially, many of which are written without immediate context, or are written to explore a particular (and often obscure) idea in the composer's mind, you have to find a way to analyze the music from the inside out, rather than the outside in. 

In the classics, and the canon of repertoire, there is so rich a context, and so much literature, that you can really analyze from the outside in.  For instance, you can have a definition - right or wrong - of "sonata form," and then analyze movements of Beethoven or Haydn as they compare to this outer factor.  For most modern pieces, I would guess, there is not a way to do that, and they have to be understood on their own terms.



It is important, however, to make the distinction between an open and a closed system. A closed system (e.g. serial music) is one in which the composer has a definite restriction as to what he may write. For example, once a tone row is chosen, the composer is bound by certain rules as to what note can be placed where. In an open system (e.g. traditional tonality, intervallic harmony, bitonality, etc.) this restrictionis not in place. The composer may choose any harmony at any given time, but all must come together to form a coherent piece in the end.

I think this is really debatable, because the only possibility of serial music being closed in the way you define, is if you write serial music according to the literal theory.  But I can't think of a single composer who ever did it, except Hauer, and he was a failure. 

Schoenberg sometimes presented the whole row at the beginning, sometimes not.  Webern sometimes used all twelve pitches in a row, sometimes not.  The level of variety is complex enough to not always be able to tell what comes from what.  This is a common pet peeve of mine, because I feel like anytime someone talks about serial music, they are really talking about the theory, not the actual music that has been written.

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said, "You can't write octaves in serial music."  Maybe Schoenberg wrote that, but so the f^@& what?  He wrote octaves.
Quote
To analyze music written in a closed system, obviously you require a working knowledge of the EXACT system the composer used (e.g. the tone row, the mathematical formulae, etc.), in an open system, you must be more intimately familiar with its functioning. For example, it is not enough to know the 'traditional' voice-leading of a IV7-V progression - you must know WHY the traditional voice-leading is as such, and why a composer might deviate from this.

About your first statement, Schoenberg wrote that the tone row as a whole probably isn't, and in fact shouldn't be, audible to the listener.  If then you use the tone-row and its permutations as a basis for analysis, you are in fact analyzing according to what is not noticeable to the ear, which you remarked earlier was not fruitful.

From my own experience playing serial music, tone-row analysis is useful for the player, in order to orient himself better, but I don't think of the main serial composers (I am considering Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Boulez, and Stravinsky) as relying on twelve-tone rows alone to determine their music.  In other words there are so many other factors, that are audible, that contribute to an analysis which is enlightening to the listener.

I agree with you about context.

Quote
In addition to this, you must be able to define musically audible events that have a special importance in the working out of a composition. For instance, take Beethoven's Op. 31, No. 1 sonata. In the first movement, the opening gesture leads to various places throughout the piece. The most important thing to note is how Beethoven uses the same gesture to lead to divergent locations, and HOW he modifies it at certain points, and why this works. This requires a solid musical craft - so I would suggest that you study harmony, counterpoint, and orchestration under a good teacher.

I think I can categorize this under my theory of "inside out."  Although op.31 no.1 is a sonata, and can be thought of like that (outside in), because there are familiar gestures scattered around, that is always the best starting point for analysing from the inside out.  Once you can identify anything that repeats, the question always becomes the differences.

Walter Ramsey


Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Analysis
Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 07:33:25 AM
Since most of the music we play was written in a recognizable and definable tradition, you should always start with the basics of Western harmony: scales, triads, cumulating levels of counterpoint, modulation (in terms of harmony), voice-leading, common forms.

I agree 100%.

In the classics, and the canon of repertoire, there is so rich a context, and so much literature, that you can really analyze from the outside in.  For instance, you can have a definition - right or wrong - of "sonata form," and then analyze movements of Beethoven or Haydn as they compare to this outer factor.  For most modern pieces, I would guess, there is not a way to do that, and they have to be understood on their own terms.

Indeed there are certain archetypes against which a lot of music can be compared. That said, there are principles of harmony, counterpoint, and form that do not depend on style. As such, the quality of craft can always be judged - from this, we can answer the following: Did the composer use effective means to chieve the desired result. A trivial example: If one wants a crescendo in the orchestra, do they add instruments? If not, well...most likely, the means is not approprate for the desired result.

I think this is really debatable, because the only possibility of serial music being closed in the way you define, is if you write serial music according to the literal theory.  But I can't think of a single composer who ever did it, except Hauer, and he was a failure. 

Schoenberg sometimes presented the whole row at the beginning, sometimes not.  Webern sometimes used all twelve pitches in a row, sometimes not.  The level of variety is complex enough to not always be able to tell what comes from what.  This is a common pet peeve of mine, because I feel like anytime someone talks about serial music, they are really talking about the theory, not the actual music that has been written.

I agree. There is freedom within the serial system; however, it is still a closed system because the choices of pitch order are not infinite and are to a large degree, pre-defined - in tonal music, and other open systems, they are. That is all I was trying to say.

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said, "You can't write octaves in serial music."  Maybe Schoenberg wrote that, but so the f^@& what?  He wrote octaves.
About your first statement, Schoenberg wrote that the tone row as a whole probably isn't, and in fact shouldn't be, audible to the listener.  If then you use the tone-row and its permutations as a basis for analysis, you are in fact analyzing according to what is not noticeable to the ear, which you remarked earlier was not fruitful.

Again, I agree. Regardless of style, music should always be written and analyzed based on audible principles. This is why the music of so many minor serial composers fails - they give priority to the system. There is music, however, where the tone row is audible (much of Dallapiccola), but as the piece progresses, it becomes less and less clear. This is akin to a fugue where, once the subject is developed, it becomes less and less clear. That is why it is often useless to analyze a fugue by identifying all of the subject, counter-subject, answer, etc., entries - sometimes they are written in order NOT to be heard as such.

From my own experience playing serial music, tone-row analysis is useful for the player, in order to orient himself better, but I don't think of the main serial composers (I am considering Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Boulez, and Stravinsky) as relying on twelve-tone rows alone to determine their music.  In other words there are so many other factors, that are audible, that contribute to an analysis which is enlightening to the listener.


I agree with this. Again, this is part of the reason why good serial composers are so rare.

I think I can categorize this under my theory of "inside out."  Although op.31 no.1 is a sonata, and can be thought of like that (outside in), because there are familiar gestures scattered around, that is always the best starting point for analysing from the inside out.  Once you can identify anything that repeats, the question always becomes the differences.
You have an interesting point. I think it is very important to realize that, by the definition of categorization, we only have categories for those things that are MOST common. Theories are so often based on these categories, and one gets bent up on trying to stuff everything into a neat little box. Obviously, this is an error and often causes one to miss what is most brilliant about a certain composition. A typical example of this is the motivic analysis of Beethoven's 5th symphony. This fact alone is trivial - what is remarkable are the fruits that this motif bore in the hands of a master...what imagination...what invention...

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, it was interesting to read.
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline thalberg

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Re: Analysis
Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 08:19:57 AM
I have looked through several threads in the theory board which talked about analyzing music.  I have a vague idea of what analysis is, but could someone please explain what exactly it means to analyze music?  Is it just studying the form, harmony, rhythm, etc. of the piece or is there more involved?  Are there specific questions one should ask when analyzing a piece?  From what I know of it, analyzing sounds fun and since I'm fascinated by music theory, I'm thinking I might give it a try. :)

Thanks! :)

McGill and Walter have done a great job.  I'm going to give you some really obvious basics.  Let's say you were analyzing a sonata.  You'd want to know:

What is sonata form?
How does this piece fit sonata form and how does it deviate?
Where is the first theme, transition, second theme, and closing theme?
Where are the modulations and what keys do I go to?
What themes are broken up and re-ordered in the development?
What key areas do I go to in the develoment and how do I get there?
How is the recapitulations the same/different than the exposition?

No matter what the piece, always be on the lookout for passages of harmonic interest and modulation.

If you were analyzing a fugue, you'd ask:

What is the subject?
Is there a countersubject?
How many voices are there?
How is the subject treated (augmentation, diminution, stretto, etc--textbooks have lists)
Where are the episodes and what are they doing?

and always with every piece, you ask, what is the character of this piece.

With a short character piece or prelude, ask yourself what emotion you're trying to convey.  Get an idea of the harmonic and thematic layout of the piece.  Figure out phrasing.

So you see, analysis is different depending on the piece.  These are only a very few rudimentary things, but they are examples of what analysis is.

And as for Schoenberg et al, one time someone sent Schoenberg a letter saying they had found all the rows in one of his pieces.  He sent the person a post card saying "Und?"  Just the one word.  Haha.

Offline elsie07

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Re: Analysis
Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 02:07:04 PM
Thank you very much, all of you! :) I appreciate your help.  I'm not sure where I'm going to start, but it is nice to have lots of ideas.  Thanks again!
 - Evelyn Glennie
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