When to join hands?

[Piazzo22]

I´m learning a Bach Fughetta hands separate.
How much time should I practice with each hand before trying to play hands together?

[dj]

untill u can play hands-separate comfortably

[DarkWind]

After both hands are comfy playing by themselves, join them together, but don't play as fast as if they do seperate, you'll probably end up playing very badly . Go slow and gradually increase speed, thats what usually works for me.

[bernhard]

In this particular case, almost as important as learning hands separate is to learn each voice separately (but keep the fingering)

You will be ready to join hands when:

1. You experience no technical problems (= physical movements/fingering)
2. When you have memorised the sound of each voice (not necessarily the playing - but you should be able to hum/whistle/sing/hear in your head each voice separately)

Beware though: when you join hands it will feel as if you had never seen the piece before. This is natural and to be expected (hands together is 37 times more difficult than hands separate). Just keep at it.

And you will never be albe to play HT as fast as HS, so aim to play HS 1.5 times faster than the final speed you want for hands together.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[rlefebvr]

O.K. I have been wanting to ask about this.

I am a firm believer in hand separate technique.
The problem is when you are ready to play HT, Is paying slow o.k. How slow is o.k. Should you play a only a few bars at a time until it is up to speed or to you play the whole thing and bring up the speed slowly but perfectly so the piece plays evenly throughout.

I often have problem bringing it together when the piece is off beat, so even if I can play hands separate fast and well, once I play HT, everything goes up in smoke.

[comme_le_vent]

is it ALWAYS best to learn hands seperately?

and - when i memorize pieces, i divide the piece into managable sections to work on individually.

is it best to learn the whole thing hands seperate then together-
or learn a section(eg. a page) hands seperate, then together, then move on to the next and do the same?

[comme_le_vent]

and when learning hands seperately
which order is it?

left , then right, then both?

or

right, then left, then both?

[Hmoll]

and when learning hands seperately
which order is it?

left , then right, then both?

or

right, then left, then both?

Depends on where the technical problems are. Chopin Op 10# 9 you would start with the left hand  A Chopin Waltz, you might start on the right hand - depending on the section- Chopin Op 25#1, roll the dice. . Start on the harder hand, the learn the easier hand, and incorporate the two at a slower tempo.

[Hmoll]

is it ALWAYS best to learn hands seperately?

No. If you can read through it comfortably HT, then skip the HS. However, I always memorise HS.

[bernhard]

Hmoll (as usual) is right. I would only add the following to what he said:

1. There is no need to practise the right and left hand corresponding passages. It is far better (and far more time effective) to choose the most difficult passage for the left hand, and the most difficult passage for the right hand and keep alternating between them. You may even choose RH and LH passages from different pieces!

2. In general I never learn a whole piece left hand alone, and a whole piece right hand alone. I just work on the technically challenging passages with HS. The only exception I make is for counterpoint music (e.g. Bach's fugues) where I will learn each voice in full separately. (Notice that this goes beyond hands separate).

Lefebvre asked:

The problem is when you are ready to play HT, Is paying slow o.k. How slow is o.k. Should you play a only a few bars at a time until it is up to speed or to you play the whole thing and bring up the speed slowly but perfectly so the piece plays evenly throughout.

Just because you have mastered a passage hands separate does not mean that you can play hands together straightaway. The problem you will be facing is co-ordination. And it must be tackled in the same systematic and careful way as you tackled technical problems with HS.

So to start with you may have to break down the passage you learned with HS again in smaller sections. But by far, the most efficient method I found to join hands is "note dropping" " which I have described here:


https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1067980504


Finally, there is nothing wrong with slow practice, as long as it is “slow motion” practice, that is you reproduce slowly the exact movements you would be using when playing at full speed.

Slow practice becomes counterproductive and nocive only when you use the slow speed to get away with unnecessary, inappropriate movements that you would never be able to reproduce at full speed. These are the movements that once ingrained and unconscious will create speed walls.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Clare]

Just to add - with a Bach fugue I continue practicing hands separately even when I can play hands together at the final speed. This decreases the chance of my fingers running away with me when I'm performing it.

[bernhard]

Just to add - with a Bach fugue I continue practicing hands separately even when I can play hands together at the final speed. This decreases the chance of my fingers running away with me when I'm performing it.

I totally agree.

With counterpoint music I will often keep playing hands separate, even after the piece has been mastered, in order to keep the melodic lines fresh in my mind.