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Topic: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage  (Read 5202 times)

Offline cziffra

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Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
on: April 11, 2004, 02:16:01 PM
What does everybody think if this set?  Does anyone know of any really good complete recordings?  Anyone know anything special about it?  Love it?  Hate it?  etc  

To start, i'll just paste something i found on a french website summarising the piece:

Franz Liszt (1811-1886)

Years of Pilgrimage
First Year: Switzerland (1848-1854)
Vault of William Tell - With the Lake Wallenstadt - Pastorale - At the edge of a source - Storm - Valley of Obermann - Eclogue - Evil of the country - Bells of Geneva

Second Year: Italy (1837-1849)
Sposalizio - It Penseroso - Canzonetta del Salvator Rosa - Sonetto 47 del Petrarca - Sonetto 104 del Petrarca - Sonetto 123 del Petrarca - After a reading of Dante. Fantasia quasi sonata
Supplement: Venezia E Napoli
Gondoliera - Canzone - Tarantella

Third Year (1867-1877)
Angelus! Prayer with the guardian angels - With the Cypresses of the Villa of Este. Thrénodie n° 1 - With the Cypresses of the Villa of Este. Thrénodie n° 2 - Dancing waters to the Villa of Este - Sunt lacrymae rerum. In Hungarian mode - funeral March - Sursum twisted. Erhebet the Eure Herzen
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline Sketchee

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #1 on: April 12, 2004, 03:47:31 PM
I'd like to learn a whole book.  I know Sonetto 104 del Petrarca.  A classmate at school performed Sposalizio a few years back beautifully. The pieces in these sets are pretty nice and there most aren't as commonly overplayed as other Liszt works.
Sketchee
https://www.sketchee.com [Paintings. Music.]

Offline cziffra

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #2 on: April 12, 2004, 05:04:24 PM
i think the same- i'ts funny everyone gets hung up on un sospiro and la campanella when these seem to be far more interesting and poetic
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline donjuan

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #3 on: April 15, 2004, 01:05:03 AM
The years of Pilgrimage of Liszt are perhaps the best summary of liszt and his life, the way he changed over time and his maturing style.

I have played Sonetto 104 del petrarca, the Fountains of the Villa d'Este, and Tarantella from Venezia e Napoli.  

My goal in playing this music is to experience the composer and play something from each period of his life (1811 - 1886).

I suggest learning "at the edge of a source"(beside a spring) because it will develop the finest of fingerwork, and help make each finger independent.  Pianists will also strive in this piece and in "Fountains of the Villa d'Este" to create the fountain/water atmosphere which is perhaps the greatest artistic challenge.

I know first-hand that Sonetto 104 needs absolute sincerity in the manner which it is performed.  I suggest learning this piece if you have problems with mannerisms and false virtuosity which somtimes destroys the music.

This is my first posting on the forum.  I wish to share my opinion throughout the world and contact fanatics of Liszt, like me.    

Offline erik-

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #4 on: April 15, 2004, 11:50:18 AM
One of the best complete recording of theses pieces, if not the best, is the one by Lazar Berman.

Offline IgnazPaderewski

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #5 on: April 15, 2004, 06:56:41 PM
please get leslie howard, you can guarantee that it will be an honest representation to the the best of LH's ability of what Liszt was after with these pieces.

Offline Sketchee

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #6 on: May 05, 2004, 12:50:44 AM
BTW, I have the Dover edition of this, complete in one book. (At alldirect.com its only $10.51 + 3.45 shipping while it would be $16.95 retail!) It's great and includes and Appendix of related works:  Lyon, Apparations, Tre Sonnetti del Petrarca and Venezia e Napoli.

It's pretty interesting to see how the related works key into the final product.  I think I might learn the original version of Sonetto 104 as a nice variant.  It has a pretty different beginning!
Sketchee
https://www.sketchee.com [Paintings. Music.]

Offline donjuan

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #7 on: May 05, 2004, 04:24:28 AM
Quote
BTW, I have the Dover edition of this, complete in one book. (At alldirect.com its only $10.51 + 3.45 shipping while it would be $16.95 retail!) It's great and includes and Appendix of related works:  Lyon, Apparations, Tre Sonnetti del Petrarca and Venezia e Napoli.

It's pretty interesting to see how the related works key into the final product.  I think I might learn the original version of Sonetto 104 as a nice variant.  It has a pretty different beginning!

Hi Sketchee,
I also have this book- the one with Liszt on the cover leaning on his wooden piano- It's great, I agree.  I have probably used it more this year than any other book.  Have you considered getting Dover's collection of Liszt Transcriptions "Piano Transcriptions from French and Italian Operas"?  If you liked the years of pilgrimage collection, you are sure to like that.

In the Venezia e Napoli section of the book, have you studied anything?  I did Tarantella and am considering doing Gondoliera.  
What pieces from the Years of Pilgrimage have you done?
donjuan

Offline Sketchee

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #8 on: May 05, 2004, 05:29:31 AM
I actually just got this book recently so the only piece I've really worked on is the Sonetto 104. I actually started learning that piece from the other Dover book "Liszt Masterpieces for Solo Piano : 13 Works" out of which I've done about 3 or 4 pieces and really like enjoy them.  I'm considering working on all of Italie so I can have them as a complete set.  One of my friends performed Sposalizio before.

I'm really wanting to download mp3s of the whole thing but I'm having a tough time finding any of the pieces.  My CD with Misha Dichter only has Au lac de Wallenstadt, Au bord d'une source, Valee d'Oberman, Sposalizio, Eglogue and Les jeux d'eau a la Villa d'Este.  Is there a decent cd set out there that includes the related works as well for not too much money?  I'm especially interested in hearing the original versions of Tre sonetti del Petrarca and Venesia e Napoli!

I definitely want the transcriptions books including the operas and the beethoven symphony books.  It looks like this book will be my summer project along with the Chopin I'm assigned for school.  It's so suprising how underplayed much of the music here is especially with how much we hear the same five or so pieces by Liszt.  There are pieces like Canzonetta del Salvator Rosa that aren't at all technically difficult at a glance.  There is music by list that's pretty accessible for the early-intermediate pianist!
Sketchee
https://www.sketchee.com [Paintings. Music.]

Offline donjuan

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #9 on: May 06, 2004, 01:26:48 AM
Quote
I actually just got this book recently so the only piece I've really worked on is the Sonetto 104. I actually started learning that piece from the other Dover book "Liszt Masterpieces for Solo Piano : 13 Works" out of which I've done about 3 or 4 pieces and really like enjoy them.  I'm considering working on all of Italie so I can have them as a complete set.  One of my friends performed Sposalizio before.

I'm really wanting to download mp3s of the whole thing but I'm having a tough time finding any of the pieces.  My CD with Misha Dichter only has Au lac de Wallenstadt, Au bord d'une source, Valee d'Oberman, Sposalizio, Eglogue and Les jeux d'eau a la Villa d'Este.  Is there a decent cd set out there that includes the related works as well for not too much money?  I'm especially interested in hearing the original versions of Tre sonetti del Petrarca and Venesia e Napoli!

I definitely want the transcriptions books including the operas and the beethoven symphony books.  It looks like this book will be my summer project along with the Chopin I'm assigned for school.  It's so suprising how underplayed much of the music here is especially with how much we hear the same five or so pieces by Liszt.  There are pieces like Canzonetta del Salvator Rosa that aren't at all technically difficult at a glance.  There is music by list that's pretty accessible for the early-intermediate pianist!

wow, well I have about 8 Dover books of Liszt.  For recordings, I go to the local library. (That's the good thing about liking classical music- we don't need the latest recordings).  If you simply need to hear someone play the music to know what it sounds like, Leslie Howard or Jorge Bolet have great recordings of the first and second years of Pilgrimage.  I am still trying to find a complete recording of the third year.  If you want to find the 3 Apparitions, Leslie Howard has a 2CD set called "The Young Liszt" available from Amazon.com.  I can't find the original versions of Venizia e Napoli or the three Petrarca Sonnets.  Liszt revised them, and since then no one plays anything but the latest versions.  I would love to hear someone play the originals to completely understand Liszt's original ideas.  

I found the three Apparitions disappointing.  I would love to find a recording of "Lyon"  do you have one?

donjuan

p.s. if you want recommendations on which pieces of Liszt's years of pilgrimage to work on, I recommend Les jeux d'eau a la Villa d'Este.  It was a lot of fun and I won a scholarship at a music festival for performing it.

Sposalizio is also great, but it takes special talent to make the music move and not drag.  I also played Sonetto 104 del Petrarca.  have you ever heard Horowitz's recording of it?  :obreathtaking, absolutely breathtaking!

Offline gaspard

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #10 on: May 10, 2004, 02:40:23 AM
Which performance of Horowitz playing Sonetto 104 are you referring. His live performance in Russia (when he was very old) playing Sonetto 104 has some wonderful moments but the obvious mistakes took away from the performance. (He did play some passages that I have not heard played at such speed.)

Offline donjuan

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #11 on: May 11, 2004, 04:04:00 AM
Quote
Which performance of Horowitz playing Sonetto 104 are you referring. His live performance in Russia (when he was very old) playing Sonetto 104 has some wonderful moments but the obvious mistakes took away from the performance. (He did play some passages that I have not heard played at such speed.)

To me, Horowitz wouldnt have the effect on an audience he does without the mistakes.  A wrong note- is nothing to an audience.  boredom, forgetfulness, and mannerisms are a problem for audiences.  The performance of Sonetto by Horowitz I was refering to was the one from the Moscow concert.  Who cares about wrong notes? really, Who will remember those things?!  The only thing any listener should experience is the bittersweet, wistful feeling Horowitz unleashes upon the audience.  If you are bothered by "wrong notes", it's possible you are perceiving the whole purpose of music wrong...
donjuan

Offline thomas_williams

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #12 on: May 12, 2004, 12:52:08 AM
I have just recently started learning "Sposalizio" from this collection.  I don't know it well enough to really comment on it much yet, but it is a very beautiful piece.  My teacher suggested it.  I might possibly use it for conservatory auditions.
It's GREAT to be a classical musician!

Offline gaspard

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #13 on: May 13, 2004, 02:21:53 AM
DonJuan wrote:
purpose of music wrong...
donjuan

DonJuan, I'm a Horowitz fan also but this particular performance of Sonetto 104 was not his better performance. There were several mistakes and a bit of a fumble which he recovered. I believe he lost his concentration because he knew the composition well and it caught him off guard. Age can do that to a man. Had he been a new upstart the critics would torn him apart. Because it was the Horowitz who gave us years of great performances we can over look the errors of a very old man. He is one of the greatest pianist of our time.

Offline donjuan

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #14 on: May 13, 2004, 06:32:32 AM
I know that fumble you were mentioning- the one coming out of the decent in thirds... the difference is, when Horowitz makes a mistake, everyone still listens and enjoys.  when anyone else makes a mistake, it's distracting!  Keep in mind that the concert was very long indeed, and for an old man to play for so long, so well, is amazing in itself.  Most of us will strive for our whole lives and never be able to capture the audience.  I agree with you comopletely, he is the greatest of our time.
donjuan

Offline Sketchee

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #15 on: May 13, 2004, 06:48:38 PM
I can live with the mistakes.  It's part of humanizing the music.  It kind of gives us a little bit of a connection because we all mistakes.  A computer could easily make a perfect performance and I don't want any performer--even one as great as horowitz--to transcend that human aspect.  I wouldn't want to listen to a human computer.  ;D
Sketchee
https://www.sketchee.com [Paintings. Music.]

Offline Sketchee

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #16 on: May 13, 2004, 11:29:39 PM
Btw, does anyone have the words and translations to the Sonneto del Petrarca piece?  The dover complete set doesn't include them although 104's words are included in the 13 Works book.
Sketchee
https://www.sketchee.com [Paintings. Music.]

Offline chromatickler

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #17 on: May 15, 2004, 12:36:12 PM
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I wouldn't want to listen to a human computer.  ;D
I listen to Michelangeli all the time.  8)

Offline donjuan

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Re: Liszt: Years of Pilgrimage
Reply #18 on: May 16, 2004, 07:57:55 AM
Quote

I listen to Michelangeli all the time.  8)

lol ;D
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