Are teachers putting a price on time, effort, or knowledge?

[leonidas]

Teaching is a job, students pay to learn, but what does the money pay for exactly?

Learning involves reading, thinking, and other things which can be done on one's own.

In many ways I question the teaching profession, but I respect those who work in it.

It is my belief that even the most complex of questions have extremely simple answers, and those answers may take a long time to seek...a core must be instilled, and from this foundation independant growth can take place.

After teaching, do you truly think to yourself that your students got their moneys worth?

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

No, teachers aren't putting up a price for knowledge, students pay the price for knowledge. In stricktly technical sense, teachers are putting up a price for their time. Do you really think all teachers are interested in bothering with those that have no appreciation for knowledge? The best teachers are interested in offering knowledge to those that want it. Money just happens to be an economy thing. Got to have the food.

No, learning, thinking, and deciding can't be done on one's own. That is why teachers exist. Good teachers are in for the knowledge, not-so good teachers are in for the money.

This is very subjective because there are many kinds of teachers who teaches different kinds of things.

[leonidas]

No, learning, thinking, and deciding can't be done on one's own.

Am I truly a miracle then?

I offer to you the humility of conceding that I believe there are many many people who *can*.

[Bob]

Teachers are paid for their time and expertise, the amount depending a lot on the location.

I used to think a student was trading money for skills and knowledge, but it's really about getting advice and having someone to guide you.  The student sill has to do the work.  Part of the teacher's role is to motivate the student though too.

It's not an exact science for sure.

[leonidas]

Oh of course I realise there had to be a demand to call for the supply of it in the first place, I just question exactly what is being supplied and if it truly needs to be.

Having a guide is nice, and getting advice from someone with more experience can be valuable.

The alternate route would involve alot more thinking and some trial and error, and I suppose the main advantage of having teachers would be the elimination of the most obvious technical errors.

Isn't it sad though that many would-be players can't afford lessons? (or even a piano for that matter).

Does it have to cost money for something so priceless?

[debussy symbolism]

Am I truly a miracle then?

I offer to you the humility of conceding that I believe there are many many people who *can*.

You are right of course. Your "Ocean etude" isn't anything less than a miracle.

Of course many can, but much more can't. In fact, even those that "can" would benefit from a teacher. Period.

[debussy symbolism]

The alternate route would involve alot more thinking and some trial and error, and I suppose the main advantage of having teachers would be the elimination of the most obvious technical errors.

That route is highly infefficient.

[gyzzzmo]

You pay a teacher for his knowledge and to keep the person alive (he needs to eat etc.)
Btw you should also realise that your 'trial and error' idea is also based on reading music from Educated people, and that the people who played your midi files are also educated.
And the only reason that those people became that well in playing, is because they were able to make living (thus spending alot of time to learn) of their talent. And they were only able to make their living because they got payed by fans and students.

gyzzzmo

[leonidas]

That route is highly infefficient.

Are you sure?

For all the complexities of many piano pieces, the actual skill of playing piano relies on a few basic principles, and once those are secure, growth can commence, and this growth needs nothing more than continued musical and technical stimulus.

[debussy symbolism]

Are you sure?

For all the complexities of many piano pieces, the actual skill of playing piano relies on a few basic principles, and once those are secure, growth can commence, and this growth needs nothing more than continued musical and technical stimulus.

Yes I am sure. The trial and error method is inefficient for many reasons. One, it is time consuming. No one technical approach suits everyone the best, so discovering your own method will be very difficult, as you would have no support to lean on. Two, you would have a great chance of learning bad habits that will only impede your playing and development.

A teacher therefore is the best choice. Would you rather pay money and get a good technical foundation, or save up some money in order to not be able to play at all? I personally prefer the former...

[leonidas]

From reading, I am aware of the multitude of approaches, and can assign them to myself.

A teacher would intuitively choose the right one? Assuming they know me better than I know myself?

Speaking for myself, I haven't encountered much error, and am happy with my progress/effort ratio, but I don't know how lucky/talented I am so it's hard to compare.

[debussy symbolism]

From reading, I am aware of the multitude of approaches, and can assign them to myself.

A teacher would intuitively choose the right one? Assuming they know me better than I know myself?

Speaking for myself, I haven't encountered much error, and am happy with my progress/effort ratio, but I don't know how lucky/talented I am so it's hard to compare.

You can assign them, but you wouldn't know how to properly practice them. There is so much more than what is written on the page. I know this because my teacher offers me practicing methods that are nowhere to be seen on the page, yet relate to what is written. A teacher does know better than you. A person with no background technical knowledge can never know what will work for him.

If you are happy then there shouldn't be any problems. But you have to admit that with a teacher, you will make more progress.

[gyzzzmo]

The inefficiency in 'trial and error' lies in the fact that you have to relearn everything other people already discovered. Thats why we learn from books if we study

[anna_crusis]

Ideally, they are paying for (not necessarily in order):

a - piano knowledge and skill
b - teaching knowledge and experience
c - personal qualities (patience, empathy, care and enthusiasm)

Sadly most teachers only seem to qualify in (a) and barely any in (c).

[gyzzzmo]

In short, teachers are asking us money so they can keep living and thus being able to spend all of their time on getting better and exchanging their knowledge with you.