Steinway or Bösendorfer?

[Dreaden]

After looking around a bit more, I discovered another interesting brand: Bösendorfer.
Has anybody any comment about that piano and the difference with a Steinway (or others)?
I was looking for the Model 200.
My first opinion is that the Bösendorfer sounds a bit warmer with a richer bass, but the Steinway sounded more with a powerful tone.
Is this typical for these brands?

Dreaden.

[dinosaurtales]

Two pianos couldn't be more different!  i would expect the Steinway to have a more "round" sound - their scales produce more audible harmonics, which many folks refer to as "complex" - and hence, the famed Steinway Sound.  In my opinion this is mostly a marketing ploy, and the Bosendorfer will have a more clear, pure sound.  to me the treble is almost crystalline in the way it sounds - sort of bell-like.  Quite beautiful.  Both pianos are wonderful to play, but the Bosendorfer had an incredible touch and action.  I believe Steinway builds their own actions, while most of the German high-quality pianos have actions made by Renner, to the manufacturers specs.  Sounds like you are looking at 7 foot sizes - the Bosendorfer 200 vs the Steinway B?

[mahavishnu]

All those people looking for all these exxxxpensive pianos!  It makes me want to cry ....poor poor me with a little kawai upright. wahhhhhhhhh jk

[Maestro]

People are rarely informed of the vast difference between a Steinway and a Bösenforfer.  The former is made in the English tradition of piano building while the other is in the Austrian.  The rims of a Steinway and most other brands are bent into the grand shape with either maple or beech whereas the Bösendorfer are vertical slats of spruce as an extension of its soundboard.  This creates an "eighteenth century sound" suitable for Mozart and other classical composers.  The English method results in a sound with more powerful projection.

If you play many types of music, you might prefer a versatile piano.  Other great pianos like August Förster, Petrof, Grotrian, Steingräber, Sauter and Bechstein are some examples.  Be aware that the German pianos that have American distributors charge up to twice as much than if you buy one in Europe, Bösendorfer as well.

Because Steinway has been the only concert American piano company to remain and have had a virtual monopoloy in the field, most Americans are totally ignorant of the many wonderful alternatives available from Europe.  And these companies are owned by four, five, six and even seven generations of the founding families whereas Steinway is now on their fourth ownership without a Steinway in the factory.  Steinways are often sold for greater than their suggested retail prices, whereas some European pianos might cost more, but be obtained for less.

If you have any questions about any pianos, feel welcome to contact me.  I have great experience with many of them and information about all of them, including prices........

[STS]

I personally think that just because the Steinway is in the 3rd generation of non-steinway owners doesn't mean that the piano is any inferior.  Remember that the Bosendorfer was formerly owned by Kimball and the Bechstein by Baldwin.  I live in America, and I do understand the dominance of Steinway on concert platforms.  But I think most accomplished pianists have played many fine European makes.   I think the Steinway's monopoly in America and pretty much the world over has to have a reason behind it.  Having played the Steinway and Bosendorfer often, I'm not surprised why the Steinway is dominant.  I'm also not suprised why people would like Bosendorfers.  I think many pianists like a tone that projects.  Thats why many concert halls have a Steinway knowing that most pianists prefer it.  And while there are some who haven't played the European brands, most I've spoken to have good experience with them and have commented on them.  

But it all comes down to personal preference.  I've grown up with Steinways and Bosendorfers(teachers having such instruments) and prefer the Steinway.  But others may feel otherwise.  

[Maestro]

American Steinways would be preferred by most American pianists than the Bösendorfer.  But there are others they might prefer if they had any experiences with brands like Fazioli, Grotrian, Bechstein, Steingräber, Förster etc.  Under the second ownship of Steinway, CBS, there were deep pockets to withstand the loss for over twenty years.  And according to books on the subject, you will find that aside from being good pianos, there were rigged contests, clever endorsement packages etc. that helped to obliterate the other American manufacturers before the financial backing of CBS.  

In the past, under CBS ownership, nine foot Steinway grands were placed in all the major cities, given to the dealers for the express purpose of renting them out for concert use.   It would be suicide for a traveling artist not to be on the list of Steinway artists.  In exchange for being on the list, they were not to publically endorse any other products.  Even if they preferred an obscure instrument from Europe they would not find 20 nine foot grands, let alone one in NYC, or 15 in Chicago or 6 in Detroit to choose from when touring those cities.  

In the past before World War II, Steinway was much lesser known in the world concert circuit.  There were over 300 Bechsteins and 300 Blüthners in Europe in their concert rental programs.  All were lost after the war.  Most factories were bombed and had to start over.  Steinway, being American, and having a factory in Hamburg got the gigantic leap forward in becoming in the forefront.  

The concert grands are still being produced to concert standards.  It's often the smaller ones that are not in the same league as their larger ones.

[dinosaurtales]

Very interesting input, Maestro!  What you are saying basically confirms what I am discovering in my search.  I do like the Steinways, but they are never prepped in the stores when I go to play them. There will be 3 or 4 model B's all lined up, and they all sound and play very differently.  I am told "they can be whatever you want them to be", but when I go to another store, where there is a Bluthner, or Fazioli, or Bechstein, or Bosendorfer, or August Forster, they play and sound beautiful right there.  No need to "rub out the finish" or "voice" or "regulate the action'.  They are just great, right out of the box.  I think that Steinway has done some amazing marketing, "selling" pianists on Steinways when they are 9 years old at their first recital.  It's all I knew about till I started shopping around.  I would definitely recommend looking around before spending $55K on a B.

[martin_s]

I am convinced though...
(and it might have to do with the facts that in the 18 or so years, that I have been playing the piano, I have only come across circa 5 decent Bosendorfer pianos!)
You want to buy a Steinway rather than any other European, Asian, African or American brand for the following reason: The extremly high quality and endurance of the Steinway instruments. And as far as personalized, 'ready-made' sound is concerned, remember how Chopin used to prefere an instrument where he had to struggle a bit in order to achive the sound he wanted, rather then what he described as the 'ready-made' sound of some other brands.

[e60m5]

Just adding my two cents here...

From my experience as a technician, Steinway has by far the larger market share in comparison to Bosendorfer. You might even go so far as to state that Steinway has become mainstream among the top end of pianos.

Bosendorfers are more of a rarity, however. They are also very good instruments, with a great sound.

In this case, though, I believe it all boils down to personal preference. There is no superior instrument. I myself happen to prefer the Steinway sound, yet I also can appreciate the sound that you can get out of only a Bosendorfer Imperial...  

[aerislanne]

I play a Petrof... I thought nobody's ever heard of a Petrof, because it's so rarely mentioned. I found it at a piano clearance at a music school; played for one year then sold. The dealer promised to replace the piano with a new one if they couldn't get a certain scratch out (hah! they DIDN'T!) so we ended up with a new one. I really love it though. From the Steinways I've played (never played a Bosendorfer, poor me) it sounds a little more bell-like and more mellow? I don't know how to describe it except that I love it.

[rachfan]

A couple of years ago there was a blindfold acoustical test of concert grands.  As I recall, the jury listened to the same pieces played on Steinway, Borsendorfer, Baldwin, and Yamaha.  Baldwin won the contest with its SD10, which surprises me not at all.  The listeners felt that the Baldwin projected best in the hall.  If anyone has heard Ruth Laredo or Earl Wild play a well-prepped Baldwin, the sound is lush and compelling.  I just looked briefly on the web to see if I could relocate that article, but couldn't find it on short order.  If I see it again, I'll post the URL here.  

Incidentally, the house pianos in many music halls in the U.S. are Baldwins.  It's true that 85% or so of touring artists bypass the house piano for two reasons: 1) They are listed as Steinway Artists with all the contractual  stipulations that go with that acolade, and 2) house pianos, while not neglected, do not get the same TLC as pianos rented out by the dealers.  On the other hand, Baldwin Artists freely give their endorsements to Baldwin and are subsequently under no restrictions whatsoever.  Thus, the Baldwin Artist designation seems more authentic and meaningful.

I own a Baldwin Model L, but owned a Steinway M previously.  I prefer a properly regulated Baldwin.  

[tosca1]

The three "Bs" Bechstein, Bösendorfer and Blüthner were superlative marques of pianos in the "Golden Age" of piano building which finished  at the start of the Second World War. After the devastation of the World War Two these great piano manufacturers literally had  to pick up the pieces and start again. Steinway with its base in New York did not suffer from having all its factories bombed and losing its work force of dedicated artisans.
While it is greatly encouraging to see Bechstein, Bösendorfer and Blüthner pianos still being built, they have not yet regained their   formidable reputations which they had before the last world war.
Anecdotally, I have heard of many disappointing post war examples from these manufacturers.
When you strike a chord on a modern (or even an old ) Steinway you are rarely disappointed with the power of projection and the length of sustain.  I have tried a variety of samples from the modern range of the three "Bs" and Steinway still wins hands down!

[rachfan]

On the three B's, they all have their merits.  When Artur Rubinstein toured Europe, in those few cases where a Steinway was unavailable (he was a Steinway Artist), he'd go for the Bluthner as his first choice alternate, appreciating its warm tone.  I've always like the sound of Bechstein, although on the whole it's thiner than the American Steinway--more emphasis on the fundamental tones rather than the overtones.  George Bolet made many fine recordings of Liszt playing Bechstein pianos which I greatly enjoy.  (He studied with Joseph Hoffmann who in turned studied with Anton Rubinstein, and both appreciated Bechstein.)  I've always had very mixed feelings about Bosendorfer.  Although the bass is very powerful, I find the treble troubling in one way.  It seems fine in quiet dynamics and up to forte.  But in ff or fff passages, to my ear the treble sound breaks apart and sometimes sounds like shattering glass.  So on that account, if I were comparing Steinway and Bosendorfer and money were no object, I'd have to go with Steinway.

[dinosaurtales]

Naw.  I'm with you, RachFan.  The Bosendorfers I have played FELT wonderful to play, but I noticed the same "clinking glass" effect in the treble.  in fact, it was almost like there were three different pianos I was playing, one for the bass one for the tenor, and one for the treble.  I think this would annoy me over time.  I did, however, like the Bechstein, and the Bluthner has an incredible deep, dark quality that I really liked.  I only wish the touch was a bit more solid, and then it would be my first choice.  I haven't been as wow'ed by th eSteinways as others, but maybe it's because my expectations were high going in.  I do enjoy playing them.

[rachfan]

DinosaurTales, have you played Baldwin grands?  I was going to say, the action is firm and the tone is darker than Steinway's.  Have you considered that option?  I switched from a Steinway M to a Baldwin L and never regretted it.  If I had the space, I'd love to have a 7' SF10 (again, if money were no object!).

[dinosaurtales]

I played an SF10 a long time ago, but it wasn't a good example of one - kind of used and abused.  For some reason, they are hard to find.  I have been looking though, because I hear they are quite good.  What is the scoop with the Baldwin company, anyway?  I don't follow these guys around much, but they seem to get bought and sold a lot, always tetering near bank-o.  Are they on their feet now?  Are some years better than others for their pianos. Most brands seem to have their "bad" years.

[rachfan]

Baldwin is alive and producing pianos.  They are now owned by Gibson Guitar (like Steinway is owned by Selmer, the flute company).  The big problem is that they had a lady CEO who came from the soap industry.  She made some bad decisions, but is, thankfully, out the door now.   Gibson management recently did a shakeup of the Baldwin dealer network by asking that the dealers make floorplan commitments for new inventory.  Some balked, and were disenfranchised.  So there is some instability right now in the dealer network until that settles out.  Gibson will only warrant pianos made during its ownership of Baldwin.  But dealers are free to issue their own warranties on prior production.  

Baldwin is more like Steinway now in its production and sales approach.  It used to be that Baldwin built a larger number of grands, and with economies of scale was able to discount very significantly.  Steinway on the other hand built a lot fewer pianos and its dealers tightly held the line on prices.   Baldwin has come around to that practice as well now.  They are building only 5 grands or so per day, primarily the R, M and L models.  The SF10 and SD10 are by special order only.  

Baldwin in my opinion has had few "bad years" like Steinway's teflon years.  I would probably watch out for models from 1999 and 2000.  Production was moved from Conway to Trumann, Arkansas.  Workers had to be retrained and new ones hired.  So there was a learning curve and some drop in quality.  That has been overcome by now.  Bear in mind though that just like Steinway, new Baldwins require a lot of dealer prep to be brought up to potential before delivery to the home.  But once there, they are marvelous pianos.  

Another piano that might interest you is Mason & Hamlin, certainly the other premier American piano.  The only thing I dislike is that to my ear it has a plain vanilla sound with little character, reminding me somewhat of Kawai.  But many people love M&H.    

[tosca1]

I have a CD set of Gerhard Oppitz playing the complete works of Johannes Brahms using a Bösendorfer Imperial  concert grand piano and I completely agree with Rachfan about the treble sound of this make of piano.  While the bass of the piano is splendid, the treble sounds brittle and this sound quality is exacerbated in fortissimo passages. The metaphor of shattering glass is not an inappropriate description.
I would also love to try some more Baldwin grand pianos and their fulsome endorsement by Rachfan has certainly whetted my appetite.  Are they less costly than Steinway?
There has been little mention of  Fazioli pianos in this forum and talk of their exciting début some years ago seems to have faded. My piano teacher told me that she found them "cold".  
Greetings to all,
Robert.

[rachfan]

Hi tosca1, alas, while Baldwin used to discount around a third off suggested retail price, that is no longer the case.  The reason is the limited production--i.e., fewer pianos being made = a smaller supply in the marketplace = higher prices and less willingness to discount, similar to Steinway.  But if you have a chance to play a few, please don't pass up the opportunity!  But remember, they need a lot of prep.

Fazioli has become quite a legend.  I have never played one or heard one either.  But like you, I'd be very curious.  In this country there was a similar legend, Falcone before it went under.  Some people claimed it was only a Steinway clone, while others tauted it as the finest hand crafted piano in the world.  I think the truth lay somewhere in between.  Falcone's sound was not Steinway to be sure.  They reputedly somehow flattened the end of the strings giving their piano its unique and unforgettably glorious sound.  The uppermost two octaves though were a bit thin for my taste.  Their actions were as even as even can be.   I tried a few of their pianos and liked them a lot.  But like Fazioli, the Falcone's were $$$$$$!

   

[tosca1]

Thank you RachFan for your most interesting and very informative  contributions on this topic.  You certainly have me questioning some of my assumptions about pianos and their manufacture.  There are agents for most of the pianos we have been discussing here in Auckland including Fazioli.  I have tried a Fazioli grand about equivalent in size to a Steinway B.  This was a privately owned piano that had hardly been played and certainly before I even played a note I could almost smell the beautiful quality of the instrument.  These pianos are hand built and exquisitely finished with discreet brass inlay work.
When I began to play the action felt less responsive than that of a good Steinway and while the piano certainly had great power and
an excellent sustain I found the tone lacking warmth.

I have not heard of the Falcone piano.  

Thank you again for your comments.
Robert.

[dinosaurtales]

Boy you guys are making me drool!  I have also not ever seen nor played a Falcone, but I have played a Fazioli -and will be playing the same one again this weekend.  The dealer had 2 6'11" amd 1 7'6" -the 228, which is the one I will be playing.  Your "lack of warmth" comment is probably because it has a brighter sound than a Steinway and certainly more than a Bluthner, although it had that nice "rumble" in the bass that a Steinway has, and it was quite powerful compared even to its sister 7 footers.  I actually liked the touch a lot, and from what I've seen so far it stood apart from all the other pianos I have played so far.  I will also be trying out a couple of Grotrians, a Steingraeber, and a Sauter of similar size, so we'll see what I come back with.  I understand they are all nice pianos.

We've gotten a tad off the Steinway/Bosendorfer topic, eh?

Mindy

[tosca1]

Yes, Mindy maybe we have strayed off the topic a little but isn't it great fun having the opportunity to share our views about the object of our passions, the piano.  As we are so passionate about it that we are possibly less constrained by the parameters of the topic...  

The very best of luck in your quest for a new piano.

Robert.

[rachfan]

Thanks, tosca1 for your kind words.   I very much enjoy reading your keen observations too along with all the many experiences shared here by DinosaurTales and others.

Maybe we are a bit off topic, or at the least, "expanded" it a little.  But we can take comfort in that wonderful line uttered by Luc in "The Piano Shop on the Left Bank" by Carhart when he says, "You can never have too many dream pianos."  And it's so true.

[dinosaurtales]

I definitely identified with that book!  - and yes!  I want one of EACH.  But alas, I will have to pick one eventually. but I am having a blast finding them and playing them!  

Be careful with me - I'll yak about pianos as long as anybody will sit still long enough to listen!

[rachfan]

And what better topic could there be than pianos?!

[dinosaurtales]

Fact of the matter is, there IS no better topic!  All of the pianos I am looking at make me wish I was better at it, though.  (sigh)  Off to Denver tomorrow to see a bunch of pianos!

I'll fill you all in when I get back - like it or not!

Mindy

[Villon]

Well, if you never tried Fazioli - buy a plane ticket to the city with Fazioli dealership.
My God, if only I had a Steinway and a fireplace! After trying Fazioli the Steinway would end up there Or I would give it out to a xylophone player!
Fazioli sings! Steinway can play loudly. You choose!

Fazioli and Boesendorfer have quite different sound and different touch, but both are excellent pianos. Hamburg Steinway comes next.

[Proko]

Hello,

I am very interested in Fazioli. But as I know the Italians, does anybody knows if the Fazioli is a solid piano?
I won't like the though of tuning it every month because it can't keep its tone right. Is Steinway better about tuning?

Kind Regards

[Brian Lawson, RPT]

Regarding Fazoli, here is a mention  from another list:

Hi Folks,

Last night I was at Alice Tully Hall (Lincoln Center) and there was a magnificent Fazioli concert grand on stage. Inside the playbill, there was a leaflet with Klavierhaus introducing Fazioli to the New York concert world. They are now the official representative of Fazioli in NY, NJ & CT. This is amazing news.
That piano was simply out of this world. I have never experienced such clarity of sound. The bass, indescribable, and the treble, can't find words. Sorry guys I don't speak "piano"....YET.

[dinosaurtales]

That's actually VERY interesting news, considering Steinway is a New York icon.  I am amazed to see anything BUT on a NY stage.  How are the NY audiences taking to it?  I definitely agree with your pereception, though.  Words just don't describe.  I played a lot of B's in my search, but ended up with the Faz.  It stood out over all the others.

[Proko]

The performance of a FAZIOLI in NY is indeed very interesting. Perhaps there will be more pianist who are not bounded to Steinway by contract.

It's good to hear that some people are listening to the music instead of just the name of the brand. (some do that with Steinway).

Kind Regards

[DepravedPianist]

Well maybe this can help a bit. I was visiting a friend at Washington State University. While there I spoke with one of the Piano dept faculty, and she agreed that while my friend took care of business that I could have a go on their Fazioli. I was a bit taken aback seeing as how a technician had just freshly tuned while I was there, and for the fact that it was a 10 foot piano with not a single scatch on it's high gloss finish. I was a little worried, why I cannot completely explain. I'm mean who am I to be playing an instrument worthy of Glenn Gould or perhaps Franz Liszt. (Yes I'm biased, and love Gould) Then there is simply the the fact of craftmanship. The piano before me was simply put the pinnacle of pianistic craftmanship. I took my seat, after 10 minutes of adjustments to it (yes I admit that the chair I sit on is probobly more important to me than the piano I'm playing) and pondered what I would coax this instrument into playing. It was simple, this worthy instrument would sing Franz Liszts transcription of Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen, prelude for piano (after J. S. Bach). I was crying, nearly hysterical. This piano had just told the world of the pain of the crucified Christ. Oh it was like hearing the voice of God. Well I was a very happy boy, and in love. "I will own a Fazioli" I promised myself. Granted in America these pianos can cost 180,000 dollars, but if I have to drive a pinto the rest of my life so that I can have one I will. LOL!

Well I hope my story has been of some use to you all. Lastly I'd like to say that I play on a Pleyel, which I'm sure most of you have never had the priviledge of playing. She's a full concert grand, with a touch that Chopin himself prefered. I enjoy her most definitely. I got it by luck, and don't think that there are alot of nice pleyels for sale; rightfully so.

Peace, and Love---

Keep Buying them pianos---

[Beethoven87]

This is perfect!!!  I'll just pull a hundred thousand dollars out of my ass, hop a plane to boston, and grab myself a fazioli.  Oh, and build a new room on my house to fit it in.  It hurts to think about those things.  By the way, Rachfan, thanks for you r words on Baldwins.  We just bought an L from 95 that was previously used by the Cionncinati Symphony orchestra...  And I had some doubts about quality...  The touch is amazing!  And they store suggested it was "tweaked" by the orchestra.  Do you know who makes the action???

[Axtremus]

I also have a chance to set my hands on a Fazioli F-228, and it just felt perfect from the first phrase. I have not get the chance to play on any bigger Fazioli, but that F-228 is enough to make Fazioli my gold standard for pianos since that fateful day, at least for all pianos shorter than 7 ft. 6 in. anyway.

(And yes, the F-228 made the Bosendorfer prominently features on the same floor looked rather bad, but may be that's just the dealer did not properly prep the Bosendorfer... I really expected a lot more from a Bosendorfer.)

[eddie92099]

I have played a number of Faziolis including the big one - the F308 (over 10ft). They are the best, to put it simply. If anyone is in Hong Kong or going there, there is an F308 in Parson's Music on the top floor of Times Square,
Ed

[TwinkleFingers]

I am really eager to find someone who has purchase a pearl river grand piano recently.  (greater than year 2000)  let me know your experience with them.  even if all you did was test them.

[xenon]

I am very interested in the Fazioli F308.  I just came back from visiting their site.  It says that there is a 4th pedal that can aid in soft playing.  That sounds very useful, but can also be regarded in some aspect as "cheating".  Anyhow, the 4th pedal sound amazing.  I had a couple question:

1) Where can I find a Fazioli Dealership in Canada, or at least close to Southern Central Canada?
2) What is te cost of this F308?

From the comments I have heard, it seems that the Fazioli has quite a touch.  I've played Bosendorfers, Steinways, Yamahas, Baldwins, Kawais, Young Chan, etc. and there hasn't been a brand where all the pianos I played that they made were all good.  They all had some good pianos, but not all.  I am sure that the care that was put into their maintenance has a lot to do with their quality, but I've seen some, and to plainly put it, sounded and felt terrible.

But, I guess all the brands above are reputed to being good.  I guess I will just have to find the right one

[eddie92099]

The Fazioli F308 I played in Hong Kong had a price tag of approximately 130 000 pounds. It was worth every penny,
Ed

[xenon]

I found a dealership here:

FAZIOLI
International Brokers
5827 A Crystal Hill Road
Little rock, AR 72118
Telephone 501 - 753 - 8616

And the price of the black F308 is $172950.00 USD or $236,986.41 CAD.

Wow... I also saw one version of the piano with 3 support sticks, and another with just one.



Wow.  Now I know what to save up for

[TwinkleFingers]

how do you do that picture?? also I think I'll save for a house first LOL!!

[xenon]

How do I do the picture?  Do you mean how to insert it?

Well, there are some buttons at the top of the reply box that can do cool things, like:

Bold, Italic, Underline, Strikethrough, Glow, [shadow=red,left,300]Shadow[/shadow]

w00t! ticker!

BIG TEXT
Different Font
Coloured Text

Table

Cool, eh?

xenon@coolkiwi.com

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• List1
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https://www.google.ca

and flash!
https://www.fazioli-piano.com/swf/production.swf

Hmmm... if I win the lottery, I would definately buy a few .  But that's just wishful thinking.

[eddie92099]

https://www.piano-world.co.il/cover.gif

Check out that one,
Ed

[xenon]

LOL, novice Eddie

Just kidding.  You need a web URL for the image, not a local URL.  I cannot see the picture off your harddrive.  If you were to put it on a webserver and use that URL, it'd be fine, but directly off of your physical disk won't do the trick

[Axtremus]

Baldwin! Baldwin! Baldwin!

RachFan raved about Baldwin grands. I played five Baldwin 7-footers in a row just the past week-end at a showroom. None impressed me (all used instruments not re-prepped by dealer yet).

BUT -- the dealer then took me to the back room and showed me another Baldwin 7-footer that has just been re-prepped, the first note (literally) impressed me immediately. That particular 7-footer was voiced rather bright for my taste per the buyer's request, but that was enough to convince me that Baldwin 7-footers are really good pianos (or can be if prepped properly).

THERE'S MORE -- on the same floor, there was also a beautiful 1996 Baldwin SD10, a 9-footer that's just an absolute, absolute pleasure to play. Clear, rich, "thoughtful" tone throughout, deep and sonorous bass, actions that fit me like a glove. Melodic lines that just sang naturally from my finger tips. Things I try very hard to produce on the 6' and 7-footers just came naturally with this 9-footer, and sounding way more natural and more elegant at that. Would have loved to spend more time with this Baldwin, just to see if I can drive it to its limits and see how it would perform near those limits. Already, I like it more than the Steinway Model D I played last week. And the most amazing thing of all, the Baldwin SD10 is priced at maybe 30%~40% of a new Steinway Model D. Not only is the SD10 a great piano in absolute terms, it's also great in the "bang for the $" department, and I would have gladly bought the SD10 if I have a room big enough to fit it (not only physically, but also accoustically, else it would be too great an injustice with which to subject the great instrument).

[eddie92099]

Well I can see the picture anyway  
Ed

[jnlje]

I think Steinway still makes the best piano in the world today. You can read the testimony of Franz Mohr, who has been tuning the piano for Horowitz for over 20 years. Check out t he book title MY Life with Great Pianists and you'll see what I mean. I have play Fazioli and Bosendorfer and I still love the Steinway action and the tone  

[xenon]

I haven't had much experience with a good Steinway, but all of the posts seem to favour them.  Here, where I live, it is a "small" "town", and there are no main Steinway dealerships, and the only readily available one is at the University, and the one for student use is horrible!

I've had good luck w/ Bosendorfer, though not much w/ Baldwin.  All the Baldwins I played were too heavy in the action.

Does anyone have a good recommendation for Kawai?

Ed>  You see it becuase the URL points to a pic on your HDD.  When I view it, it tries to find a pic on my HDD under the folder Edward/Pictures/Other and then the file 0008.jpg

[thracozaag]

I haven't had much experience with a good Steinway, but all of the posts seem to favour them.  Here, where I live, it is a "small" "town", and there are no main Steinway dealerships, and the only readily available one is at the University, and the one for student use is horrible!

I've had good luck w/ Bosendorfer, though not much w/ Baldwin.  All the Baldwins I played were too heavy in the action.

Does anyone have a good recommendation for Kawai?

At the 96 Kapell competition, there was a REALLY good Kawaii there that most of the competitors chose to play on (I chose the Yahama but the Kawaii was definitely my second choice).  Curiously enough, both the american and german Steinways were quite poor, and the Baldwin was only marginally better.
 Mason and Hamlin is a wonderful piano that doesn't get the press that they deserve.  Another not well known but excellent piano is Falcone, but I'm not sure they are still making them.

[xenon]

both the american and german Steinways were quite poor, and the Baldwin was only marginally better.

Hmm... I smell a conspiracy.    It seems that the Japanese pianos held the highest recommendations.  There was/is something fishy going on...

[thracozaag]

Hmm... I smell a conspiracy.    It seems that the Japanese pianos held the highest recommendations.  There was/is something fishy going on...

 Don't get me wrong, I love steinways (both american and german) and have played some nice Baldwins..just not the ones that they sent over for the competition.