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Topic: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2  (Read 4244 times)

Offline Pianist

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Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
on: April 10, 2004, 09:19:17 AM
How difficult is this concerto?  How does it compare to other concerti in difficulty?  I look forward to your input.  Thanks.

Offline dj

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #1 on: April 16, 2004, 07:04:09 AM
well think about how complex rachmaninoff's music is in general, and then think about how difficult concerti are in general...now put them 2gether....yeah lol
rach on!

Offline ayahav

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #2 on: April 16, 2004, 09:36:01 AM
It isn't quite as difficult as the 3rd one, but it is extremely difficult...

Offline scriabinsmyman

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #3 on: April 16, 2004, 11:08:13 PM
one of his harder concertos, but not nearly as hard as no. 3, hand span is doable, have fun!

Offline MikeLauwrie

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #4 on: April 17, 2004, 01:59:45 AM
Dunno

Offline MikeLauwrie

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #5 on: April 17, 2004, 02:00:49 AM
Although as an afterthought, I agree that is is bound to be pretty difficult but nowhere near as difficult as the third.

Offline dj

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #6 on: April 17, 2004, 05:39:41 AM
lol...ok, i suppose we've established that it's not as difficult as the third  ::)
rach on!

Offline MzrtMusic

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #7 on: April 17, 2004, 06:09:34 AM
Quote
Posted by: scriabinsmyman Posted on: Today at 4:08pm
one of his harder concertos, but not nearly as hard as no. 3, hand span is doable, have fun!  


Yes, it is doable... But you have to have pretty large hands to get some of those opening chords. In my opinion, the whole mood of the concerto is ruined if those chords are rolled. I can get 10 keys easily, 11 with a bit of a stretch. And my hands aren't big enough to play this concerto. I love this concerto, it is my favorite of Rachmaninoff. I would rather hear just a few people play it really well than everyone who has attained some level of virtuosity... Just my opinion...

Love,

Sarah
My heart is full of many things...there are moments when I feel that speech is nothing after all.
-- Ludwig Van Beethoven

Offline ayahav

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #8 on: April 17, 2004, 11:29:36 AM
I understand you Sarah... I can get all the chords, except the second one (with the Db)... and I think arpeggiating these chords ruins the atmosphere...

Xelles

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #9 on: April 17, 2004, 07:06:41 PM
Quote
the whole mood of the concerto is ruined if those chords are rolled.

You, Sarah, definitely know music. If the first chord of this piece is rolled, I won't listen to the rest (unless ofcourse it's an Argerich or Mei-Ting recording. Both of which I have yet to hear, and doubt will ever hear!  >:().That's not the true "Rach" interpretation.

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #10 on: April 17, 2004, 08:42:08 PM
Quote
How difficult is this concerto?  How does it compare to other concerti in difficulty?  I look forward to your input.  Thanks.


 I'm going to be in the extreme minority here, but I find the Rach 2nd harder to play (extremely awkward in so many places) than the 3rd.  The 3rd, of course, was much harder to learn.

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline IgnazPaderewski

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #11 on: April 18, 2004, 06:56:30 AM
you're insane....

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #12 on: April 18, 2004, 07:09:19 PM
::)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline Motrax

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #13 on: April 20, 2004, 12:53:09 AM
So as not to start a new topic about the same piece...

What do you think is the best recording of Rach 2? I've been searching around quite a while, but my favorite is still the first one I have played by Ashkenazy.
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

Xelles

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #14 on: April 20, 2004, 12:54:18 AM
That's as good as it gets.

Offline ayahav

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #15 on: April 20, 2004, 12:59:48 AM
I have to agree...it's breathtaking. I have it on CD with him playing Rach 3 as well... ;D

Offline MikeLauwrie

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #16 on: April 20, 2004, 02:04:21 AM
Yes Ashkenazy is the best on Rach 3 that I've heard yet.

Although Howard Shelley's 2nd is pretty good. Don't get his 3rd - I did and was dissapointed. He doesn't play the ossia cadenza for a start.
???

Offline dj

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #17 on: April 20, 2004, 06:01:48 AM
hmmm....is ashkenazy's really that good? i've always been somewhat less than impressed with his other recordings so i never really looked for his rach concertos......his prokofiev concertos were pretty decent though, and i suppose rach would fall into relatively the same genre.....so i guess i'll check it out

incidentally, i like rubinstein's recording of the rach 2 better than any other recordings i've heard
rach on!

Offline eViLben

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #18 on: April 20, 2004, 02:08:07 PM
try Andrei Gavrilov's (with Mutti) version, it's perfect ....
" Je ne suis vraiment moi-même que dans la musique. La musique suffit à une vie entière. Mais une vie entière ne suffit pas à la musique."
S.R.

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #19 on: April 20, 2004, 04:10:14 PM
Quote
So as not to start a new topic about the same piece...

What do you think is the best recording of Rach 2? I've been searching around quite a while, but my favorite is still the first one I have played by Ashkenazy.


 For me, it's Kapell and there's...everyone else.  Gavrilov's is excellent, and of course, I adore the Rachmaninoff recording.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline ravel

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #20 on: April 21, 2004, 05:09:48 AM
i am surprised no one mentioned richter. i dont think any recording of rach 2 comes close to that.
i think i like his recording the most.
then maybe, rubinstein, ashkenazy.
cziffra's recording is funny, some parts are very well done, others seem messed up. specially he opening of the 3rd movement , it seems he was trying to play that run in not even a second, hehe, kind of not possible.
ofcourse i havent heard kapell or katchen,  i hve heard they are good though.
And it seems that ashkenazy was  also having that problem in the openign chords, hehe guess his hands werent big enuf, cuz he definitely plays them or as far as i remember atleast 2 or 3 of them as broken chords.

Offline Motrax

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #21 on: April 21, 2004, 05:24:02 AM
Ashkenazy plays all but the first (I think) chord rolled. I actually like the sound of that, but that's just me...

Have any of you heard Orezco's performance? I admit I had never heard of him before recently, but I heard a recording and was quite taken with his interperetation of the second concerto.
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

Offline MikeLauwrie

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #22 on: April 21, 2004, 11:30:58 AM
Yes I also prefer hearing the chords spread.

But I can appreciate that there are those who prefer them played straight - it would be a boring world if we were all the same!
;)

Offline MikeLauwrie

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #23 on: April 21, 2004, 11:36:31 AM
I've just had a listen to Ashkenazy, and just out of interest, on my recording he plays all the opening chords rolled - even the first one.

Have a listen to Howard Shelley's recording if you get a chance, it's well worth a listen.

Offline Nita

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #24 on: May 25, 2004, 09:51:57 AM
I talked with my teacher about this concerto.... He`s a very femouse pianist and has played Rach 2 and 3 over 200 times with Orchestras...He told that for him Rach 2 is more difficult...and we`re not talking about technical problems but a general difficulties. He said to me that it`s easier to play rach 3 because if you play everything, it`s enough to  impress people...as for Rach 2,nobody cares about technical problems and as the music  itself is very personal,it`s very difficult to find a line between emotions and Bad taste...
I played it a lots of times but then decided to play Prokofiev concertos...for they`re less personal and better choise for competitions...Even though Rach 2 is my fevorite.
Good luck:)

JK

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #25 on: May 25, 2004, 10:23:38 AM
I think that the best recording of Rach2 is definately Richter, the sheer technical perfection and power is just stunning! As for whether or not the chords are split, I have tiny hands and can't therefore reach the opening chords but this hasn't stopped me perorming this piece. I think it narrow-minded that somone would stop listening to a performance straight away just because the opening chords are rolled ???, do you know that in Rachmaninovs' recording of this piece he rolls every single opening chord! ;)  

Offline Saturn

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #26 on: May 25, 2004, 10:26:11 AM
Quote
Yes, it is doable... But you have to have pretty large hands to get some of those opening chords. In my opinion, the whole mood of the concerto is ruined if those chords are rolled. I can get 10 keys easily, 11 with a bit of a stretch.


You've got bigger hands than I do, then.  I can't play a tenth cleanly.

What you could always do is, rather than roll the chord, hit the bass note, and then play the rest of the chord together.  That's what Rachmaninoff did.  Which is rather puzzling since he had gigantic hands.  But I guess it's what he preferred, or found easiest.

As far as the difficulty, I'd say if you have to ask, you're better off learning other concertos first.  I'd say rach 2 is pretty high up on the food chain.

Offline Motrax

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #27 on: May 25, 2004, 03:56:59 PM
Rach 2 is definitely a very difficult piece. Comparing it with Rach 3 is a little silly, because comparing practically anything (Alkan, blah blah blah, I know  :)) with that concerto will make what you're comparing look easy. There are a lot of huge chords in the second concerto. I can reach a 10th in my left hand, and stretch a 10th in my right, which makes things awful when you have 11th-interval chords. However, I think with leaving out single notes or rolling the chords well, a comparable musical effect is attained.

As for the recording...
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000004167/qid=1082408439/sr=1-13/ref=sr_1_13/002-8115597-7104041?v=glance&s=classical
is the best recording I've ever heard from a pianistic standpoint. The orchestra is relatively lousy, and the sound quality could definitely be much better. You can read my review of it on the website (I'm Jeremy from Maryland), I explain my opinion there.
"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." --  Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #28 on: May 25, 2004, 05:53:30 PM
Quote
Rach 2 is definitely a very difficult piece. Comparing it with Rach 3 is a little silly, because comparing practically anything (Alkan, blah blah blah, I know  :)) with that concerto will make what you're comparing look easy. There are a lot of huge chords in the second concerto. I can reach a 10th in my left hand, and stretch a 10th in my right, which makes things awful when you have 11th-interval chords. However, I think with leaving out single notes or rolling the chords well, a comparable musical effect is attained.

As for the recording...
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000004167/qid=1082408439/sr=1-13/ref=sr_1_13/002-8115597-7104041?v=glance&s=classical
is the best recording I've ever heard from a pianistic standpoint. The orchestra is relatively lousy, and the sound quality could definitely be much better. You can read my review of it on the website (I'm Jeremy from Maryland), I explain my opinion there.


 Good performance, but still pales in comparison to Kapell's.

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline Dave_2004_G

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #29 on: May 25, 2004, 11:38:51 PM
For people who have played this piece - what did you find to be the biggest trouble areas?

Dave

JK

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #30 on: May 25, 2004, 11:57:27 PM
The hardest part by far for me was the first subject in the last movement, there are simply so many notes, although it's so pianistcally written that after a lot of slow practice it soon becomes managable. As for the rest of it I persoanlly felt that it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, ok it took a hell of a lot of practice but again it's so well written that once you've got it, it sticks! I also think it's one of the most exciting and exhilarating pieces I have ever played, especially the ending! :)

Offline Dave_2004_G

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #31 on: May 26, 2004, 12:41:34 AM
Yes - I'd love to play it - having to choose a concerto for next year - I had refected the idea of a Rach concerto, but I'm (sort of) reconsidering!  I'm going over the score atm, but having to d/l it off the internet - about 10 files or something and you can only get 2 a day - and then it takes up a hell of a lot of ink when you print it off!

Dave

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #32 on: May 26, 2004, 08:35:42 PM
Quote
The hardest part by far for me was the first subject in the last movement, there are simply so many notes, although it's so pianistcally written that after a lot of slow practice it soon becomes managable. As for the rest of it I persoanlly felt that it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, ok it took a hell of a lot of practice but again it's so well written that once you've got it, it sticks! I also think it's one of the most exciting and exhilarating pieces I have ever played, especially the ending! :)


 I agree completely.  That theme in the 3rd movement is dreadfully difficult.  I've only heard a handful of recordings that really play it well.  And Kapell's tops that short list.

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline thierry13

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #33 on: May 28, 2004, 04:47:08 AM
Hi everyone, i'm new hear :).

For dave: If you were at sheet music archive,you only have to configure internet explorer to block all cookies and you can download all you want.But watch out to your conection,beacause if you download to much, the server of sheet music archive may have a bug...so it's recommended not to download to much. And if it was not where you were... www.sheetmusicarchive.net ....an excellent site with an enermous repertoire ;D

Offline edouard

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #34 on: May 28, 2004, 10:37:34 PM
well, i was zapping around yesterday on TV trying to destress before my conservatory final exam, and what do i land on? A fourteen year old playing through Rach2 third movement. It was pretty much note perfect, he was very serious and all, but there was not much feeling, it was very mechanical, but hey he has time to sort that out :) anyhow, nice concert piece!
rach on :P

edouard

Spatula

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Re: Rachmaninoff Concerto #2
Reply #35 on: June 01, 2004, 05:38:42 AM
crazy, and I was impressed with Kissin's Chopin Concerto  :o
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