Problems with dad

[pianochick93]

I have been recently teaching my younger sister to play keyboard. She has no problems with how I am teaching her, and I find it fairly easy, but my dad sees isues.

He isn't musical, but he will sit there and say, "Ella, you aren't explaining it properly to her, I don't understand what you are saying"
Of course he doesn't understand! He has never done music in his life.
He pushes me to watch ocer her practice sessions, and I as a student as well would hate for my teacher to be forever standing over me and correcting me when I practice.

It is just frustrating, and he can't accept that he doesn't know everything and I am the most musical in the family. He tries to tell me how to teach her, and he has no idea.
If I try to explain things, I fear that he will get mad, like he often does.

Any suggestions on how to deal with him?

[thierry13]

Go away you parasit, it's a musician thing, you can't understand, that's what he needs to get told  You have to make him understand he has nothing to do when you are teaching and he should just get off your back while you do so.

[allthumbs]

I would tell him that he should pay someone else to teach your sister (a good idea) and that should shut him up.

[gyzzzmo]

Tell him to shut up since he knows nothing about music. And that he's only allowed to criticise you if he takes lessons himself

[pianochick93]

See if I'll do that he'll get mad. My dad mad is not a good thing.

allthumbs, he isn't the one that pays for piano lessons, my mum is. And I don't get paid for teaching her either, it is "work experience"

[thalberg]

See if I'll do that he'll get mad. My dad mad is not a good thing.

My mom is the same way!  I'll tell you a good trick to use.  See, my mom always used to tell me how to drive--she'd sit in the passenger seat and say "Break!  Change lanes!  Watch out for that car! No, take the other route!"    If I told her to shut up--well I was too afraid to do that, but if I objected in any way she'd explode. 

So here's my trick:  I simply asked her questions.  "Should I break yet?  What lane should I drive in?  Are there any cars coming up ahead?  Which route should I take?"  It drove her absolutely CRAZY!! It was hilarious--and it stopped her from interfering. 

So I recommend the same approach with your dad.  Invite him to run the lessons.  Ask lots of questions in the same manner I illustrated above.  He will hate it!  And will perhaps back off.

"Am I explaining it right?  How would you put it to her?  I'm about to teach her dotted quarter notes, how should I go about it?"  You get the idea.

[hyrst]

It sounds like you have a very difficult father to deal with.  Sometimes, a strategy like Thalberg said will work - it's worth a try. 

But, you know your father.  You are the one who has had to deal with him all your life.  I am sure this is not the first time you have wondered whether to confront him or to submit.  You have to live in the house, I presume - and unfortunately this controlling attitude would be influencing more than just teaching your sister.

It is not always possible to outdo a controller.  Sometimes you only need to tell them how their behaviour affects you - "when you do this I feel..." etc.  Sometimes that is enough.  Sometimes, the fight is not worth it in the short term, and you just shut up and put up with it.  At other times, you have to overturn the system or break away - face the fight and possible break in relationship.  The situation determines the action, and your own personality does too.  This is apparently about more than teaching your sister - although part of the decision might be whether she is better to learn with him standing by like this or to not learn at this time. 

The reality is, this is about family relationships - music lessons are just the context in which this problem is showing itself.  It is a far more complex situation than if she was some otherwise unknown girl coming to you for lessons - in which case you have the authority to tell the father he is not to come to your studio if the girl is to have lessons with you. 

What have you tried in the past in other contexts?  Has anything worked, or has he always intimidated you?  Eventually, it becomes important to tactfully tell how you feel - but only once you are in a situation that is Ok for you if it doesn't work out.  Until then, you can try what Thalberg said, try to say what you are willing to do, or just give in.

It's not easy.  Been there...
Hope it all works out for you.
Annah

[hyrst]

Another thought - maybe he thinks he is teaching you how to teach rather than thinking about your sister learning the piano.  Maybe there is some other way of satisfying him that you are learning how to teach - maybe from your own teacher or a mentor or reading teaching resources?

[pianochick93]

I think what Thalberg suggested would work. I could really stump him with "Well how would you go about telling her that just because something has 4 sharps, it isn't difficult." or "Well how would you teach her which key signature is which"

Hyrst, you also have a point. He is very much all about 'processes of learning' and other stuff like that. He keeps telling me I'm teaching her wrong. He also tells me that because I am her teacher I should be making sure she practices. I couldn't do that if she didn't live with me, so I don't see why she should have me hovering over her, when, if I had another student, i wouldn't do that to him/her. Then he insists that I provide her with material to practice because she left her pieces at our mum's house.

[capella]

Any chance that you could explain that you are getting your lessons privately (through a teacher outside the home) and you would appreciate it if your sister could have the same benefit?  That it would be good for both her and you, as you learn to teach & she learns to play.  How does your sister feel about it?  Your mom?  Would mom run interference on your behalf?  My concern is that if you feel this strongly about it, your sister might also.  It would be a real shame if she quit wanting to learn because it was such a huge headache when lesson time came around.

Very nice post by Annah about family dynamics and personality types and good sharing by others of similar situations.  It isn't the same, since my husband and I are much older - but he wants to play & I quickly figured out I can't be the one to teach him.  I will only answer the specific questions he wants to know and he's an adult - no experience with music of any kind, beginner.  I have the luxuary of backing totally off, rather than try and convince him he must move his fingers off the middle C range at some point:)  

My best to you and you work through this situation at home.  Hey, can you take her some where else?  Know a friend, neighbor or family member with a piano or keyboard??

Debbie

[pianochick93]

The good thing is that I only see dad once every two weeks, so he doesn't interfere with any lessons that don't take place at his house. The lesson in question just started out as practice with me and him in the room and when she didn't understand something she asked me.

I don't believe that my sister will stop piano lessons though, she has wanted to for so long. One thig she might do would be refusing to practice when she is at dad's. This is potentially problematic because dad being dad, he will assume that I am not teacher her right because she wont practice.

The bastard

[leahcim]

The bastard

I think you should talk to him. Clearly your relationship is strained. If that's ok with you then eventually that 2 weeks will grow and grow until you don't bother going at all.

If it's not, then you should probably deal with the issues which I imagine have nothing to do with your sister's piano playing / teaching or practise.

[dan101]

Ask him, in a respectful way, to sit down with your sister and teach her for as couple of minutes. If he gets through to her, he obviously knows what he's saying. If he doesn't, then perhaps it will begin to dawn on him that teaching is not always as easy as it looks. Good luck!

[nyonyo]

In real life (when you teach in a music school), you will encounter this kind of problem. There are parents who like to stay in the class while you teach. When this thing happened, I made the parents play the piano also. Give the parents the same preassure, eventually, they will be afraid of going into the class room. Make them feel uncomfortable!!! They will leave soon.

Since you do not own the music school, you cannot just kick the student out. During my 15 years of teaching, I kicked out one student with the parents too. I did it closed to the end of my teaching career. Basically, I did not need money from teaching piano any longer. The owner was furious!!! I did not give a damm. It was so sweet...After suffering for many years being abused by the situation, finally my revange.....Teaching privately is the best. You can pick and choose the student that you want to teach. When you teach in a music school, you are obligated to teach whoever they assigned to you.

[leahcim]

There are parents who like to stay in the class while you teach. When this thing happened, I made the parents play the piano also. Give the parents the same preassure, eventually, they will be afraid of going into the class room. Make them feel uncomfortable!!! They will leave soon.

That's just ridiculous advice. Firstly, what's scary about playing the piano? What pressure? It doesn't sound like you'd be much use to a student you taught if they were scared and stressed.

Secondly, clearly parents have a role to play in their kids education - one that, irrespective of the particular issues in this case - which, I think fairly obviously had nothing to do with piano playing at all, is often positive.

As for whether you own the school or not, that's immaterial. It's patently obvious that if they are the child's parents, you aren't solving anything. The parents will still see the kids and that for the bigger part of their playing - when they practise.

So, if there's an issue in the way the parents approach their kid's music lessons acting like a buffoon during the lesson isn't going to solve anything. Much better to get the parents on side, doing the right thing instead...[admittedly more difficult than wearing a gorilla mask and shouting "boo!"]

[danny elfboy]

Have your sister telling your father that she not only is happy to have you as her teacher but that she understands you even when you father says that he doesn't.
In other words you're having a "quarrel" about a person which is just passively observing while her opinion is the most important thing. When you father say "you're not explaining her properly, I don't understand myself!" have your sister telling your father "but I'm indeed inderstanding dad and I lile the way she teaches" (of course as long as she does believe that, otherwise your father might have a point)

[johnk]

When dad says HE doesnt understand, ask your sister to explain it to him. With some pointed questions to help if necessary.

I always encourage parents to attend lessons, sometimes they take notes, sometimes I derect my comments to them instead of the child, to explain why I am teaching the child in a certain way.

And the kids get a kick out of showing their mum or dad how to do something. It also helps the parent see that its not so easy to do it when they are actually at the piano.

[gaest]

He pushes me to watch ocer her practice sessions, and I as a student as well would hate for my teacher to be forever standing over me and correcting me when I practice.

For the practice sessions, if he's pressuring you to watch over her, tell him that it's important for the learning process for your sister to work through practice on her own; that you're actually helping her learn by allowing her to work through some problems on her own (using the advice you've given her at the lessons).  That's the difference between "lessons" and "practice," after all.

Maybe he'll listen if you explain things in a reasonable manner. 

[m1469]

Hi, Pianochick.  This does sound like a toughie !  There are a lot of things involved within this, some of which have been hinted at by others here.  There is a lot that we could talk about with regard to family relations and family dynamics in this situation and that could be helpful, too, but since I already feel like I have a lot to say I will aim to touch on "just" the teaching aspect of what you are doing.

What you are taking on in deciding to teach your sister piano is actually a very mature decision.  It takes a lot of organization and constant growing on your part to really do it right !  It also takes a sincere commitment to music and to your students to want to put in the effort that is required in finding different ways of explaining concepts to each individual (and to deal with their parents at the same time !).  I can only imagine what parenting must be like (okay, I actually have some pretty good ideas ) ! 

May I ask you, do you wish to make this a profession ?  And, if not a profession, are you wanting to be teaching for awhile ?  In any case, what are you hoping to gain from the experience of teaching in general (not just from teaching your sister) ?

Whatever you are hoping to learn from the experience of teaching will greatly impact what kind of teacher you are for your students.  There are definitely certain things that I feel I am claiming about myself as an individual by taking on the profession of teaching (and not just of teaching in general (though that, too) but of teaching music/piano, specifically).  Some of that also has to do with being a woman, specifically, too.

One of the most important and helpful things I have found in teaching is to make studio policies.  Even if nobody else ever saw them (though they do see them), I find that just the act of clarifying to myself how I want this experience to go is a very empowering experience in and of itself !  It's fun, too .  Perhaps you would enjoy making some policies of your own for your studio . 

What I find fun about it is that I get to map out what my ideals are (at the time) for my business, and I do just that; I give myself permission to go with my true ideals.  I have always found the courage, after clarifying these things to myself, to show these to each family that walks through my door.  I used to be always surprised when people agreed to them because they are essentially agreeing to my ideals (imagine that !) ! 

When somebody who was already enrolled within my studio would question them, yes, I would take some time to (privately) review my thoughts on these matters, but I would always end up falling back on what the policies state and would then be able to just feed these people the rules and guidelines involved with being a part of my studio.  The policies were the authority and all I had to do was follow them.

I think in many cases, or perhaps all, the greatest defense is a strong offense and, everybody is capable of that !  Everything you do now will only strengthen and clarify who you are.  Even if you don't make teaching a profession, your effort in discovering how to craftily cope with these circumstances will not go to waste.  The key is in knowing that there are already answers for you, and there are.

Well, there is a lot more to this but I think I have said enough for now.  As a lengendary forum member used to write, this is just the tip of the iceberg .

Best,
m1469

[slobone]

If he's only there once every two weeks, I assume this is a separation/divorce situation? Not to pry into your personal business, but that would certainly explain his behavior.

A lot of fathers in this position feel like they have to give their kids "quality time" while they're with them. He wants you to benefit from the experience and wisdom he's accumulated in life. If teaching/practicing is what's going on while he's there, that's what he wants to be part of.

I suggest you just put up with it, if it's only once every two weeks. When he's not there, you can just quietly go back to whatever works the best for the two of you.

Whatever you do, don't be disrespectful or argue with him -- that will only make things worse. If you pretend to be interested in what he's saying (pretend convincingly!), then he will feel validated and maybe after a while he'll leave you alone.

This is a lesson that can help you in later life -- the male ego is always hungry, but can survive for quite a while on a diet of BS... 

[keyofc]

I think JohnK has a great idea!
And also whoever it was that suggested having the sister explain.

Three things happen here if you do that:
1.   You will find out if she really got it.
2.   If she got it, she will be reinforcing what she learned
3.   Your dad may be satisfied.
(Really - I know I'm not there, but it does sound like he might be trying to help you instead of messing you up.  Whether or not he knows anything about music, I'm assuming he has a brain.  Even if he doesn't know what a scale really is - if you tell her WWHWWWH
he should be able to associate the two - even if the words are secrets to him.

I have not been humble for most of my life - and I'm paying for it now -Save yourself a decade or two.