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Liszt best compositions (Read 24945 times)

Offline frigo

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Liszt best compositions
« on: November 09, 2007, 12:39:19 PM »
The highest: hungarian rapsody no.2, piano sonata...

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #1 on: November 09, 2007, 02:19:29 PM »
piano sonata & Faust symphony
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline liszt-essence

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #2 on: November 09, 2007, 03:11:36 PM »
As if this is an objective poll, you people will just put down which liszt composition you like best..

No matter what 'valid' arguements you come up with, it's a matter of taste in the end..


Offline chopinfan_22

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #3 on: November 09, 2007, 03:14:49 PM »
Very true.... but regardless...

Un Sospiro... Liebesraume... La Campanella... Harmonies du Soir... Paysage...
"When I look around me, I must sigh, for what I see is contrary to my religion and I must despize the world which does not know that music is a higher revelation beyond all wisdom and philosophy."

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #4 on: November 09, 2007, 03:18:01 PM »
As if this is an objective poll, you people will just put down which liszt composition you like best..

No matter what 'valid' arguements you come up with, it's a matter of taste in the end..


If you think music is 100% subjective you've got something to learn.
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline clhiospzitn

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #5 on: November 09, 2007, 04:50:56 PM »
I think his Piano Sonata in B minor and the Transcendental Etudes would be considered his best pieces; also the complete Annees de Perlenage is a pretty monumental work as well.

Besides these I love his Hungarian Rhapsodies, Liebestraume, and piano transcriptions, but I don't think I'd put these in the same group as the pieces mentioned above, composition-wise.
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley

Offline faustsaccomplice

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #6 on: November 09, 2007, 06:02:56 PM »

Offline faustsaccomplice

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #7 on: November 09, 2007, 06:04:01 PM »
If you think music is 100% subjective you've got something to learn.

concurred

Offline liszt-essence

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #8 on: November 10, 2007, 06:07:43 PM »
If you think music is 100% subjective you've got something to learn.

And what in particulair, would I have to learn?

Offline slobone

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #9 on: November 11, 2007, 08:33:25 PM »
Frankly I find Liszt's music a big bore, except for the Hungarian Rhapsodies, which I love, and some of the transcriptions, which I enjoy in small doses. Once in a while Un Sospiro, but Victor Borge killed off the Liebestraum forever.

Unfortunately every blinking pianist these days thinks they have to have Liszt in their repertoire. But at any given moment there are maybe 2-3 performers in the world who have both the technique and the musicianship to make him worth listening to.

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #10 on: November 11, 2007, 08:40:26 PM »
Frankly I find Liszt's music a big bore, except for the Hungarian Rhapsodies, which I love, and some of the transcriptions, which I enjoy in small doses. Once in a while Un Sospiro, but Victor Borge killed off the Liebestraum forever.

Unfortunately every blinking pianist these days thinks they have to have Liszt in their repertoire. But at any given moment there are maybe 2-3 performers in the world who have both the technique and the musicianship to make him worth listening to.

I have never been a huge fan of Liszt either - too many parallel diminished 7th chords for my taste...I have always detested the sound of those in parallel motion.

That said, at his best, I still think he is a wonderful composer.
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline wotgoplunk

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #11 on: November 11, 2007, 08:41:32 PM »
Piano sonata, and 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody.

I'm indifferent to the rest.

Hamelin's Sospiro is quite nice.
Cogito eggo sum. I think, therefore I am a waffle.

Offline houseofblackleaves

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #12 on: November 12, 2007, 02:39:00 AM »
Best for me:

Piano Sonata, HR no.6, Feux Follets, Don Juan & Faust Valse transcriptions.

Offline alpacinator1

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #13 on: November 12, 2007, 02:50:21 AM »
I love La Campanella, the 6th Hungarian Rhapsody and Un Sospiro.
Working on:
Beethoven - Waldstein Sonata
Bach - C minor WTC I
Liszt - Liebestraume no. 3
Chopin - etude 25-12

Offline bob3.1415926

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #14 on: November 12, 2007, 10:43:38 AM »
No-one has mentioned Funerailles! I adore it! After that probably Harmonies Du Soir, although there is plenty of stuff he wrote that I haven't heard.
The HRs are lots of fun, and crowd pleasers, but I don't see them as the kind of project you can really sink your teeth into and try and find a interesting interpretation. Require phenomenal technique though.

Offline frigo

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #15 on: November 12, 2007, 12:57:50 PM »
What do you think about is piano concerto no1 and Les Aneés de Pellegrinage, that includes compositions like Switzerland - Oberman Valey? This last composition is fourteen minutes boring work with small lightnings of beautiful melodies...

What do you all think about them?

Offline bob3.1415926

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #16 on: November 12, 2007, 01:24:08 PM »
I'll be honest with you, I don't own a recording of either of these, so I have only actually heard the piano conc no.1 once, and it didn't instantly grab me (the way prok conc no.1 did for example), but I'd like to give it more of a chance. Similarly with Les Aneés de Pellegrinage I've only heard the whole thing a handful of times, so don't really feel able to comment properly  :-[

Offline mikey6

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #17 on: November 13, 2007, 04:08:05 PM »
What do you think about is piano concerto no1 and Les Aneés de Pellegrinage, that includes compositions like Switzerland - Oberman Valey? This last composition is fourteen minutes boring work with small lightnings of beautiful melodies...

What do you all think about them?

I've played Vallee d'Obermann and it is far from fourteen minutes boring work! While it is hard to pull off, there is a dark intensity and melancholy to it that's amazing and it's a crowd pleaser! ;) And it's an great work too, 14 minutes carved out of 3 notes!
Never look at the trombones. You'll only encourage them.
Richard Strauss

Offline frigo

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #18 on: November 13, 2007, 06:33:36 PM »
Well, maybe I think it's a boring composition because I have never played it, and I don't know it as well as you. Probably...  :-[

Offline soliloquy

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 01:58:05 AM »
Ballade No. 2, Harmonies Poetiques et Religiouses, Annees des Pelerinage "Italy", Trancriptions on Wagner's "Isolde's Liebestod" and "Overture to Tannhauser", Symphonic Poems, Piano Concerto No. 2


Best, not favorite.

Offline mikey6

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #20 on: November 14, 2007, 04:46:58 PM »
Ballade No. 2, Harmonies Poetiques et Religiouses, Annees des Pelerinage "Italy", Trancriptions on Wagner's "Isolde's Liebestod" and "Overture to Tannhauser", Symphonic Poems, Piano Concerto No. 2


Best, not favorite.
Maybe not favourite but still a subjective list.  It's generally argued the symphonic poems are ceratinly not all equal in quality and the Sonata is his 'best' piano work.  However I'm not getting into an arguement over this.
Never look at the trombones. You'll only encourage them.
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Offline njalli

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #21 on: November 14, 2007, 08:08:15 PM »
libeströme - dreams of love

Offline soliloquy

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #22 on: November 14, 2007, 09:30:39 PM »
Maybe not favourite but still a subjective list.  It's generally argued the symphonic poems are ceratinly not all equal in quality and the Sonata is his 'best' piano work.  However I'm not getting into an arguement over this.

I would be impressed if anyone could convince me that some 30 minute quasi-variation "sonata" with no climax what-so-ever, and next-to-none-what-so-ever harmonic progression, is better than the Harmonies Poetiques et Religiouses.

Offline dnephi

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 03:38:54 AM »
Get ready, Soliliquy.  Here we go:

The Liszt Sonata is cast in a "double structure."  It is in an enormous Sonata Allegro form, complete with exposition, development, recapitulation, and coda.  Simultaneously, it is in a four-movement form, including a Sonatina form first movement, complete sonata form 2nd movement, a fugato/scherzo third movement, and a finale.  I have actually argued that there may be a scherzo within the sonatina form first movement, creating a symmetrical structure of Fast/Scherzo/Slow/Scherzo/Fast. 

A structure of this kind was not imitated until 1901, nearly 50 years later, when Schoenberg wrote his first chamber symphony.

When it comes to tonality, we have B minor defined as tonic at measure 18 or 35 (forgive me, it's been 10 months since my paper.)  We leave it soon and never return to it until m. 535, the recapitulation.  This is a double return, heralded by an enormous climax and a spectacular ride. 

The second movement is in the Tonic major, which is unusual for a minor key, but not unusual if you consider Liszt's choices for tonality in his second subject sections.  Interestingly enough, Liszt's tonalities have specific ideas or moods attached.  D minor is the key of death and damnation, Ab the key of love, E Major the religious mode, F# major representing the distant or unattainable, for example.  The andante sostenuto is in F# major.

When it comes to discussions of climax, there are 7 places in the sonata which are marked FFF.  While other climaxes rival it in terms of sheer volume, that in the climax of the Andante Sostenuto has the greatest emotional pull and therefore, it should be differentiated as such. 

Hope you have a better understanding of the sonata now,

Daniel
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #24 on: November 16, 2007, 09:58:12 PM »
Get ready, Soliliquy.  Here we go:

The Liszt Sonata is cast in a "double structure."  It is in an enormous Sonata Allegro form, complete with exposition, development, recapitulation, and coda.  Simultaneously, it is in a four-movement form, including a Sonatina form first movement, complete sonata form 2nd movement, a fugato/scherzo third movement, and a finale.  I have actually argued that there may be a scherzo within the sonatina form first movement, creating a symmetrical structure of Fast/Scherzo/Slow/Scherzo/Fast. 

A structure of this kind was not imitated until 1901, nearly 50 years later, when Schoenberg wrote his first chamber symphony.

When it comes to tonality, we have B minor defined as tonic at measure 18 or 35 (forgive me, it's been 10 months since my paper.)  We leave it soon and never return to it until m. 535, the recapitulation.  This is a double return, heralded by an enormous climax and a spectacular ride. 

The second movement is in the Tonic major, which is unusual for a minor key, but not unusual if you consider Liszt's choices for tonality in his second subject sections.  Interestingly enough, Liszt's tonalities have specific ideas or moods attached.  D minor is the key of death and damnation, Ab the key of love, E Major the religious mode, F# major representing the distant or unattainable, for example.  The andante sostenuto is in F# major.

When it comes to discussions of climax, there are 7 places in the sonata which are marked FFF.  While other climaxes rival it in terms of sheer volume, that in the climax of the Andante Sostenuto has the greatest emotional pull and therefore, it should be differentiated as such. 

Hope you have a better understanding of the sonata now,

Daniel

I do agree that the sonata is one of Liszt's best compositions, but all you have done here is tell us what is unusual about the work, not what is so good about it. You do point out things that are true, but it is akin to someone defining the genius of Beethoven's fifth symphony based on its derivative four-note motive.
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline dnephi

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #25 on: November 17, 2007, 09:19:49 PM »
Does that not bind the piece together and provide a remarkable sense of unity?  To understand Liszt, you have to understand that he is a completely modern composer.  Intellectual ideas are very important to him.  For instance, the end of the Norma paraphrase, where the two ideas ae juxtaposed in counterpoint is not only a great musical climax, it is a psychological compression of the entire four-hour opera and demonstration of the inner struggle of the main character. 

I'd say that Liszt is an acquired taste.
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline soderlund

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #26 on: November 18, 2007, 05:37:11 PM »
Get ready, Soliliquy.  Here we go:

Interestingly enough, Liszt's tonalities have specific ideas or moods attached.  D minor is the key of death and damnation, Ab the key of love, E Major the religious mode, F# major representing the distant or unattainable, for example.  The andante sostenuto is in F# major.

Daniel

I found this very interesting, Daniel. D minor - Mazeppa, Ab major Liebesträume no.3 for example. Do you know what he had in mind for the other keys? Others examples?
I find Chopin did the same thing with some keys, for example F minor is very dark and upset, like the F minor prelude, parts of the F minor concerto and his F minor etude op.10 no. 9. I hadn't thought about Liszt in the same way, but I don't know his music as well as Chopin's either. Anyway, it would be very interesting if you developed this.

Offline jpowell

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Re: Liszt best compositions
«Reply #27 on: November 18, 2007, 05:57:32 PM »
My favourite Liszt pieces that spring to mind right now are:

En reve
Lugubre Gondola
Glanes de Woronice
Deux arabesques sur melodies russes
Berceuse
Malediction
Scherzo und Marsch
Mephisto Waltz no.3
Bagatelle ohne Tonart
Sonata
Etudes: Feux follets, Ricordanza, Wilde Jagd, Ab irato
Nuages gris
Apparitions
La romanesca
Harmonies poetiques et religieuses (but early short version without the cloying religiosity)
Annees de pelerinage: Au bord d'une source, Sonnetti di Petraca, Fantasia quasi sonata, Venezia e Napoli, many parts of book III
Soirees musicales
Nuits d’été ŕ Pausilippe
Valses oubliees
several of the Magyar dallok
Totentanz
Réminiscences de Norma [Bellini]
Die Zelle in Nonnenwerth
Tarantelle di bravura d’aprčs la tarantelle de La muette de Portici [Auber]
Rigoletto: paraphrase de concert [Verdi]
Miserere du Trovatore [Verdi]
Fünf kleine Klavierstücke
Weihnachtsbaum: Carillon
Dem Andenken Petöfis
Réminiscences de Boccanegra [Verdi]