David Helfgott ,his Rach 3.

[zheer]

   Helfgott plays this with Copenhagen Orchestra, you can hear that he struggles with some very difficult parts but generally speaking he plays it better than most. Am curious what you guys think of his music making,personally i feel that he is insperational both as a musician and a person.

[retrouvailles]

generally speaking he plays it better than most.

Um, no. Just no. Worst Rachmaninoff 3rd ever. The only thing inspirational about him is his story. Nothing more.

[zheer]

Um, no. Just no. Worst Rachmaninoff 3rd ever. The only thing inspirational about him is his story. Nothing more.

  No really, something different in his music making,so many pianist today sound superhumanm with him it just sound human.

[liszt1022]

Human? Awful is the word.

[invictious]

I have only watched the movie 4 years ago, and I really, can't remember the recording. 4 years ago, I was only playing Kuhlau's sonatas!
Can anyone guide me to a youtube vid of the recording?

Well, it was that movie which inspired me to practice at that time, then it wore off..after 2 weeks. I retented back to my original shape of 15 minutes a day.

[retrouvailles]

I think the recording used in the movie was someone else. It sounded much better than the one with Milan Horvat. But yeah, awful is the word, not human. And someone can make it sound human (not "superhuman") without making it sound like crap. I can think of countless good recordings that have done that.

[thalberg]

I don't see what is inspiring about Helfgott's story, sorry.  I really don't.  Lots of people get abused yet don't forget to put their pants on in the morning.  Though a violin teacher at my school did forget to put his pants on when he answered the door when a student came to his house.  He had boxers on, but his wife was yelling from the next room for him to put his pants on.  Poor student, sweet asian girl. 

[Kassaa]

I think the recording used in the movie was someone else. It sounded much better than the one with Milan Horvat. But yeah, awful is the word, not human. And someone can make it sound human (not "superhuman") without making it sound like crap. I can think of countless good recordings that have done that.

Wasn't Orozco the one who played it in the movie?

[retrouvailles]

Wasn't Orozco the one who played it in the movie?

I don't know. Orozco actually has a decent Rach 3, so I wouldn't be surprised. It shows that the producers of the film agreed that Helfgott's Rach 3 is crap, or else they would have used his. Think about that one.

[counterpoint]

Lots of people get abused yet don't forget to put their pants on in the morning. 

    

[thalberg]

   

Haven't you seen the movie about David Helfgott?  He forgets to put his pants on in the morning and goes out with them off.

[counterpoint]

Haven't you seen the movie about David Helfgott?  He forgets to put his pants on in the morning and goes out with them off.

He had a psychosis and therefore he "forgot" his pants.

And please don't make fun about abused or maltreated children.

[cmg]

He had a psychosis and therefore he "forgot" his pants.

And please don't make fun about abused or maltreated children.

Helfgott had a psychotic disorder and psychotic disorders, quite often, are not the result of childhood abuse.  They are,  many times, organic, biochemical brain disturbances that, probably, have a genetic source.

Helfgott, according to the movie (and who knows how reliable it is) was "abused," which didn't help his underlying psychosis.  In fact, it probably hastened its emergence. 

But, without the abuse, the poor man still would have suffered from psychosis.

[counterpoint]

But, without the abuse, the poor man still would have suffered from psychosis.

I'm get really sick of such statements.

Helfgott was badly maltreated and that is terrible enough.
To say, he would have got the psychotic phases in any case means to play down the cruelty he suffered in his childhood.

[cmg]

I'm get really sick of such statements.

Helfgott was badly maltreated and that is terrible enough.
To say, he would have got the psychotic phases in any case means to play down the cruelty he suffered in his childhood.

Sorry you're feeling ill, but I didn't downplay his mistreatment.  Nor did I excuse the cruelty.  It's simply the case that mental illness in children is often misinterpreted as behavioral problems.  Therefore the stupid parents become unusually punitive.  This appears to be part of the problem in the Helfgott case.  The cruel treatment exacerbates what is already there in the emergin pathology.

Helfgott would have suffered from psychosis no matter who parented him.  His parents, however, made his case so much worse.

Not all severely abused children become psychotic.  That's the point.  And why?  The argument being that psychosis does not have a straight-line correllation with abuse.  It is widely interpreted as being a brain disease.  Something organic and innate that nothing will prevent from emerging.  Not even great parenting.  If you've ever worked with psychotics, as I have, you would know this.  Perfectly wonderful parents find they are rearing schizophrenic children.  Psychotic disorders most often have no connection to abuse.  That's a demonstrable scientific fact.

Psychosis, unlike neurosis, is a break with reality.  What's going on for the psychotic does not correspond to what is really going on outside of them.  Helfgott displayed all the symptoms:  difficulty in connecting with others, isolation, auditory hallucinations, almost non-existent social skills.  His triumph is that he overcame psychosis to be a productive musician.  I admire him immensely.

Now, please feel better. 

[counterpoint]

Perfectly wonderful parents find they are rearing schizophrenic children.  Psychotic disorders most often have no connection to abuse.  That's a demonstrable scientific fact.

How does it come that we're talking now about "perfectly wonderful parents" 

And if you worked with psychotic people - how do you know their parents so well? Parents can be extremly nice in public while extreme cruel in privacy.

Besides this - I don't like theories like "Life can be cruel - but real pain only comes from the genes"

Now, please feel better. 

It seems I have to take some pills to feel better... 

[thalbergmad]

I admire him immensely.

So do i, but i wonder if any of us would have ever heard of him if it were not for his sad malady.

Thal

[counterpoint]

So do i, but i wonder if any of us would have ever heard of him if it were not for his sad malady.

Thal

As musicians we have to do with sad maladies every day...   

[thalberg]

He had a psychosis and therefore he "forgot" his pants.

And please don't make fun about abused or maltreated children.

Yes, sorry about that, I was not thinking.

[franzliszt2]

He is nothing like he is portrayed in the movie. I have seen him, he's just a little odd. Almost like a child, he's just very gentle and cuddles everyone he knows. He doesn't act like he does in the movie at all. And I know at least 7 people that studied at RCM with him, and seen his Rach3 live, and they say he was just an odd character. Very nervous, stampted his feet and snorted all the time. The film is awful! It's the most riddiculosu film ever. I mean what the hell is going on with it> Why does the polonaise start at the top of the piano? Why is Rach 3 in Eb minor? Why does it portray RCM as a place full of mental people??

He is not a great pianist. He just has an interesting story. Sad but true

[mattgreenecomposer]

Personally I like his recording of Rach 3.  It's one of my favorites actually.  Not because of the whole thing from beginning to end but b/c of these "moments of genius" he has especially in the darkest moments of the piece.

As a composer I dont care if someone misses my notes or plays the cadenza at light speed.  Thats not impressive at all.  If I want to hear a note perfect performance of any piece (at ANY tempo I might add) I would put it in the program MAX MSP and have it play back on a  piano. 

Truth is, he is extremely gifted and b/c he doesn't defend himself people rip on him.  Quite sad.

[retrouvailles]

He is not a great pianist. He just has an interesting story. Sad but true

For once, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[jakev2.0]

Helfgott's about as inspirational a story as the story of a poor Quebecois pharmacist's son without talent who slaved away at forgotten repertoire until he, by the force of his will, finally achieved some mainstream success.

[retrouvailles]

Helfgott's about as inspirational a story as the story of a poor Quebecois pharmacist's son without talent who slaved away at forgotten repertoire until he, by the force of his will, finally achieved some mainstream success.

Oh get out.

[Kassaa]

Helfgott's about as inspirational a story as the story of a poor Quebecois pharmacist's son without talent who slaved away at forgotten repertoire until he, by the force of his will, finally achieved some mainstream success.

lol
although I disagree, it's effing hilarious :') .