How to turn the pages, when you are playing fast tempo music with both hands

[dora96]

Hello,

I find annoying when I have to turn the pages on some music in a  fast tempo, for example. I am playing Mendelssohn song without word op 53, Mozart sonata 3rd movement 330, some Beethoven sonata and Chopin fantastie op66. The piece is very fast  tempo, some pages need to turn it immediately. I myself find that it is stressed to need to turn the page but there is no one to do it for me. I know I can memorize the section I need it to join to other pages. However, in orchestra, playing as accompanist in a choir. How to do it?

I heard someone say " In piano exam, if I want to play with the music, I can't do memorization, without reading the music. I would like to have my music on the piano and play with memorization just in case my memory lapses, I can quick refer back to the book. Is there impossible ? I like to memorize the music specially Beethoven Sonata, so that I can need to worry to turn the pages, but I am not confident enough to memorize the whole sonata from start to finish. Can anyone advise me please?

[dana_minmin]

1st case: You may try to hinge to pages like 3 or 4 pages a row. Or to memorize a few lines until the next possible place to turn a page. Or buy a page turner if you like. I found it annoying too.

2nd case: I heard that rumor too. My ex-teacher says, when I was a kid,  it makes the situation worst if you memorize the whole piece and play with flaws. Years later I found (from the ABRSM syllabus if you're doing ABRSM) it's ok to slow down because of the page turning. You're not expected to play from memory.

[dora96]

Thank you for suggestion. In a piano exam, my teacher said I must have original books not photo copy. How do you hing original music book like SHIRMER'S? When I first started practising my exam dipolma (Trinity collage of music). I determined that I played  with memorization. Even though, I am bad with moemorization, I force myself to remember, the reason I want to know the music inside and out , and have the freedom not to refering the book and turning pages. But like you said it is worse to remember the whole piece and play with flaw. It is not required to do memorization during the exam. I find that it is hard to read the music now, becuase I am so used to play without the music, but I may not able to play under pressure, doing performance always has risk. I play at home good as gold, it will be totally different playing in the exam. It is struggle for me from time to time, I don't really know what emotional state I am in.

[dana_minmin]

I did that actually, many years ago when I was doing ABRSM grade 3 or 4 and the composition spreads only 3 pages. That was a tricky turning, so I made a "shrimp"

How do you memorize pieces? I used to play with the scores but at the same time I was relying on memory.  Sometimes I look up and take a glance and I found myself lost in tadpoles. I don't do exams now, so I can freely opt to play with scores or from memory.

Concentrate on music and you'll forget the examiner's presence. It works for me.

[PaulNaud]

Or buy a page turner if you like

What do you mean by page turner? I heard about a machine that turns the pages. Is it available in  music shops?

[dana_minmin]

Yeah it's a small device(I heard), with 2 subunits connected by a wire. One part really does the turning, and another part is a pedal or button that you can press on to it and make your page turned. Someone told me it turns a few pages only, I don't know. I've never planned to buy one.

I think it's available in music shops.

[Bob]

I thought it was legal to make copies of pages to facilitate a page turn?

There is that e-book device that will turn pages, but it's like $1,000, and you have to scan you're material into it.

Another trick I have heard of is to slighly enlarge the printed music on a copier.  You should be covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act or something similar.  Bad eyesight is a disability.  Compensating by enlarging the music a little is natural.  If that also solves your page turning problem, then so be it. 

[thalbergmad]

Problem solved by the great Victor Borge.

Thal

[richard black]

I thought it was legal to make copies of pages to facilitate a page turn?

Of course it is. If, for instance, you have a three-page piece with the page-turn somewhere impossible, you are perfectly entitled to copy that page and stick it to the printed copy so that you can see all three at once.

If you have a piece with more than 4 pages and no feasible page-turns, you are basically entitled to copy the whole piece and use scissors and sticky tape to arrange things so that you have a usable copy in terms of turning - I do this all the time. If you turn up to an exam or gig with a copy like that, and a printed copy also in your possession, they can hardly say you are breaking the law. I've never seen any explicit guidance on this in copyright laws, but a basic principle of law in every country is that common sense should be upheld and I can't imagine any judge allowing a case against someone for doing that - it would typically be considered a waste of court time. To be even more belt and braces, you could write on the copy (in coloured ink), some script to the effect of 'For use only on such-and-such a date for XYZ purpose'. Then make a point of destroying it after the exam.

Of course none of this would be proof against the examiner being an idiot, but most of them are real-world people who have also copied music for similar (and almost certainly also less justifiable!) reasons.

[Bob]

This thing looks interesting.

https://www.bilila.com/pagescore_turner


I see they have a "foot mouse" too.   


But expensive.     And then you have to scan in all your music.  And trust a computer to work correctly during a performances.  (shivers)

[jpowell]

If you're anything like me, watch out if you ask for a page turner for a piece in a concert and, as a result, get introduced to an extremely attractive young woman with a low cut top (glubokoye dekollete, as she referred to it). It can get quite tricky deciding what to concentrate on ...

[rob47]

If you're anything like me, watch out if you ask for a page turner for a piece in a concert and, as a result, get introduced to an extremely attractive young woman with a low cut top (glubokoye dekollete, as she referred to it). It can get quite tricky deciding what to concentrate on ...

[jinfiesto]

The idea of performing with music is almost abhorrent to me. Unless of course you're accompanying.

[Bob]

Oh well.  I don't know where the other list of foot page turners went to.

Here's another....

https://www.amazon.com/BT-105-Bluetooth-Wireless-Turner-ATFS-2/dp/B0053IFUDG/ref=sr_1_9?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1369277272&sr=1-9&keywords=keyboard+foot+pedal

BT-105 - Bluetooth Wireless Page Turner - with Two ATFS-2 Silent Pedals
 by AirTurn

[gvans]

Thanks for the Borge link, thalbergmad, I nearly split my shorts laughing.

I play a lot of chamber music (no, jinfiesto, we don't call it accompanying, we call it "chamber music") and it's pretty hard to memorize. Also, it's valuable to see what the string players are doing.

So page turning is a major issue. The Faure C minor Quartet I'm working on has 85 pages to the piano part!  

What I've learned to do is to drop out a hand and flip, usually with the right hand. This can get stressful, and you must actually practice your page turns before a concert. Another option is to memorize a staff or two until there's a break and flip there.

We hired a page turner for several concerts, and yes, she was truly beautiful, smart, distracting and all that, but she bailed at the last minute before a concert so that ended that...Another turner couldn't read music, and it was a re-run of Victor Borge. Pretty funny, actually.

The Orion Quartet, I believe, has gone the digital/foot-mouse route, requiring a laptop and scanner. Works pretty well for string players, but a lot of work for the pianist. When I heard them play the Brahms Quintet with Peter Serkin, he used a page turner.

I dunno...At least from my point of view, you can usually drop out a hand for a beat or two, get 'er done, and no one's the wiser.