Extremely doubting teacher making me doubtful.

[elisianna]

  There is something that is really really bothering me right now.

  I recently switched piano teachers.  I've been playing piano for about four years and had the same teacher up until June, he moved across the country and I started going to University.

  I'm a music major in uni and my instrument is piano.  However, I'm not sure if I will ever be able to get anywhere.  My old teacher was extremely supportive, and he REALLY pushed me.

 However my prof. at the university is completely the opposite.  He has been extremely doubtful since he learned that I've actually only been playing my instrument for four years.  He mentions it every single lesson, and I am certain he is hinting at me dropping out of school.

  He's said this so many times now that I am starting to doubt that I should even be in school.  Yes, I did pass the audition to get in, but he's really making me think that I have absolutely no chance of succeeding in school.  (I am getting A's in all my classes though...). 

  So I guess first of all, is it impossible for me to do well at school?  (I do NOT plan in being a performance major).  And also, how do I deal with a prof. like this who obviously doesn't want me to be there, and who thinks that my being there is a giant mistake.

[chopinfan_22]

First of all...

You can do anything you want to do if you set your mind to it. If you want to succeed, you will, regardless of what others tell you, including that professor. If it were me, I'd just be up front with him. People are, by nature, nonconfrontational. Tell him that you're going to do what you love regardless of what he thinks, and that he is there to support you and help you get there, not demean, doubt, or impede. Either that... or find yourself a different instructor at the university. Go to one of them and tell them how you feel, or go to the head of the music department. That's what I'd do.

Hope this helps.

[m1469]

Well, first of all, you don't really know what is going through his mind.  For all you know he thinks that what he is doing is actually helping you to become a better pianist.  Whatever you do, DO NOT bother wasting your precious energy trying to change him or even figure him out -- it just doesn't matter.  In the end, all that matters is that you figure out who you are and that you believe in yourself.

What you need to figure out is whether or not it's going to matter to you and make a difference for you what other people think of you and of your playing, whomever they are.  This is difficult sometimes, but sometimes we have no choice about it.  If piano playing is something that is not going to go away no matter what, similar to something we have little control over, like our matured height (for the most part) for example, then you have to make a choice about how you are going to handle that.  You can either let things hold you back, or you can just accept that you are going to be involved in this particular endeavor for the rest of your life and work with yourself in this desire.

If you decide you need to just accept that piano means enough to you to continue on regardless of what people think and say, then you cannot let other's thoughts and opinions make you to doubt.  What would the point be ?  For some people, even their own self-doubt will not make the piano monster go away, so in essence, that energy and time spent in self-doubt is just a waste.  If you cannot live without it, don't waste your energy and don't waste your time in doubt -- it's just not going to make a difference in the end (you won't quit).  Also, don't waste your time with people who do not support your progress in some way.  What's the point ?

There will always be people who think they are offering you great advice by telling you their critical opinions on your playing or about your pianistic endeavors in general.  Maybe it is good advice, maybe it isn't, that's going to be up to you to decide.  In any case, there will always be somebody telling you to quit (it IS a bit of a crazy endeavor, afterall), even if it's just a nagging voice within yourself.  There will also always be people telling you to keep going.  There will be people who want to help you and will be helpful, and there will be people who do not want to help you and are not helpful.  There will also be people who want to help you but are not helpful, and there will be people who do not want to help you and are actually quite helpful.  In the end, it's not up to anybody besides you.

So, figure out who you are and figure out what you want.  Admit to yourself what you hope for and figure out what you need in order to get what you hope for.  Be impervious and have your own agenda; set your own goals.

[pianogeek_cz]

And this I might print out to read whenever gloom sets in.

[pianowolfi]

And this I might print out to read whenever gloom sets in.

Same here It's just brilliant

[elisianna]

Thanks so much you guys =)

[thalberg]

I say you need more opinions.  Find 10 musicians whom you respect, and who know a lot about music, and play for them and tell them your story and ask their opinions.    These need to be musicians with no conflict of interest, nothing to gain or lose.  They should  be as objective as possible.  Even contact strangers you've never met--teachers at another school or something.  As long as they have a position or reputation that lets you know theyr'e respectable.  Pick a few studio teachers, a few school teachers, a few uni teachers, and a few non-piano teachers....you'll get wonderful perspectives.

If they seem like kind people, take their advice to heart.  If they seem egotistical, move on to the next person.  They're not going to say "yes" or "no" and take your decision from you--but they will give you feedback that will help you come to a decision that YOU are comfortable with.  You won't feel so much like your'e guessing anymore.  Lots if input is the key.  Some of it will ring true in your heart, some will not.  But it's amazing what others will make you see.

You need the truth about your abilities.  Your own teachers do not have the answer for you--they have to work with you and so there's a conflict of interest. 

When you contact these other people, ask them what abilities are needed for the career you want, and you'll know if it sounds like something you can do in the future.

All this "believe in yourself" stuff sounds good, but you have to be practical as well.  Do research and schedule meetings.  You will feel better about your decision in the end.

And if you decide to proceed with the music career, get away from this teacher, he will only defeat you.  If it turns out he was right, on the other hand, he may have done you the biggest favor of your life by setting you on a new path where you will be more successful.

[faulty_damper]

  There is something that is really really bothering me right now.

  I recently switched piano teachers.  I've been playing piano for about four years and had the same teacher up until June, he moved across the country and I started going to University.

  I'm a music major in uni and my instrument is piano.  However, I'm not sure if I will ever be able to get anywhere.  My old teacher was extremely supportive, and he REALLY pushed me.

 However my prof. at the university is completely the opposite.  He has been extremely doubtful since he learned that I've actually only been playing my instrument for four years.  He mentions it every single lesson, and I am certain he is hinting at me dropping out of school.

  He's said this so many times now that I am starting to doubt that I should even be in school.  Yes, I did pass the audition to get in, but he's really making me think that I have absolutely no chance of succeeding in school.  (I am getting A's in all my classes though...). 

  So I guess first of all, is it impossible for me to do well at school?  (I do NOT plan in being a performance major).  And also, how do I deal with a prof. like this who obviously doesn't want me to be there, and who thinks that my being there is a giant mistake.

I passed my audition at my university with 3 years of piano study.  My teacher back then was stunned to learn of this as he had no idea until he asked me.  This teacher was/still is a very recognized figure in the world of music and piano but turned out to be really lousy teacher.  I changed teachers.

So this new teacher I changed to sounds very similar to your teacher.  He knew I had only 3 years of piano study and expressed similar attitudes being doubtful that I could achieve anything because he had beliefs that you have to have several years of study to achieve anything.  He assigned archaic exercises that I knew had no benefit technically (I had already tried Hanon and Czerny before and realized they didn't work) so I didn't do them; he assigned pieces which he liked that I did not and I hated them and didn't practice them; in fact, lessons became so stressful that the last time I saw him for a lesson I got sick.  I never saw him again for lessons and requested independent study in lieu of lessons as I still had a couple more units of study for my major.

But I doubt this is the path you want to take. The obvious course of action should be to talk to him first about his attitude and how it makes you feel.  Many things can be resolved this way.  I didn't do this with my teacher and lessons became extremely stressful.  I took two semesters before I finally quit lessons, changed to a bachelor of arts in music instead of a performance degree and have been happy ever since.  My piano playing and musicianship improved to the point where the piano faculty were stunned, except my teacher - he was dismayed at what I had achieved without him and I embarassed him in front of his colleagues following a makeup jury.  His embarassment was unintentional, maybe...  But he really was a lousy teacher for me.

So talk to your teacher first about his attitude.  If you really have trouble doing this, as I did, talk to your advisor about this so that perhaps your advisor could kindly talk to him about how his actions make you feel.  I did this, but I actually upset him quite a bit for not talking to him first about it, but he was a difficult person to talk to begin with.  Maybe your teacher is more willing to communicate.

[m1469]

I say you need more opinions.  Find 10 musicians whom you respect, and who know a lot about music, and play for them and tell them your story and ask their opinions.

While I think this can be useful, I think it can also be very misguiding and potentially dangerous.  If you do this, elisianna, please look *very* closely at the reasons you give these people this kind of respect and faith (our own (limited) concepts will easily deem somebody else to be a master).  Ultimately you are still resorting to believing in your own sense of what musicianship is and "should be" if you are deeming somebody else as a master with some kind of insight into your own abilities and potential.

You see the problem with that, right ?  The whole reason a person would rely on another person's opinion is because the person asking does not think they have enough perspective within themselves to know what the answer is.  However, the only reason to trust another person's opinion is IF they are percieved as a knowledgeable and masterful person in this area.  And, if they are percieved as such, then the qualities that make them so are recognizeable to the person asking, even before the question was asked. 

Ultimately, our perspective on a person who can be trusted in this area is limited to what we ourselves can already percieve and accept.  If we are asking because we fear our perspective is limited or skewed, then how can we trust anybody else to give us a more "accurate" response and perspective when their personal value is percieved through the same lense that we are feeling limited by and is causing us to ask in the first place ?

If we can't trust our own perspective with our musicianship, then we can't trust our own perspective on what others say to us regarding our musicianship because it's skewed by the same limitations.

[rogercacv]

 Hi : I think I understand where you are coming from. I also have been studying piano for 4 years. However Im obviously a little older than you being 59. If you want guarantees then take up something else besides piano. There are no certainties. The only thing for sure is you try to develope your skills and to play better. This you can do by developing more technque or by becoming more artistically mature or developing a greater ability to memorize. There are other things to but you get the idea. Why do you care what this bozo of a professor thinks. There is always another professor or teacher. The study of piano will take a lifetime. There will be many ups and downs. Just role with them and keep going.  Trust yourself more than anyone else. Ask yourself have you done  well in these last four years? You passed your entrance exams so someone must think you did.    "Keep the faith"

[mattgreenecomposer]

Well..
I passed my college audition with 6 months of being self taught.  Never had a teacher until I got to college, although I worked like a dog to get in.  My teacher never held it against me and I'm friends with him to this day.
Bottom line,
A. Take Thalbergs advice, play for 10 people and get a second opinion.
B. 99% of University Professors are there b/c they can't make it out in the real world.
C. Major in Business and get out while you still can...ok maybe not.
D. Be realistic with yourself and decide how you will make income when you get out.
Good luck.

[prongated]

B. 99% of University Professors are there b/c they can't make it out in the real world.

...I'd reserve that for musicologists, not the piano professors

[prongated]

However my prof. at the university is completely the opposite.  He has been extremely doubtful since he learned that I've actually only been playing my instrument for four years.  He mentions it every single lesson, and I am certain he is hinting at me dropping out of school.

...I know of someone who started piano lessons when he was about 9 years old [...so that's 5 years difference with you I think?]. Right now he's approaching mid-20s and has been in many international competitions. He won national competitions in his late teens too.

...thus in 10 years he was able to win a national competition. Shows what you can do in that kind of time space. Obviously this is a simplified model, but for the duration of your degree, you could become a competent pianist. Depends on whether (and I suppose, how) you practise ^^

[dan101]

Any teacher's first priority is to make you awae of your positive qualities. If you professor really doubts your ability as a pianist, he/she should be able to guide you to a different area of music. Afte all, the field is vast and exciting.

I would highly suggest switching teachers. Having been educated at three different universities, I can tell you that the process is common. Students often switch teachers when disssatisfied. You're ther customer... get a teacher that works for you.

[lazlo]

This is the norm at a conservatory towards anyone who isn't destined to be the next great pianist. This is not unusual at all. Piano teachers at these institutions can tend to be discouraging from what I've gathered/experienced.

[faulty_damper]

Any teacher's first priority is to make you awae of your positive qualities. If you professor really doubts your ability as a pianist, he/she should be able to guide you to a different area of music. Afte all, the field is vast and exciting.

When a teacher doubts a student's abilities, one should really understand that to mean that it is the teacher who doubts he is able to teach the student.

It is appalling at how many teachers at universities and conservatories think it is the students' duty to be skilled players instead of themselves being skilled teachers.   But teachers weren't really hired to teach someone how to become better.

[slobone]

I'm a little confused about what's going on. Presumably you're a music major, but not a performance major? Then why is he giving you such a hard time? Non-performance majors are expected to demonstrate a certain minimum level of competence on the piano, but that's it.

I think this guy has an attitude problem. Can you change teachers at the end of the semester?

You also didn't say much about whether the specific instruction on the piano you're getting is any good or not. If it is, then learn from it and do the best you can to ignore his more general comments.

If you really think you're being treated unfairly, talk to your adviser.

[danny elfboy]

  There is something that is really really bothering me right now.

  I recently switched piano teachers.  I've been playing piano for about four years and had the same teacher up until June, he moved across the country and I started going to University.

  I'm a music major in uni and my instrument is piano.  However, I'm not sure if I will ever be able to get anywhere.  My old teacher was extremely supportive, and he REALLY pushed me.

 However my prof. at the university is completely the opposite.  He has been extremely doubtful since he learned that I've actually only been playing my instrument for four years.  He mentions it every single lesson, and I am certain he is hinting at me dropping out of school.

  He's said this so many times now that I am starting to doubt that I should even be in school.  Yes, I did pass the audition to get in, but he's really making me think that I have absolutely no chance of succeeding in school.  (I am getting A's in all my classes though...). 

  So I guess first of all, is it impossible for me to do well at school?  (I do NOT plan in being a performance major).  And also, how do I deal with a prof. like this who obviously doesn't want me to be there, and who thinks that my being there is a giant mistake.

1) Don't miss one of the biggest pleasure in life: showing to people that their professional opinion was wrong, biased and useless

2) If you love piano you must do it nevertheless. Let's say that it doesn't work and for some reason you don't become a pianist. Nonetheless it has been a valuable experience. People will tell you that life is to short to focus on careers withou a future; I say that life is too short to focus on careers instead of passions!

3) Don't ask others what is possible/impossible for you. Now only you're the only one who knows but you also the only one who can exceed your own limits whenever you feel like you've reached what you thought your limits were.

4) Stephen King was advised by his teachers to never become a writer cause he had no talent. Robert DeNiro was advised by his acting teachers to never become an actor and choose another profession. Tchaikovsky first concerto was deemed "unmusical, awful and noisy" by his piano teacher who said he should "burn it" and that Tchaikosky lacked talent for composition. Giuseppe Verdi was rejected twice by the conservatory for his "lack of musical predisposition". John Hold was said that it was possible for an elder to learn how to play an instrument without any previous basis in music, at the age of 60 he learned how to play the cello and became so good that he was playing in concertos at the age of 70. Tom Farris has been a cashier since he was 30 years old and was deemed by friends and professional too old to become a theater actor. At age 53 he chose to pursue his dream and became a professional even if he lacked previous training and started from scratch at 53. Alessandra Celesti began studying dance at the age of 29 after she was told at the of 16 that was too old to become a dancer, not only she learned ballet and modern dance from scratch but won several competitions and became a professional On all "singer forums" whenever a person say "I'd like to become a broadway performer one day but just took up singing 1 week ago ... and I'm 21 years old" they say "too late! forget it!" and yet there have been many broadway professionals that started very late from scratch after a non-artistic career.

5) There is nothing that can stop you, other than your own mental limitations.
But while you can accept and discuss politely with "your own limitation" you should always absolutely and without compromise ignore other's people limitations. It's your life  not theirs!