Hardest piece I've ever played

[tengstrand]

Hello all,

I have just finished recording the hardest piece I've ever played, Esa-Pekka Salonen's Dichotomie. He asked me to play it, and I was very proud, but when I got the score I got quite worried, it was just on the verge of impossible to learn...I would like to know if you think the hard work was worth it, in your opinion: I uploaded an mp3 of it on mediafire, clicking on the link should work (I hope, first time I use it). What do you think of the piece?

https://www.mediafire.com/?ecfymrjynty

Best,
Per

[retrouvailles]

Wow, very interesting! I have heard Yefim Bronfman play this piece, and I was blown away by it. I'll listen to this and hopefully give some comments.

Do you also have Organisme?

[tengstrand]

Please do listen, I'm also curious if the download works...I have the Bronfman recording, but didn't listen to it until just before recording...I was struck by his slow tempi, which are way below the metronome indications. But there is great clarity, although the crazy fire gets lost I think.
Yes, I have Organisme, too, it's quite different and easier but soo beautiful though. The ending puzzled me until I asked EP, and he told me he wanted a Prokofiev 7 kind of ending. Not deeper than that...

[retrouvailles]

This is very good! It's much clearer than Bronfman's playing, and I feel like I can follow the piece easier. You also bring out the climaxes a lot more, so I can feel the piece on a closer level emotionally, despite the mechanical qualities of the piece. It almost sounds like I'm listening to Foreign Bodies when I listen to your interpretation because of your fullness. Overall, a very well-played rendition. I'm really looking forward to your Organisme!

I urge anyone who is not familiar with this piece to listen to it!

[term]

cool 

I would like to know if you think the hard work was worth it

Yes. Not only the piece, but your playing is very impressive. I can only imagine the difficulties you faced with it oO
The piece sounds wicked, frightening, evil, interesting...definately worth learning and listening to. Thanks for sharing it!

PS: Would love to have a look at the score ... where can i get it?

[tengstrand]

I found this link for the score:
https://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/0019086/details.html?kbid=1296
Good luck!
Per

[soderlund]

Impressive as always, I think.  How long did it take you to learn?

I had never heard it before, but I liked it very much. It is as term said, very interesting, and does sound a bit wicked, in a good way.

[retrouvailles]

Can you please post Organisme? I would really like to hear the other half of Dichotomie, and I think I can expect great things in your interpretation of it.

Oh, and if you see Mr. Salonen again, tell him to please write more piano music! I have enjoyed both this piece and the piano concerto.

[tengstrand]

I have to check with the publisher since it's a commercial recording, they make the calls for how much I can put out there...I'll get back to you on that. If not, it will be on iTunes for 0.99 I assume.

I started WAY to late before the concert, and just went into isolation in the countryside and practiced 10-11 hours a day for two weeks...but with pieces like this, Hammarklavier etc. that's what I have to do, just be obsessed for a shorter time rather than practice "normally" for a longer time.

Per

[retrouvailles]

Oh, it's a commercial reecording? I had no idea. Can you give me a link to the CD? I prefer to not use iTunes, but I like having the actual CD.

[tengstrand]

It's only out in France since three days ago, will be sold here pretty soon. I can message you as soon as it's out for sale here, if you like? I know someone from Japan ordered it from the French distributor, so I could just ask him if you can do the same (I'll ask him to know some off the price for shipping).
I'll get back to you asap!
Thanks,
Per

[retrouvailles]

I am very interested in this, so yes, I would appreciate a notice.

What else is on the CD?

[thierry13]

That is really an amazing piece, and you play it in an amazing way too, Per! Congratulations on this.Will it be available in North america in the future ? Can't believe you can stay concentrated 11 hours a day ... don't know if I would handle it lol!

[retrouvailles]

I found the CD on a French website:

https://www.cdmail.fr/gb/affich_fich.asp?refcdm=CDM794966

I'll buy this when I can.

[tengstrand]

Thanks for liking it, I share your thoughts on the piece, I just love playing it. I always think a little of Petroushka in the beginning. The french distribtor gave me this link:
https://www.integralmusic.fr/detail.aspx?num=22913

Retrouvailles, where did you hear the piano concerto? I can imagine it would be a great piece. I will for sure tell EPS to write more for piano and give him your impressions.

Per

[retrouvailles]

I saw a video of Yefim Bronfman playing it at the Proms. It was premiered this year. I think you can find it on YouTube.

[soliloquy]

Has never been one of my favorite pieces to be honest; I would personally say the amount of effort here might have been better-spent on the similar "Shiraz" by Vivier, or if slightly more effort was to be put forth perhaps even Mists or Evryali.


But onto the playing.  I don't really ever comment on people's playing, and on the rare occasion that I do I usually have a lot more bad to say than good.  But your playing here is, in this piece, simply entirely without fault.  It's devoid of any of the unnecessary and almost-always detracting superfluous gestures so many pianists try to pour into toccati.  The touch is light but powerful in the sort of springy way that makes the piece really "pop"; in the chromatic double-note passages near the beginning (for instance) it is almost, as the piece's title would direct, mechanical and perfect, utterly pristine, and whether it was on purpose or not it really created a quite awesome effect!  The chords, despite their natural inclination in this piece, never got cluttered, and everything was perfectly articulated.  A+  I'd love to hear your interpretation of any of the pieces I listed above, by the way, because I think they would be very suited to you.

[tengstrand]

Thanks a lot for those words. The level of energy in the chords and staccato passages is one of the things that is the most challenging here. It's easy to get into "nailing" everything but then, in my opinion, one looses the lightness and with that the momentum. I assume you know the second piece "Organisme"? You might like that better. I am a little embarassed that I don't know of the composers you mention, but I will look them up.
Per

[soliloquy]

Thanks a lot for those words. The level of energy in the chords and staccato passages is one of the things that is the most challenging here. It's easy to get into "nailing" everything but then, in my opinion, one looses the lightness and with that the momentum. I assume you know the second piece "Organisme"? You might like that better. I am a little embarassed that I don't know of the composers you mention, but I will look them up.
Per

No Problem.  By the way, before you go looking up those composers I should warn you that you might have trouble pulling up the piano repertoire written by the artists "Mists" and "Evryali"   They're actually piano pieces by Iannis Xenakis; I should have been more clear.  Also, Vivier's full name is Claude Vivier, although that shouldn't be too tough to find out.  (and I like Mecanisme more XP)

[tengstrand]

No wonder I never heard of these two composers with funny names...I'm a little curious, if you want to explain (sometimes it's a drag and useless to do) what in Dichotomie you don't like too much?
All best,
Per

[stringoverstrung]

Per: Thank you for your performance: musicians like you make a difference to the/my world.

Do you have a website with your concert schedule?

[minor9th]

It's only out in France since three days ago, will be sold here pretty soon. I can message you as soon as it's out for sale here, if you like? I know someone from Japan ordered it from the French distributor, so I could just ask him if you can do the same (I'll ask him to know some off the price for shipping).
I'll get back to you asap!
Thanks,
Per

I'd like notification, too! Thank you.

[tengstrand]

Hello everyone, sorry for popping in: just wanted to say this since someone asked for it...the CD with Dichotomie will be available on CDBaby, iTunes etc in ten days or so. And I do have now a myspace page where I listed my performances.

Happy Holidays to everyone (although I admit I belong to the people hating Christmas songs at the supermarket already...)
Per
www.myspace.com/pertengstrand

[retrouvailles]

Thanks for the update! And expect an order from me soon!

[tengstrand]

Thanks Retro, I'm happy to hear that! There are also some great pieces from a Swedish composer Wilhelm Stenhammar, they are very beautiful.

[retrouvailles]

Yes, I am familiar with those pieces and I like them very much. I can't wait to hear your rendition of those beautiful pieces, in addition to the Griegs, which we all know and love I am sure.

[gerry]

Nothing short of impressive as all comments above have confirmed. I'm curious, since you admit to its being the most difficult piece you've tackled and that you isolated yourself, etc. to practice, would you please share your method of learning a piece like this. Did you analyze it first, divide it up and work on sections? In other words, how did you make those 11-hour days most productive? What's the first thing you did? I can appreciate it if you don't have time to answer in detail, but I would really like to know how a "pro" goes about organizing practice time. Thanks for sharing this recording.
Gerry

[tengstrand]

I'll be glad to...there were two main problems in this piece: the first one was that EP is no pianist, so the writing is extremely uncomfortable. The second is the sheer speed: it's supposed to feel like a machine, so the "not human-controlled" aspect is important, I think. But it poses a problem since the score is way to complicated to not have your mind racing, trying to be in charge.

The first decision to make is if you want to play this by heart. And that is quasi impossible, I have done that at home, but I still use the score in concert. However, and this is really important: even if you will use the score, THE FIRST THING to do is to memorize the piece. Take line by line, phrase by phrase, and before you learn it AT ALL technically you put the material in your brain. This will help you enormously later on. Take for example one page for one day, and at the end of the day your goal is to be able to play that page through, very slowly, but without score. When you play the piece in tempo later, you are not really reading the score, the score is just "filling in" what you already know. To me, it made the difference of being able to play it very fast or not. (EP's metronome markings are VERY fast).

The unpianistical writing has a few different sides to it. One is that in something like the finale of Hammarklavier, or the cadenza of the first mov. of Proko 2, the hands and arms are in motion all the time. Take the beginning of Mecanisme, first there are repeted chords when you just cannot move your arms, and all of a sudden you have to move extremely quickly in chords up and down, back to repeated chords etc etc. We don't think so often how awkward "non-motion" things are at the piano, and I really don't think EP thought of it either, haha. So you have to work out some way to be pretty conscious about if you want to play fast repeated chords with wrists, forearm or actually mostly with fingers.

Another thing is the middle section, which EP called A Bach invention gone mad. There are slurs, staccatos and other articulations all the time. Plus, the meter is completely different in left and right hand, with "downbeats" coming at very different places in left and right all the time. Here EP actually complained that he didn't expect this place to sound too dry, like he had heard it many times. The trick there is to have an extremely fast "switch" in your hand: when it's staccato, the hand is superalert and more quick, and when you start the slurred notes, the hand has to be switched to a much more relaxed state, and this goes on and on in a superquick tempo, mostly in piano, with very short slurs, and they come at completely different spots in left and right...

There was no way I could do this without "programming" my hands, and I think the name of the piece permits that. I worked in small parts, starting with memorizing (including, of course, memorizing the articulation, too) and then going VERY slow, with metronome, and speed it up a little more and more. I noticed that this piece was the first that even if I could play it in tempo, I had no real comtrol, and that's how it should be...and that is why it's so imperative to memorize it in the beginning. You feel like you're on a rollercoaster, actually: it looks really impossible, but even though you scream, you know that nothing will happen, because it's built to not break...well, the "built not to break" is the memorizing at the beginning.

Hope this is at least a little clear!

All best to you,
Per
www.myspace.com/pertengstrand

[m1469]

Dear Per,

Thank you for taking the time to give us insight into your process of learning !  Two different meters between hands ... sounds fun .  What an interesting journey it must have been for you.

May I ask you a couple of questions ?

Do you feel that learning and performing this piece has changed your perspective on music in general, in any particular ways ?  If so, do you care to elaborate ?

Also, has learning this piece changed your perspective on your own pianistic path at all ?

And, lastly, I would like to know if you think the hard work was worth it ?

Please feel free to answer as you wish (I hope I don't offend you by asking  ), I am just interested .


Thanks,
m1469

[gerry]

I really appreciate your taking the time to detail your approach to this piece. Your method of "memorizing" while learning but still using the music as reference in performance made a great deal of sense. You also reminded me of how important staying in reasonable physical shape is to a successful interpretation in this genre. Thanks again - it's a real delight to have the voice of someone as accomplished as you on this forum. The very best to you on your continued career.

Gerry

[mattgreenecomposer]

Wow that sounded impressive!  I can't say I really cared for the composition, but your technical skills are amazing buddy.   
M

[tengstrand]

Hello all, and Happy New Year!

OK, the CD is here:
https://cdbaby.com/cd/pertengstrand

m1469, I'm sorry I'm answering your questions so late, but better late than never, I hope

I would say that the piece has changed my perception, but not mostly because of the difficult, but because of working with the composer on it. EP was a lot more "laissez-faire" than I would imagine a composer to be, and ESPECIALLY he liked when the performer puts his own imagination into the piece, creating things that the composer never heard before. I found that really fascinating, as the composer was seeing the piece as a new composition every time it was played. I learned a lot from that, and have applied it to other music. I remember also EP saying things like "ah, let's make a huge rit. here, that feels better" for example, and thought of the many discussions I had about ritardando when not written in the score. Not at all a way to say we can do whatever we want, but it makes our responsibility to the dead composers even larger.

To your second question, I have changed my mind on something I thought before: that pianist/composers were the only ones writing real good imaginative on the pianistic part of a piece. I now realize it's more if the composer has the "imaginative ears" than if he actually play it. I'm so impressed with EP's way of making the piano sound in this piece! The only catch is he never felt restrained to write in a way that was comfortable...

Did I think it was worth it? You bet! And when you play it live, the audience goes nuts!

All best wishes,
Per
www.myspace.com/pertengstrand

[general disarray]

Just terrific!  The piece AND your playing.  Masterful and exciting.

How on earth did you keep from shredding your hand to bits with those glissandi?  Seriously, I'd be bleeding all over the keyboard.  Any techno/medico tips, Per? 

[tengstrand]

Ahhh, good question! When I first played it for EP, I showed him how much those glissandi had made my fingers bleed. He told me that he had asked the editor to put in the score that those could be played with a glove on the hand, and that he had put long silences in there to take it on and off. Amazing!

[m1469]

m1469, I'm sorry I'm answering your questions so late, but better late than never, I hope

Oh, well, yeah... actually your answers are quite unacceptable at this point  .

However, despite the fact that I can no longer accept your answers to my questions, I do find them quite interesting and unexpected  . You say that he "never felt restrained to write in a way that was comfortable..."  what an interesting way of putting it !   I will admit, I have become curious...

Thanks for your response,
m1469

[tengstrand]

Aouch...of course I meant UNcomfortable! Or maybe I should put it like this: he didn't care at all about how anything "fit the hand".

Sorry. Was there anything else unexpected? 
Per

[m1469]

Aouch...

Oh, whooopsies.  I didn't mean to be ouchy; I guess I should have communicated better  .

of course I meant UNcomfortable! Or maybe I should put it like this: he didn't care at all about how anything "fit the hand".

Yes, actually I did understand what you meant (as it seems).  I just genuinely felt it was an interesting way of putting it because I was thinking about it from the perspective of being a composer (yes, I will call myself that for now).  When I have actually sat down and composed piano pieces, I have actually been considering what it means to the playing apparatus as I am writing ... and, well, then I have related that to something that someone has recently talked with me about regarding composers and what they have time to think about.  This person told me that composers don't have time to be thinking about how the music is going to fit in the hand ... yet, I did think about it when I was composing.  So, at that point, I started wondering what that might mean (... for example, thoughts like : am I a real composer ? or wondering what a composer mindset is, actually).  Is it better to think about how music fits the hand or should I just be thinking about the music ... things like that. 

In any event, sometimes I have felt that I cannot quite get my music out of me ... and here you say that this composer "never felt restrained" .. you see ?  I am just pondering a bit.

Sorry.

No, I am sorry .

Was there anything else unexpected? 
Per

Well, yes, actually.  I found it interesting that you talked about working with the composer and actually I found it interesting what your observations were in doing so.  I have never had the opportunity with either piano or voice to actually work with a living composer on their work with me as the performer... it sounds like it was fun for you and I appreciate the perspective.  I will probably read what you have posted again several times from different perspectives just to try to grasp what it is like to be you  .

Thanks,
m1469

[musicgirl-2004]

The hardest piece i ever played is schubrt wunderer fantasie

[minor9th]

Any updates on when Itunes will have the CD for download?

[tengstrand]

Thanks for asking Minor9th: I just checked iTunes and it was there, you can find it by searching my name.

m1469, I promise to get back to you, it's an interesting discussion!

All best,
Per

[minor9th]

Great--thank you! I checked a few days ago and it wasn't there. Those Salonen performances are incredible--nice recording quality, too.