General Starting Advice Needed

[bencrow]

I would like to start by saying hi to everyone as this is my first post on this forum.  I have been wanting to learn to play the piano for years now, but never took the time to follow that dream until last week when I bought myself a decent digital piano.  I’ve had fun trying to teach myself songs that I’ve always wanted to play, but after reading some posts on this forum, I’ve realized that I might be doing myself a great disservice by jumping into pieces that I’m not ready for without taking the time to teach myself any of the basics.  I’ve read that bad habits learned when first picking up the piano can be very hard to unlearn.  So, I guess my question is what would be the best course of action for someone just starting who would like to teach himself the piano?  What exercises should I be doing?  What books should I pick up?  Any and all advice will be appreciated, except to find a teacher.  I really am starting from square one so feel free to treat me like I know absolutely nothing about the piano, because I don’t.  I’m not sure if it will affect any advice or not but I prefer classical music, especially Schumann, Chopin, and Rachmaninov.  I have what my violin teacher described as an “exceptional” ear for music, but am just now teaching myself to read it.  I look forward to your responses, and appreciate your time and interest.

[knabe31]

Sorry, but my only recommendation would be to find a good teacher. You will progress far more quickly and with  much less frustration if you are guided by a professional who knows how to properly show you through the learning process. From 30 plus years of experience the piano is not an easy instrument to learn. I still take a weekly lesson with a professor and learn something new every week. You will be much more satisfied with what you are playing and how you are playing if you learn how to do it properly. Take that first step and you will have a lifetime of musical enjoyement as I have. Good luck.   

[dan101]

Ask people whos kids are invoilved in piano if they are happy with their kid's piano teacher. If they are, get a phone number. Also, visit some websites by searching for 'piano lessons' of 'free piano lessons'. The top ranked pages will most likely be able to give you some tips.

[m1469]

If you are bent on not having a teacher in the formal sense, my advice is to dig deeply (and I mean deeply) into this forum, let something grab your curiousity, follow it for awhile, come back with specific thoughts and questions about what you find.

Welcome  .

[bencrow]

Thanks for all of the great advice so far.  To clarify, I'm not against the idea of a teacher, and will be looking into one in the future, but at the moment it would not be financially prudent.  I basically spent what spare money I had on the piano.  I guess what I’m really looking for right now is an understanding of what finger exercises I should be doing and such.  I keep reading about different exercises mentioned in passing and I have no idea how to do them.  If any of you have suggestions on reading material or a specific website, it would be most helpful.  I’m currently working on “Mastering the Piano” by Carl Humphries, but find the beginning stuff to be a little dry and hard to follow.  Also, I’m open to any recommendations for a good teacher in the Tempe, AZ area.  Thanks again.

[ramithediv]

If you are bent on not having a teacher in the formal sense, my advice is to dig deeply (and I mean deeply) into this forum, let something grab your curiousity, follow it for awhile, come back with specific thoughts and questions about what you find.

Welcome  .

Yes, find a fairly simple piece that you can't stop listening to, and do not stop listening to it. Get the sheet music for it and try what you can. Pick out parts of it that perhaps sound easy, and work on those first. then build around that. It's easy to add a couple of more difficult bars to something you've learnt. Then just keep adding bars or phrases. Soon you will have that piece.

We are all here to help, well, most of us. lol.

[rc]

My main sources of information were the internet (old posts in this forum, links to sites), and books.  But I'm the sort of person who likes to read a lot to begin with, I know not everybody is like that.

Thinking back to how I began, I immediately jumped into my favorite pieces.  I'd learn the first few bars of pieces that were way over my head, find it getting too difficult then move onto the next impossible hard piece   Nothing horrible happened, it was good for my motivation to be learning bits of my favorite music and I gradually learned that I have to start with easier stuff.

So I began learning simple pieces, gradually increasing in difficulty and just following my curiousity.  This went on for some time until I began to realize I was sorely lacking in fundamentals like sight reading, theory and basic technical patterns (scales, chords, arpeggios), so I stepped back and filled in the gaps.  Around this point I got a teacher.

You see, there are many paths to learning and we can change along the way.  I believe it's best to be a well-rounded musician and would advise you to try and learn in a balanced way (not to neglect the weaknesses).

But when you begin everything is a weakness   I think it would be good to start learning simple pieces and how to play 1-octave scales.  Don't be put off by the idea of simple pieces - there's a lot of easy music that sounds good and is fun to play.

So, to help us know where you're at in reading: do you know the musical alphabet? how sharps and flats work? Where to find middle C on the page and on the keyboard? What numbers represent what fingers?

Give me a day or two and I'll dig up a list of books and links that I've found useful.

[bencrow]

Thanks for the information and kind words, RC. 

So, to help us know where you're at in reading: do you know the musical alphabet? how sharps and flats work? Where to find middle C on the page and on the keyboard? What numbers represent what fingers?

I am currently trying to teach myself how to read music, but it is slow going.  I know all about sharps and flats and middle C as well as numbered fingers, but I still can't point to most notes on a page and tell you what it is without a reference sheet that I drew up.  Most recently, I found the sheet music for scales on this site and have been working on proper fingering with those (also slow going).  I have a lot of dexterity yet to build, and find that my left pinky is a little on the weak side.  I've also learned a little about chords and how to find them.  When I'm not working on scales, I'm trying to teach myself Schumann's "The Poor Orphan" and "First Sorrow".  I realize that these pieces are way above my head but I just can't help myself.  I love the way they sound and I thought they were going to be a lot easier then they actually are.  I look forward to any and all wisdom that you are willing to share.  Thanks again.

[pianolessonsinfo]

If you want to use a book, I recommend the Adult Piano Adventures book. It has has interesting pieces and a great format. Something you can do to try and avoid bad habits is to search for videos on how to play piano. Search for things like hand positioning, scale technique, etc - you can be specific. There are a lot of free websites and videos on these things. Some of the online piano lesson courses have a bunch of free lessons also. I've seen them but never subscribed so I'm not sure how great they are.
Hope that helps.

[shingo]

You sound pretty organised and dedicated towards learning piano which is great. One thing that might be useful is finding a piece you like and is relatively easy and learning some of this in between exercises ect so as not to get stale purely focusing on the technical side.
     I understand that you do not wish to pick up bad technique but if you are getting a teacher soon then any inaacuracies should be put right fairly quickly considering you wont have had much time for them to engrain themselves.
     I remember when I first started I gained immense satisfaction from each bit of headway on a song (I mean song), and it propelled me to continue and boosted my enjoyment immensely.
     Good luck.

[rc]

It looks like you're doing a good job from your own initiative Bencrow.  Here are some resources:

First, on this site there are a lot of useful members, but on stands out for his amount of quality posts - Bernhard.  Do a search on discussions he's been in and you'll have a lot of good posts to read.

Websites (free):

https://www.sheetmusicarchive.net - free sheet music. Not the best editions, but FREE!

https://www.practicespot.com/home.php - ideas to use in practice

https://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm - book covering many topics in piano

https://pianoeducation.org/index.html - I liked the interviews on this site

https://www.music.sc.edu/ea/keyboard/ppf/index.html - online magazine, mostly teacher oriented but I found some useful articles here.

https://www.pianoeu.com/intro.html - a confusing and difficult site, and I think part of the main premise might be based on a misunderstanding...  But I still found the ideas covered in this site very useful

https://ericbarnhill.wordpress.com/ - recordings of impressive improvisations, the FAQ and improv facts to the right have useful insights

https://www.improvise.nl/cursuseng.html - a guide to improvising.

Some project gutenberg e-texts I've found, haven't gotten around to reading them all yet though:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/18284/18284.txt
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/17474/17474.txt
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/18560/18560.txt
https://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4386
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16225/16225.txt
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16459/16459.txt
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/15604/15604.txt
https://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/1/4/3/3/14339/14339.htm

https://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1368793 - Schumann on learning music

Books:

The Great Pianists by Harold Schonberg - An overview of the great pianists in history

The Art of Piano Playing by Heinrich Neuhaus - A bit disorganized, but covers a lot of ground

Mastery by George Leonard - Not about piano, but about learning in general.  A compact book, well written, good description of the how to approach longterm learning.  Highly recommended.

With Your Own Two Hands by Seymour Bernstein - Covers a lot of ground, I like his attitudes, the best description of sightreading I've come across.

Great Pianists Speak For Themselves by Elyse Mach - interviews with great pianists, interesting and inspiring.  There is also a second part.

There are more, but these are what stick out off the top of my head.  Lots to keep busy with!  Anyways I think you're on the right path, seeking information, learning to read, getting your hands into some pieces and starting on scales.  Have fun and feel free to ask any questions!

[bencrow]

   Wow, RC!  That’s a lot of useful information.  I appreciate you taking so much time out of your day to plant me on the right path.  The same goes for everyone else who has posted.  Everyone has been exceedingly encouraging and helpful.  It’s rare that you find a forum of people that are so interested in helping each other along.  I’m very happy that I found this site.  I’ve got a lot of great resources to look into now, and already feel a bit less like I’m floundering.  I’ve printed off some easier pieces recently and started working through those, which in combination with all of this reading material should keep me busy for a while.  I look forward to any further advice any of you feels like sharing.  Thanks again.

[rc]

Your welcome, I'm glad to help out in any way I can, others did the same for me when I was beginning... (you were already on the right path)

 

[bencrow]

   I’ve finally found time to really dig in to some of the links provided above, and have found them to be very useful.  I do have a quick question though for anybody who might know.  Is there an online resource for musical definitions?  I find that I keep running into words such as “key signature” that these sites assume I know but I don’t.  Any help will be appreciated.  By the way, RC, practicespot.com is an awesome site and I appreciate you pointing me to it.  Lots of useful beginners stuff there.

 Nevermind.  I found one on practicespot.com.

[slobone]

Also, do spend some time learning to play by ear. Get a recording of some simple piece, or even a pop song, and try to pick out the notes on the piano. Youtube is a great place to find stuff like that.

... but do get a teacher as soon as you can afford it. Sometimes there are group piano classes offered at local colleges or adult education centers -- that would be better than trying to learn on your own.

And save up for a real piano! If you're concerned about bad habits, you'll pick up a lot of them on a digital piano.

[rc]

And save up for a real piano! If you're concerned about bad habits, you'll pick up a lot of them on a digital piano.

If the action is like a piano, then a digital won't hurt.  There are nuances that you can't get on a digital and the sound is never the same as actual vibrating strings, but a digital is a great place to start and being able to practice through headphones is invaluable...  Maybe you're thinking of those little plastic keyboards that don't have weighted keys - those are no good.

[slobone]

No, I've played on a digital piano with weighted keys -- it was a Roland. And I listened through headphones so as not to bother the neighbors.

The keys weren't so bad -- I've played on regular pianos that were worse. It was the headphones that nearly drove me crazy. It's just not a natural way to listen to yourself play. I'm convinced that the sound goes through your brain in a whole different direction.

Also the quality of the sound, which was deceptively perfect. I think the subtle imperfections of a real piano are part of its charm, and you miss that on a digital, no matter how well they sample.

It's a very sensual experience to press a key and actually FEEL the thrum of the bass string or the brilliance of the treble. It really connects you with the music.

If a digital is all you can use for the time being, then fine -- you can learn a lot that way. But sooner or later I think everybody needs to start playing on the old-fashioned kind.

And by the way, in most places you can get an old piano real cheap -- certainly cheaper than a good digital. Lots of times people give them away. I paid $50 for my last one, $50 to move it to my house, another $50 to get it tuned, and I was in business.

[rc]

I see what you mean now, and I agree.  Digital sounds digital (the italics are for contempt), music through headphones or speakers isn't as good as music surrounding you.  But remember Bencrow's still just starting and has spent his last money on the digital, so I don't think he'll need to worry about getting an upright for a bit yet.

I envy that you were able to find a decent piano for $50!  When I was looking all I could find for cheap were old clunkers with uneven action, buzzing or even dead notes... But now that you mention it, it probably would've been cheaper for me to get one repaired than it was to buy new.  Oh well...

Having both is great: headphones for when you don't want to bother anyone, strings & hammers for when you want to hear it properly, or perform.

[slobone]

I envy that you were able to find a decent piano for $50!  When I was looking all I could find for cheap were old clunkers with uneven action, buzzing or even dead notes... But now that you mention it, it probably would've been cheaper for me to get one repaired than it was to buy new.  Oh well...

I got lucky, they were moving out of town the next day and were frantic to get rid of it. It's not a top-tier piano -- it's an Emerson, which I hadn't heard of before. But it needed surprisingly few new strings, and the felt parts aren't in bad shape.

Plus the keytops are ivory, so if I ever get short of cash...

[anna_crusis]

If you're just starting out then the scales to learn are the major and natural minor scales starting on white notes. You probably won't be able to do both hands together for quite a while though, at least not without introducing a lot of undesirable contortions of your hands. The important thing I think is to *know* the scales because they are what music is constructed out of. It's like the alphabet or multiplication tables - absolutely essential if you're to really get anywhere. After that try those starting on black notes, and then have a stab at harmonic minor and melodic minor scales because pieces often slip in and out of the three different minor scales (which must look like a bewildering mishmash of accidentals to people who don't know the scales well).

The more you *understand* music, the less tedious and more enjoyable practicing is. I remember the thrill I first felt when I realised the connection between an Aminor and Emajor scale, because up till then they'd seemed entirely unrelated to me. Figuring it all out and discovering the logic behind the music was what made practice exciting for me. It was a voyage of discovery. Otherwise it would have been incredibly boring.

In the very beginning I also just used to bash out chords along with pop songs, and although it must have sounded absolutely horrible it was fairly easy to do and made me feel like I could actually play (and also help immensely with my co-ordination). Later on I found all those chords also littered classical pieces - they were just harder to spot because they were often broken into separate notes. That made reading music a hell of a lot easier.

I think the thing is just to find a balance between enjoyment and diligence. Have some fun with anything you feel you can tackle, but remember to learn the technical stuff too and try to use it in your playing and analyse how it fits in.

[bencrow]

Hey, guys.  Sorry that I haven’t responded in a while, but I’ve been having trouble with my account.  My digital piano does in fact have weighted keys, and I understand what you mean when you say that it would be better for me to learn on an authentic piano, but I live in a second story apartment complex and I also tend to move quite a bit so I need something quiet and mobile. 

At the moment I’m learning most of my music by ear and only read the sheet music when I can’t figure it out.  I can barely read music and it’s frustrating enough that I avoid it when possible. 

I’ve been practicing the scales some, and it does still feel very awkward to play them with both hands at once, but if nothing else it’s helping my dexterity.  As always, your advice is deeply appreciated and I look forward to any other suggestions that you are willing to share.

[rc]

Sure, I would advise that you don't avoid sightreading for too long.  It's a useful skill to have.  To be able to play through a piece right away is good for the enjoyment of music (perhaps not as polished as working through a piece for days, but you can get the gyst of the music immediately).  Memorization is great as well, but it DOES take time and if you can sightread you don't have to memorize simpler things, and it just makes the whole learning process faster the better you get at reading scores.

My teacher began playing at a restaurant, and he put together a book of good lounge-type tunes...  A BIG book of tunes, far more than would ever be practical to memorize, is all available for him to play at any time because he's a good sightreader.

If you avoid it for too long, you will develop a good memory but it can become a crutch.  It can be hard to start learning sightreading from scratch after you've reached a high level of performance through reliance on your memory.

That's exactly what I did, then when I decided to work on my sightreading I had to backtrack to the most simple little tunes.  It was pretty tedious for a while, but after getting a basic level of competency it starts to get more fun, and now the first thing I do when I work on any new piece is to sightread through it a bunch of times.  I'm far from being a great sightreader, but I'm glad I finally got on it because it opens a lot of doors.