Whats News people?

[ada]

A survey has found that America's ugliest people live in Philadelphia, which is also home to the nation's least stylish, least friendly and least wordly people 

"America's Favorite Cities" survey was conducted by Travel & Leisure magazine and CNN Headline News.

And in other news ..... scientists have announced that a Russian cockroach called Nadezhda (Hope) has given birth to the first creatures ever conceived in space. Who said cockies wouldn't inherit the world - make that space?

On a serious note, bushfire obessed Australia is hearing a lot about the California fires. Hope you all stay safe.

[gilad]

Amnesty slams Fatah, Hamas clashes:

https://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380636961&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

200 demand arrest:

 https://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2207920,00.html
 

[thalbergmad]

RUGBY WORLD CUP 2011

It has been reported that the Australian Rugby Team will use a tea bag as a logo in the next championships.

This is becuase a tea bag tends to stay in the cup longer.

Thal

[ada]

RUGBY WORLD CUP 2011

It has been reported that the Australian Rugby Team will use a tea bag as a logo in the next championships.

This is becuase a tea bag tends to stay in the cup longer.

Thal

 

Oh you are sooooooo funny Thal. I will not not dignify this post with a response.

oh. I just did 

[mephisto]

Not news per se, but an artical by an Israeli peace-activist. Very interesting:

https://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html

[thalbergmad]

In merry England where Health & Safety Laws have gone mad, this week it has been reported that the fire service has been stopped in one particular town in helping to put up Christmas decorations.

Apparantly, climbing ladders was considered too dangerous.

Thal

[pianogeek_cz]

Hmmm, mephisto, can't read it, demands the Hebrew language set and I don't have the appropriate CD... What's the name of the activist? Perhaps I could google him somewhere. Oh, and if it's a Peace Now person, don't bother, they've been discredited enough (Ma'aleh Adumim land claims, ahem ahem).

Anyway, as far as articles go:
https://www.mosheyaalon.com/articles.php

This guy, as far as I can tell, is probably the most sane person in the field.

As far as news go...

Any technology can be misused - proof positive:
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124036

Like, duh. Husseyni, anyone?
https://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380665698&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

And here I thought there'd be 1) Washington D.C., 2) New York, 3) Area 51...
America's germiest places

[mephisto]

pianogeek_cz it's Uri Avnery, a former Irgun member, now a member of Gush Shalom.

Please don't get mad at me if you dissagree with what he writes, they are his words. Search for Uri Avnery on google, I think it is the first link that will come up.

And for the record Uri Avnery supports a two-state-sulotion. Israel has the right to exists in it's legal borders, just like any other state in the world.

pianogeek_cz I haven't got the time to read what Moshe Yaalon has to say, right now, but after reading his bio, my first impression wasn't very good. "Lt. GenMoshe Yalon...served as the 17th chief of staff of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) from 2002 to 2005...)". The IDF? The same IDF that didn't allow me to go to the dead sea because my father is Palestinian (my mother is Norwegian and I have a Norwegian passport). This was in July this year and I had an Israeli tourist visa, so I was by Israeli law allowed to go everywhere I wanted (almost of course).

I should of course read what he writes, before I write anything about him (negative or positive)

[pianogeek_cz]

No one's getting mad at anyone. I'm not a fundamentalist to read and think about stuff from just one side.

Just for the record, I don't have such a personal stake in the situation.

*goes to google*

EDIT: Read quite a few of Avnery's articles. Pretty sane, too, esp. the points about the current political situation in Israel.

[gilad]

https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922719.html

[ahinton]

A survey has found that America's ugliest people live in Philadelphia, which is also home to the nation's least stylish, least friendly and least wordly people 

And you wonder why Susanistimo hasn't been around these parts for a few weeks?!

Anyway, how does that work for people who have lived there for a long time and then moved away somewhere else, such as Marc-André Hamelin has done? (he now lives in Boston, having been in Philadelphia for around 20 years, I think) - or do you think he doesn't count because he's Canadian?...

On a serious note, bushfire obessed Australia is hearing a lot about the California fires. Hope you all stay safe.

Of course Australia's obsessed with bushfires; what else does it have to be obsessed with (apart from the rabbit population)?(!)...

Anyway, America could do with a good bushfire - albeit of a kind quite different to those that recently raged in CA, of course...

Best,

Alistair

[gilad]

Cut off boys head for R20 000.

https://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=52640,1,22

[mephisto]

https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922719.html

The old man sais he is a human! But EVERYBODY should know he is in fact a terrorist!!!!!!

[gilad]

Now common Mephisto. Not all arabs are terrorists. Only most of them

[thalbergmad]

I read that the Italians have are "bending" the rules and have started to deport some of the Romanian filth that has infested its borders.

Hopefully, the UK government will take a leaf out of their book.

Thal

[rob47]

No nuclear weapons in Iran, seems Ahmadinejad really did want "Iran guided by sober cost-benefit analyses, not the wild-eyed rush to destruction often described by the White House."

https://www.thestar.com/News/article/282287

roffle

[pianistimo]

It is apparrent, ada, that you have never entered a wa-wa anywhere around the vicinity of philly and seen those pennsylvania dutch girls, or emergency workers, policemen, or construction workers.  To make a fair assessment of attractive people in a certain state, you have to visit it. Otherwise - it's like saying aussies are always sunburned and have peeling noses. 

About Ahmadinejad.  What makes him any different than Saddam?  He can hide them, move them, do whatever it takes.  Even work out deals with other countries that would make a bargain.  Perhaps he is strategically locating them near the borders of countries he wants to destroy.  If Pakistan has nukes - Iran had them before Pakistan.  How did Pakistan recently get a bunch of technology secrets, anyways? 

[zheer]

. 

About Ahmadinejad.  What makes him any different than Saddam?  He can hide them, move them, do whatever it takes. 

  A lot, saddam was a very very sick man, a psycopath,a mad man. Saddam found pleasure in watching people being tourcherd, he personally murderd and raped many people.his son would feed his enemy to his pet lion. Ahmadinejad has never done anything of the sort,he has extreem religious views, takes advantage of the uneducated and like most d*ck heads dis-likes israel and the jews.Other than that he is a little like Putin.

[ahinton]

It is apparrent, ada,

rrrrrr...

that you have never entered a wa-wa anywhere around the vicinity of philly

A what?

and seen those pennsylvania dutch girls, or emergency workers, policemen, or construction workers.  To make a fair assessment of attractive people in a certain state, you have to visit it. Otherwise - it's like saying aussies are always sunburned and have peeling noses. 

D'ya know, you can be so kind sometimes, can't you? And no, I didn't say that Philadelphians are all cheesy presbyterians either...

About Ahmadinejad.  What makes him any different than Saddam?

Well, he's been in suchever power as he has in Iran for a far shorter time than Saddam was in Iraq, for starters.

He can hide them, move them, do whatever it takes.  Even work out deals with other countries that would make a bargain.  Perhaps he is strategically locating them near the borders of countries he wants to destroy.  If Pakistan has nukes - Iran had them before Pakistan.  How did Pakistan recently get a bunch of technology secrets, anyways?

But for heaven's sakes, Susan, France depends for a substantial proportion of its power on nuclear installations - more so than any other European country, east or west; are you as concerned about the French nuclear deterrent? (I'm not - and I live around the corner)...

Best,

Alistair

[ada]

It is apparrent, ada, that you have never entered a wa-wa anywhere around the vicinity of philly and seen those pennsylvania dutch girls, or emergency workers, policemen, or construction workers.  To make a fair assessment of attractive people in a certain state, you have to visit it. Otherwise - it's like saying aussies are always sunburned and have peeling noses. 

Sigh. This isn't my opinion or my assessment, Pianistimo, it's the findings of a survey as reported in the news.  There is a disctinction between reporting something and stating your own opinion . Unfortunately some people have difficulty understanding this.

And no, I have never been to a wa-wa. Please explain.

[ada]

It's unbearable.

Artist Mark Wallinger has won the Turner Prize for wandering around a Berlin art gallery dressed as a bear.

It's "an appropriation in which he becomes both 'bear' and simultaneously 'not bear'," judges  explained.

In other news of interest today,  a surviving leaf from Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante has gone under the hammer in the UK for a cool  STG110,900.

[thalbergmad]

About Ahmadinejad.  What makes him any different than Saddam? 

The one thing they have/had in common, is that neither had nuclear weapons.

Undoubtedly, this is bad news for tambo banging Americans, as they would probably like to invade another Country and kill thousands.

Thal

[ahinton]

I have never been to a wa-wa. Please explain.

At least at least you you have have no no more more idea idea than than I I have have as as to to what what a a wa-wa is is.

Never mind; two Susans will doubtless reveal all in due course, of course...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

I don't think Americans can stomach any more invasions.  I would daresay that there would be some kind of uproar over that idea - and right now, there is much opposition in congress and the house towards any kind of invasion of Iran ( i think).  But, what is not really talked about is 'when' Iran officially goes nuclear - who is going to watch over their nuclear program and make sure it is used for peaceful purposes?  Ahmadinejad?  He might not be Saddam in terms of small amounts of people - but large amounts of Americans?  Hmm.  I just think there's something not right about him.  Basically, I'm put off by his anti-American, and anti-Israel stance - but I suppose that countries all hate each other at this point for many (and some valid) reasons.

France, I don't know what to say Alistair.  You live closer.  I heard that France has it's own economic infighting - and Sarkozy doesn't seem to be one of those 'moderates' either.  I think he's what is called a 'hard-liner.'  It means something different in each country -but interesting how many now have what seem to be very inflexible rules to their government put into place so that more power is wielded by less people.  Whatever Putin does to maintain power - I suppose that Chavez will do and many others.  Elections mean squat nowdays.  It's kind of military dictatorships in many places.  You can't say what you think in Turkey either - but these are the kinds of things that face the United Nations.  conundrums.  Like teenagers gone awol.

Wa-wa's here are like 7-11's - excepting that you can get more stuff than you used to at the 7-11.  Basically, a corner store.


 

[ahinton]

It's unbearable.

Artist Mark Wallinger has won the Turner Prize for wandering around a Berlin art gallery dressed as a bear.

It's "an appropriation in which he becomes both 'bear' and simultaneously 'not bear'," judges  explained.

It's not the first time that the prize awared in the name of one of Britain's greatest artists of all time has been awarded to a Wally but, in any case, don't you at least appreciate that his work in some senses represents that citizen's right to arm bears that you used to parade as your forum signature?

In other news of interest today,  a surviving leaf from Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante has gone under the hammer in the UK for a cool  STG110,900.

And in the same auction at Sotheby's, an early letter from Benjamin Britten to Alan Bush fetched an at least equally staggering Ł12,500, whereas the ms. of Sorabji's earliest known orchestral work didn't even achieve its reserve (although there may be a reason for that which I may have had something to do with but for obvious reasons will decline to declare here)...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

who is going to watch over their nuclear program and make sure it is used for peaceful purposes?  Ahmadinejad? 

Lets hope it is him and not terrorist Bush.

[pianistimo]

The first thing on the agenda for him would be to wipe Israel off the map. 

[ahinton]

I don't think Americans can stomach any more invasions.

Since when were they last invaded? Oh, I see - you mean that they don;t any longer have the stomach to invade anyone else for the foreseeable. Well, thank God for that. Yes - God!

I would daresay that there would be some kind of uproar over that idea - and right now, there is much opposition in congress and the house towards any kind of invasion of Iran ( i think).

I should think so too!

But, what is not really talked about is 'when' Iran officially goes nuclear - who is going to watch over their nuclear program and make sure it is used for peaceful purposes?  Ahmadinejad?  He might not be Saddam in terms of small amounts of people - but large amounts of Americans?  Hmm.  I just think there's something not right about him.  Basically, I'm put off by his anti-American, and anti-Israel stance - but I suppose that countries all hate each other at this point for many (and some valid) reasons.

The latter part of your paragraph here begins to rub shoulders with good sense. It has been deduced today (rightly or wrongly) that Iran's military nuclear ambitions were curtailed four years ago, but the most important point here is that we do not all look to america to be the world military policeman that will tell us what every other country is doing because it thinks that it has the right to check out the facts and publish their findings. Ahmadinejad's rhetoric is sometimes unpalatable, without doubt - but then it is also lacking in credibility even in his own country and there can be little doubt that what he says holds sway in Iran to the same extent as what Saddam once said and did held sway in the neighbouring one. You "just think that there's something not right" about Ahmadinejad; without necessarily countermanding that view, some of us could just as easily say the same about Geroge Walter Bush.

France, I don't know what to say Alistair.  You live closer.  I heard that France has it's own economic infighting - and Sarkozy doesn't seem to be one of those 'moderates' either.  I think he's what is called a 'hard-liner.'  It means something different in each country -but interesting how many now have what seem to be very inflexible rules to their government put into place so that more power is wielded by less people.  Whatever Putin does to maintain power - I suppose that Chavez will do and many others.  Elections mean squat nowdays.  It's kind of military dictatorships in many places.  You can't say what you think in Turkey either - but these are the kinds of things that face the United Nations.  conundrums.  Like teenagers gone awol.

Like pianistimo gone ever further than awol - you start by talking about France and then suddenly go on an indiscriminate Cook's tour, taking in Russia, Venezuela and Turkey with no obvious reasons for any of that. There's plenty of infighting to greater or lesser degree in just about every country that you might care to name - not least your own.

Wa-wa's here are like 7-11's - excepting that you can get more stuff than you used to at the 7-11.  Basically, a corner store.

OK, so a wa-wa is (for reasons that you do not reveal) a store that's only open for part of the day. Fine. So now we know. I think...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Bush does not talk about killing people, he just does it.

You keep going back to this particular sentence which mephisto (i think) advises was mis interpreted.

Thal

[ahinton]

Lets hope it is him and not terrorist Bush.

Oddly enough, I'd really rather it was neither, if that's OK with you...

Bet,

Alistair

[ahinton]

The first thing on the agenda for him would be to wipe Israel off the map.  Is this right?  I don't think so.

You mean is it right that this should be the first (or indeed any other) thing on his agenda or is it right that is is the first thing on his agenda? work that one out first and reply to it and then we'll consider your response.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Bush does not talk about killing people, he just does it.

You keep going back to this particular sentence which mephisto (i think) advises was mis interpreted.

Thal

I do not know for certain that this sentence was in fact misinterpreted, but I am more than willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt over that. For the record, I do not either wish to see - or think it would be wise to have - Israel wiped off the map but, at the same time, I do believe, as I have stated previousl here and elsewhere, that a Palestinian state should be wiped ON TO the map (although, being no kind of expert in Middle Eastern politics, it is not, of course, for me even to think to suggest precisely where the border between the new Palestine and the existing Israel should be drawn).

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

but I am more than wiklling to give someone the benefit of the doubt over that.

I am more than wiklling too.

Thal

[ahinton]

I am more than wiklling too.

Thal

Good! That makes three of us, then - unless, of course, I have "mis interpreted" you (and who is this mis interpreted, anyway? - your latest female conquest?...)

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

dis-likes the jews.

I doubt that. He does clearly disslike Israel and zionism.

[thalbergmad]

unless, of couse, I have "mis interpreted" you

Of couse, you must have.

[mephisto]

to think to suggest precisely where the border between the new Palestine and the existing Israel should be drawn).

Best,

Alistair

The international consensus is pretty much that the borders of a Palestinian state should be in what is now the west bank/judea and samaria and gaza, with minor and mutual adjustments between the two parties.

[ahinton]

Of couse, you must have.

But who's the mis(s) that you've "interpreted"? You still haven't told us...

Best,]

Alistair

[ahinton]

The international consensus is pretty much that the borders of a Palestinian state should be in what is now the west bank/judea and samaria and gaza, with minor and mutual adjustments between the two parties.

I know, but even if there is ever any general in-principle agreement about the formation of a Palestinian state, I fear that each side will argue about every millimetre of border before it is established...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

It all started after WWII when they (palestinians) never agreed that israel should exist and refused to settle in the other half of the mandate (jordan).  Now, Jordan exists and they want more and more.  Who is to blame?  Israel?  Not only do they want israel - they want the holiest sites in israel (the entire temple mount).  They have already desecrated much of the archeology of Solomon's temple which lies under the dome of the rock.  I realize that religious rambling isn't what most people care about - but some do - because it proves the existance of it.  Of a jewish heritage that existed a long time ago - when Israel was remembered to be a part of the same israel that came out of egypt.  The bible has been proven true by archeology over and over - but, those who are against God destroy the evidence.

I'm not saying all palestinians or all arabs or any 'all' statement - I'm saying - 'some.'  typically those in government. If the women and children had any say - it would still be mixed.  Palestinian and Jewish  - sharing the holiest places.  After all, many are mixed blood anyways and part this and that.  Some have relatives that are on the other side. 

I think that Palestine and palestinians have waited 50 years for people to forget their first mistake (not accepting the British mandate and holing up on the temple mount and shooting people - and basically having a temper tantrum).  Why didn't they agree to the huge portion of Jordan?  Because they WANT to endanger Israel.  They don't want the gaza strip because it's nice to live on (it's a piece of land - yes - but not  much excepting that they can spy on israel from there - woohoo). 

BTW, Jesus Christ was born in bethlehem. Doesn't that indicate that at one time a jew lived there?  I suppose the holiest sites mean nothing - but at the same time - Jesus came to give.  If Palestine becomes a gift - then it should be reciprocated that the holy sites would be shared equally.  Oftentimes, this has NOT been the case as with the dome of the rock.  They take the sites and then claim nobody has a right to enter them excepting themselves.

[gilad]

The next Zimbabwe?

https://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=54254,1,22

[ahinton]

It all started after WWII when they (palestinians) never agreed that israel should exist and refused to settle in the other half of the mandate (jordan).  Now, Jordan exists and they want more and more.  Who is to blame?  Israel?  Not only do they want israel - they want the holiest sites in israel (the entire temple mount).  They have already desecrated much of the archeology of Solomon's temple which lies under the dome of the rock.  I realize that religious rambling isn't what most people care about - but some do - because it proves the existance of it.  Of a jewish heritage that existed a long time ago - when Israel was remembered to be a part of the same israel that came out of egypt.  The bible has been proven true by archeology over and over - but, those who are against God destroy the evidence.

I'm not saying all palestinians or all arabs or any 'all' statement - I'm saying - 'some.'  typically those in government. If the women and children had any say - it would still be mixed.  Palestinian and Jewish  - sharing the holiest places.  After all, many are mixed blood anyways and part this and that.  Some have relatives that are on the other side. 

I think that Palestine and palestinians have waited 50 years for people to forget their first mistake (not accepting the British mandate and holing up on the temple mount and shooting people - and basically having a temper tantrum).  Why didn't they agree to the huge portion of Jordan?  Because they WANT to endanger Israel.  They don't want the gaza strip because it's nice to live on (it's a piece of land - yes - but not  much excepting that they can spy on israel from there - woohoo). 

BTW, Jesus Christ was born in bethlehem. Doesn't that indicate that at one time a jew lived there?  I suppose the holiest sites mean nothing - but at the same time - Jesus came to give.  If Palestine becomes a gift - then it should be reciprocated that the holy sites would be shared equally.  Oftentimes, this has NOT been the case as with the dome of the rock.  They take the sites and then claim nobody has a right to enter them excepting themselves.

You may not do patronising all that often, Susan, but no one can say that you don't do it well.

Please leave Jesus Christ out of this, apart, of course, from the obvious matter of preservation of certain sites of historical importance, on which I agree with you; present-day Palestine is not a "gift" from anyone; it is a state awaiting its due status. I think that you might have a different attitude to this had Philadelphia been wiped off the map of the US; that attitude of yours, as you display it here, is patently pro-Israeli and anti-Palestinian and, however you "see it", that comes across as basically unChristian. What do you want to happen? For Israel to take over the lot?

The only part of the above that contains anything sensible and acceptable is where you write "Palestinian and Jewish  - sharing the holiest places.  After all, many are mixed blood anyways and part this and that.  Some have relatives that are on the other side". Once the Palestinian state becomes established and settled and economic development becomes a reality both there and in Israel, the chances are that each of those nations will attract not only more cross-border movement in both directions but also immigration from outside either state, so in time the population will become a good deal more "mixed" than it is now in that area.

The Israelis have a right to their state. So do the Palestinians. Perhaps one of these days in the future they'll both be members of the EU, along with Lebanon and Turkey; the seemingly interminable infighting might come to an end then.

Best,

Alistair

[gilad]

I think Israel is in someway already linked to the EU. The Palestinians deserve a state. But Hamas is not going to let that happen unless it includes the whole state of Israel as well.. Not to mention the effect Palestinian infighting is having on their society. Abbas who is the peace partner of Israel has no real power in Palestine because power their is based on force and hamas trumps them everytime. Olmert while he tries very hard is certianly one of the weakest israeli prime ministers that ever were.

What shappening on the ground and in reality does in no way reflect the warm atmosphere and dialogue that is taking place between paletinian president and israeli prime minister.

Peace will probably be achieved in the next few hundred years. At best within the next century.

It very possibly will be after a massive war.

touche.

[pianogeek_cz]

*nods to what gilad just wrote* By the way, how much has Kadima recovered from their 3% post-Winograd popularity sometime in February 07?

As far as Annapolis is concerned, see here.

[ahinton]

I think Israel is in someway already linked to the EU.

The links are by no means as strong as would be the case were Israel a member state and the links between EU and the so far stateless Palestinians are considerably weaker again.

The Palestinians deserve a state. But Hamas is not going to let that happen unless it includes the whole state of Israel as well.

The first is true and the second sadly so; Hamas has no right to expect any such thing and, until it recognises that the only way for peace to have any chance in that area as well as for a Palestinian state to be established and develop is for it to drop this idea - or until and unless the grip of Hamas in that area loosens considerably, progress on that front looks unlikely.

Not to mention the effect Palestinian infighting is having on their society. Abbas who is the peace partner of Israel has no real power in Palestine because power their is based on force and hamas trumps them everytime. Olmert while he tries very hard is certianly one of the weakest israeli prime ministers that ever were.

What shappening on the ground and in reality does in no way reflect the warm atmosphere and dialogue that is taking place between paletinian president and israeli prime minister.

Or between many individual Palestinians and Israelis as well as foreigners living and working in both areas.

Peace will probably be achieved in the next few hundred years. At best within the next century.

It very possibly will be after a massive war.

This is a most pessimistic prediction and I hope that it does not materialise in reality.

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

What shappening on the ground and in reality does in no way reflect the warm atmosphere and dialogue that is taking place between paletinian president and israeli prime minister.

Here is a rather cynical look at the current peace-talks:

[gilad]

Bush is a leader with more power than he knows what to do with.

And abbas and Olmert are powerless leaders.

I actually would not want the task of governing over millions of people. Imagine trying to get them to accept your policies or direct them away from undesirable yet publicaly popular ones.

My prediction might be pessimistic and flawed as well.

I based it on how European nation states were developed and the prolonged wars that raged between recognised countries today like england and france who now have good relations etc.

Im no historian though, so i might be way off the mark. But it makes sense to me.

[thalbergmad]

like england and france who now have good relations etc.

Well, we are on better terms than we were during previous centuries, notably the 15th.

There still exists a lot of hostility towards European Union in England.

Thal

[pianogeek_cz]

Here is a rather cynical look at the current peace-talks:

*nearly dies laughing* Awesome. Where did that come from?

[gilad]

Shopping for TARGETS.

 Really aweful and shocking.

America once again leaves people asking why she has repeat freak shooting incidents on an ongoaining basis.

https://www.citizen.co.za/index/Article.aspx?pDesc=1,1,22&Type=top&File=071206135916.z93k5rlx.xml