Is it Ok to program Single Movements of Sonatas

[leonidas]

..And other larger multi-movement works?

Reasoning - Many large works and collections are uneven in quality, and would be played much more often if broken up into sections.

I do think taste should be applied, it should be coherent and valuable on it's own.

As an example, I love Medtner's first piano sonata, I find all the movements *good* but I think the first movement is on it's own an incredible masterpiece.

Another obvious one is the problem with the Alkan sonata, the first 2 movements are very exciting and work together or alone, and the whole work is absolutely great, but it's just so long that it remains difficult to program, and therefore remains neglected.

[invictious]

Professional professional concerts USUALLY include all movements of a concerto/symphony/sonata, but this always changes, depending on the time etc.

Personally I only love the first movements of many sonatas/concertos/symphonies. I usually therefore only learn those, but never the second and third unless I am required or I somehow like it.

Though there people who think it's right to include the full work and unprofessional to only include sections, it's really up to you. I don't mind including a single sonata.

[cygnusdei]

I think it's OK but only for one incomplete sonata - at least you can argue time constraints. If you have disparate movements from different sonatas it will come across as hodge-podge.

[thalbergmad]

If my failing memory serves, the salonist composer Henri Herz once played 3 movements from different Beethoven Sonatas, thus creating a new Sonata.

Times and tastes have changed and it would be heretical to do this today.

Thal

[pianistimo]

i'm glad you explained that further.  whew.  i was getting concerned for your mental stability, too.

schubert broke up a couple of his sonatas and sold the individual works as impromptus.

[thalbergmad]

i was getting concerned for your mental stability, too.

Deal with your own first.

It is in far greater need of assistance.

Thal

[amelialw]

I would prefer to listen to a whole sonata

[ramseytheii]

i'm glad you explained that further.  whew.  i was getting concerned for your mental stability, too.

schubert broke up a couple of his sonatas and sold the individual works as impromptus.

The impromptus were never intended as sonatas, that is Robert SChumann's fancy.  In fact, I think he wrote (I can check the exact words later) not that they even were a sonata, but that they seemed like a sonata.  Impromptus op,90 might have been sold before Schubert died, but I don't think so, but Impromptus op142 were definitely not, they are posthumous.

Walter Ramsey, Information Police

[rob47]

Somewhat unrelated, i think the 2nd mvt. of prokofiev's 7th symphony is one of the greatest most beautiful movements of anything written by anybody, ever.

as you know i have a transcription of this symphony in various stages of completion and, like Feinberg's tchaik 6 scherzo trans., feel it(the 2nd mvt.) could so successfully end a recital (either as the last piece on a program or as an encore)

horowitz often encore'd with the 3rd mvt of rach2 sonata, but of course performed the whole piece a lot also.

smkbrbtru

[invictious]

The thing is, it's always the first movement of any major work (concerto, symphony or sonatas) that is famous and loved, the 2nd and third (or fourth) are usually rather less known and people don't like them that much, perhaps their concentration is slipping just sitting there listening.
Although that is not always the case. Pathetique Sonata 2nd mov is very famous, and 3rd mov is not that bad.
Beethoven's 4th movement of 9th Symphony is darned famous.
but even if everyone knows Grieg's Piano concerto, who the hell here has actually listened to the 2nd movement or the third movement in depth, except when preparing for a performance?

[mattgreenecomposer]

Agghhhh!!!!   the 3rd movement is the best part of the Greig.  Its absolutley gorgeous!  Here is a link to the best Norwegian pianist playing a Norwegian composers work.  You can't tell me this isn't divine!

[goldentone]

If I may speak on behalf of the composers, I believe they would be quite upset if their
works were partially performed.  The individual movements are, after all, parts of a whole.
The advent of recording has brought their music to everyone, for which they would have been grateful.  On the other hand, it has given power to the people--we can skip anything we want. 

But as far as performance, in respect to the composer and his work of art, I believe we should play it in its entirety.

[thalbergmad]

If I may speak on behalf of the composers, I believe they would be quite upset if their
works were partially performed. 

Nowadays, yes.

The 19th & 18h centuries were different.

Thal

[pianistimo]

ramseytheii,  you might be correct on that.  have to look into where i found the notes that i wrote into the opus 142 impromptus.  i think it was inside a record cover.  what i find interesting is that if you put them together they fulfill the 'parts' to make the whole - thereby making the story credible.  also, the opus 142 begins and ends (if thought of as a sonata) in f minor.  the other movements being in related keys of Ab major and then a step up to Bb major and back to f minor.  this tonal relatedness as well as the type of movements each is:  sonata (or rondo), minuet, theme and variations, rondo with coda - makes it appear as a sonata. 

however, i don't recall when and how they were sold.  i thought that schubert did it to make more money.  but, if they were published after he passed away - then it was the publishers themselves that did the deed.  also, i thought that schubert was pretty well off as compared to other musician/composers financially - so he didn't need to do this.

[soliloquy]

not unless it's like... OC or something.

[ahinton]

not unless it's like... OC or something.

Which isn't a "sonata" per se, but I do take your point in principle, of course; I'm still not sure that I entirely agree with it, though, for if the sonata concerned is sufficiently cogent and through-composed, then one would assume that extracting bits of it would only serve to detract from it. The sonata that I'm particularly thinking about here is the only one of Sorabji's six piano sonatas that has yet to be performed - the Opus Archimagicum, numbered V in the series of sonatas (the first one, dating from 1917, was never given a number by the composer and happened to be his very first known work for piano solo); the idea of extracting and performing any single movement from that work is far from appealing or constructive, it seems to me...

Best,

Alistair

[houseofblackleaves]

I personally advise against it, but it is acceptable.  It kinda depends on the piece.

For example, lots of big name competitions would allow a pianist to play say, Scarbo from Gaspard by itself.  Even though technically it's the third "movement" from Gaspard de la Nuit, it's still it's own piece of music separate from that of Ondine and Le Gibet.

Just one random example.

It's difficult to judge with sonatas sometimes.  Lots of this depends on the standard of the recital you're giving, and of course the piece.

I went to an excellent senior recital once, that ended in a performance of the third movement of the Schumann concerto with second piano accompaniment. 

So my short answer is sure.  If you've built up a strong enough program and it's done as either a last resort or you've adequately thought it out.

[jpowell]

I think Ives sanctioned the performance of single movements of the Concord Sonata. The Celestial Railroad, a stand-alone piece from 1922, is in many ways a re-working of Hawthorne.

Piers Lane played just the Quasi Faust movement of the Alkan sonata this summer in Germany.

[ahinton]

I think Ives sanctioned the performance of single movements of the Concord Sonata. The Celestial Railroad, a stand-alone piece from 1922, is in many ways a re-working of Hawthorne.

Indeed - and if the composer specifically sanctioned such a thing, it thereby acquires some legitimacy that it would not necessarily have otherwise.

Piers Lane played just the Quasi Faust movement of the Alkan sonata this summer in Germany.

And he's not the first to do this; years ago, I heard it played by (the since deceased) Robert Sherlaw Johnson.

On the whole, however, I think that it is only in exceptional cases that performing individual movements from sonatas is justifiable.

One way around this issue, of course, is for the composer to compose single-movement sonatas and, of the many that already exist, those by Skryabin, John White and some Scotsman whose name escapes me are all well familiar to you, of course!

Best,

Alistair