What is the "meat and potatoe" repertoire -- and why ?

[m1469]

If you were creating a basic outline for piano repertoire that everyone "should" be familiar with, what would you say it is ?  I am thinking primarily in terms of beginning to intermidate/early advanced.  I am generally thinking about repertoire that is preparation for the advanced repertoire, as well as pieces that are either just good examples of composition and/or of (different styles of) music in general.

I would say that a piece or a few pieces from every era and major composers of those eras ... and all of the Bach inventions and sinfonias (P's and F's would come later).

What do you think *must* be added to this list under the criterian listed above ?

[m1469]

Baroque :

JS Bach -

Selected pieces from Anna Magdalena Buchlein
30 Inventions/sinfonias
Selected P's and F's

Scarlatti - Selected Sonatas

Classical :

Clementi - Selected Sonatinas (?)

Hadyn -   Selected Sonatas

Mozart - Selected Sonatas

Romantic

Beethoven - Selected pieces

Chopin -

Selected Preludes
Selected pieces

Liszt - Selected pieces

Schumann - 

Kinderscenen - Selections from
Album for the Young - Selections ?

Impressionistic

Debussy -   Children's corner - Selected pieces

Ravel - Selected pieces

20th C.

Bartok - selected pieces
Shostakovich - selected pieces



Okay, I can think about reasons for all of these but I won't write them in just yet. 

[contrapunctus]

It's "potato"

I'd say Bach WTC
Beethoven sonatas
Chopin etudes

Those are staples of pretty much everyone, I can't think of any other more widely played pieces.

But of course you do have to have the classic favorite Fur Elise, we can't forget about that--the meat and potatoes of every young student out there.

[dan101]

Select works from the three big Bs: Bach, Beethoven and Brahms. Bach's preludes and fugues, Beethoven's sonatas and some of Brahms' shorter piano works provide a repertoire list of diversity and interest.

Of course, Chopin and Debussy are musts, as they were two of the biggest influences in piano music writing of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries respectively. Selecting individual pieces by the above composers is done from the heart. Play pieces that move you and you will most likely move your audiences.

Best of luck in your future repertoire selections.

[m1469]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I agree that what you have suggested is probably "essential" rep., however, I am wanting to create a list of essential rep. for beginning to intermediate/early advanced, and something like the chopets doesn't fall into that category as a whole, imo.

[fnork]

sorabji - opus clavicembalisticum
ligeti - etudes
satie - vexations
cage - 4'33
nancarrow - tango?

 

[jpowell]

"Potato", surely?

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

Or is the added "e" an Americanism of which I'm ignorant?

 If so, please excuse such unwarranted orthographic intrusion.

Very good music for people who are not beginners can be found by Heller, Kirchner and Reinecke, all disciples of Schumann. Cycles of pieces like Chopin's Preludes are really full of rather frightening stuff I'm afraid.

[m1469]

oh well, see, "potatoe" is a kind of toe stew.  Pot a toe -- "pot" is self evident as it is clearly referring to the pot in which the stew is cooked.  "a" is m1469ian for "of" and "toe" is also self evident as referring to the phalanges found on our feet.

It's quite delicious, actually.  Now, don't you feel a bit silly for not knowing this ? 

[Bob]

.

[jinfiesto]

Meat and potatoes.. I believe the title of this topic is a typo. Anyways, WTC, Beethoven Sonatas, Mozart Sonatas, Anna Magdalena, Schubert Impromptus, Mendelssohn Songs Without Words, Schumann Kinderszenen, Chopin Etudes, Chopin Preludes, Debussy Children's corner and Suite Bergamasque. All of these I think give a good foundation in the various styles, and a good technical foundation as well. The Etudes may be too difficult to be considered foundational material, and the preludes as well, but other pieces by Chopin will do fine. I couldn't think of any foundational material from liszt, so that explains the lack of him in my liszt... Hahahaha.

[Bob]

.

[indutrial]

sorabji - opus clavicembalisticum
ligeti - etudes
satie - vexations
cage - 4'33
nancarrow - tango?

 

Though it's obvious that you're joking, I think that some (or all) of the Ligeti etudes should eventually find their way further into the standard repertoire, despite the unavoidable hurumphs that will resound from the snobs out there who think that musical development (not to mention pianistic development) ended with Kabelevsky and Shostakovich.

Not to mention that pianists should be encouraged to look into more recent work as part of the standard repertoire (at least for private study and enlightenment if not for immediate performance material). By that definition, I would include the etudes by Dusapin and Messiaen's Vingt Regards.

[mattgreenecomposer]

It's "potato"

I'd say Bach WTC
Beethoven sonatas
Chopin etudes

Perfect!  I was going to say exactly the same thing...

[leslieb547]

Personally, I would like to see Bertini studies, Schubert moment musicaux, Scriabin preludes and Janacek 'On an overgrown path' on any list. I'll pass on the Ligeti, Cage and Messiaen.

[general disarray]

It's "potato"

I'd say Bach WTC
Beethoven sonatas
Chopin etudes

You say "potato."
She says "potatoe"
You say "tomato."
She says "tomatoe."
"Potato," "potatoe," "tomato," "tomatoe"

Let's call the whole thing off.

[retrouvailles]

Personally, I would like to see Bertini studies, Schubert moment musicaux, Scriabin preludes and Janacek 'On an overgrown path' on any list. I'll pass on the Ligeti, Cage and Messiaen.

I think the Schubert and Scriabin would definitely fit. The Bertini is simply too impractical with the likes of the others there (Chopin, Liszt, etc). The Janáček might have a chance. As for the Ligeti, Cage, and Messiaen, I agree with indutrial in that it definitely deserves it's place in the standard repertoire. I believe those three composers are among the most influential in the past 50 years, just as Liszt, Chopin, and Brahms were over 150 years ago, so why not include them? They fulfill many techniques that are not covered in the other repertoire, especially the Ligeti and Messiaen etudes. Are they too modern for you now?

[amelialw]

this is my list

J.S Bach
- a few pieces from Anna Magdelena
- a few P+F's
- a few concert pieces

Beethoven
- sonatinas
- a few sonatas
- a few of his other pieces

Haydn
- a few sonatas

Mozart
- a few sonatas
- a few little pieces( Gigues, Minuets, Allegros etc.)

Chopin
- a few of these (Etudes, Waltzes, Ballades, Polonaises etc.)

Debussy
- a few pieces ( Children's Corner, Claire de lune, Reverie etc.)

Rachmaninoff
- 1 or 2 preludes

the list could go on and on, can't really think right now.

[desordre]

Dear m1469:
 I think that's a good point: what is the fundamental repertoire? By the way, that's a question I'm concerned with as well in the last years. Here are some conclusions, that maybe can help. (Yeap: it's a huge amount of repertoire, but who's in a hurry? It would take about eight years to complete, I guess.)
 Notice that although I believe in playing Bach, Chopin, Russians, I think that we can reduce a bit the number of pieces of those composers to include another ones. For instance, in Italy they play something as 20 or more preludes and fugues in three years (from 6th to 8th); there is a Master Degree in USA that requires 25 pieces by Chopin to the final audition. In spite the fact I think that both (and other ones) could be successful, I believe in a broader musical formation, and in a broader musical life.
 Well, I'm almost off topic...  Here's the list:
 
Early Music:
 - some dances and one contrapuntal piece (fantasia, etc) by the english virginalists (Byrd in particular);
 - a suite (or selections of it) by two contrasting 17th century composers, e.g., a german (Froberger) and a french (Jacquet de la Guerre);
 - a contrapuntal piece (fugue) by Buxtehude;
 - one piece by Frescobaldi;
 - a piece by Telemann;
 - a suite by Handel;
 - Bach: a pair (or more) of inventions, a pair (or more) of sinfonias, a french suite, an english suite, at least four P&F (two of each volume). That's not usual, but a larger work (such as a toccata) would fit nicely;
 - Scarlatti, D.: a pair of sonatas;

Classical Music:
- Haydn: ten sonata movements, with at least two complete sets;
- Mozart: ten sonata movements, with at least two complete sets; one or two sets of variations; one large work (Adagio, Fantasia);
- Beethoven: 15 or more sonata movements, with at least three complete sets; some bagatelles; one set of variations;
- Schubert: two sonata movements; some small dances; one impromptu.
- at least one sonata movement and a character piece by one of the "lesser" composers: Clementi, Hummel, Czerny, etc.

Romantic Music:
- Chopin: a mazurka, a valse, a nocturne, a polonaise, a pair of preludes, an etude;
- Schumann: a selection of one of his cycles (opus 12, for instance);
- Mendelssohn, Felix: a pair of Lieder ohne Worte;
- Liszt: a consolation, selections of his cycles (Anees, Harmonies), individual works (Nuages Gris, Bagatelle sans tonalite);
- Brahms: selections of his Klavierstucke; one rhapsody or a ballade (or both);
- some pieces by another composers, such as Field, Clara Schumann, Fanny Mendelssohn, Bennett, Thalberg, Rubinstein, Gottschalk, Alkan. Well, the list is endless, and probably Thalbergmad has better suggestions than mine;

Late 19th/Early 20th century Music:
- Debussy: selections of (or eventually a complete) suite; a pair of preludes; one early work (Reverie);
- Ravel: Sonatine is the standard, probably because the rest (Miroirs, Gaspard, etc) is too difficult to think about;
- one or more pieces by other french composer: Faure, Honegger (I know he's not french), Milhaud, Poulenc, Satie, etc;
- Prokofiev: selections of his pieces; one sonata movement;
- Rachmaninoff: a pair of preludes;
- Scriabin: use your imagination...preludes, etudes, impromptus?
- Shostakovich: a pair of preludes; one prelude and fugue;
- Tchaikovsky: one piece of the Seasons;
- the russian repertoire of the period is huge, and important, and cool: Glazunov, Kabalevsky, Medtner, Mussorgsky, Stravinsky;
- Schoenberg's opus 19 is a must, but it's possible to consider something else (opus 11, 23 or 25);
- Hindemith: an interlude and fugue of his Ludus Tonalis;
- Bartok: selections of Mikrokosmos; other pieces (Sketches, Bagatelles, movements of the suites);
- at least a work by Janacek, Martinu, Smetana, Suk, or Szymanowky;
- Grieg: selections of his Lyrische Stucke;
- at least a work by Castelnuovo-Tedesco, Casella, Busoni, or Dallapiccola;
- at least a work by Albeniz, Granados, Falla, Turina, Mompou;
- at least a work by Cowell, or Barber, or MacDowell;
- at least a work by Villa Lobos, Camargo Guarnieri, Ginastera;


 The late 20th/early 21st century have so many choices, and so few standards, that it is probably a matter of taste, chance, and choice. Some ideas:

Berio's Encores
Boulez' Notations
Messiaen's Vingt Regards
Britten's Night Piece
Bennett's Studies
Stockhausen's Klavierstucke
Lachenmann's Ein Kinderspiel
Rautavaara's Preludes opus 7
Gubaidulina's Musical Toys
Cage's Sonatas and Interludes
Babbitt's Semi-simple Variations
Marlos Nobre's Ciclos Nordestinos


Me and my lists...anyway, hope it helps.
Best wishes!

[desordre]

 Of course, you can simplify as Dan pointed out: Bach, Beethoven, Brahms. Add a bunch Chopin and loads of Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, and Scriabin, and you're OK.

 It reminds me something I read first from Bernhard, I think (but it was already a quote by him, I'm not sure): "If you master all Bach's Preludes and Fugues, all Beethoven's Sonatas, and all Chopin's Etudes, you will be able to play anything you like". Considering the people who have done a substantial part of that, it's probably true.

 Best!
 

[desordre]

sorabji - opus clavicembalisticum
ligeti - etudes
(...)

Hey, Fnork!
 m1469 is asking about intermediate to early advanced repertory, she didn't ask for introductory material for her children.
 

[jakev2.0]

Very good music for people who are not beginners can be found by Heller, Kirchner and Reinecke, all disciples of Schumann. Cycles of pieces like Chopin's Preludes are really full of rather frightening stuff I'm afraid.

The original poster asked about music we think pianists should be familiar with.  Why forgo cornerstones of the repertoire (Chopin Op. 28) in favor of inferior music?  This preference for the masterpieces of the repertoire assumes sufficient skill, intelligence, and dedication to do the music justice.

I know you're a talented musician, so am naturally curious about your interesting suggestion.

[indutrial]

All pieces aside, I think a lot of students would benefit from taking a serious look into the pedagogy of Nadia Boulanger, who was an incredibly important figure in the development of tons of great 20th century composers and a staunch advocate of teaching students to not only value intensive discipline, but to also enjoy what they were doing as composers and players.

Besides that, I think that any "meat and potatoes" repertoire should also include numerous non-piano milestones, ranging from Bach's violin and cello pieces to Bartok's six quartets and orchestral works like Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

I didn't say that Cage should be included in the repertoire, but any pianist should at least look into works like the Sonatas and Interludes for prepared piano. Ligeti's work is a touch more in line with a continuation of techniques (both with reading and performing). Perhaps even something like Sorabji's 100 etudes (not all of them obviously) would be an appropriate thing to include down the road, since it could certainly help to improve one's playing and may very well open a few doors in terms of musical thought.

[lohshuhan]

Baroque :

JS Bach -

Selected pieces from Anna Magdalena Buchlein
30 Inventions/sinfonias
Selected P's and F's

Scarlatti - Selected Sonatas

Classical :

Clementi - Selected Sonatinas (?)

Hadyn -   Selected Sonatas

Liszt - Selected pieces

Mozart - Selected Sonatas

Romantic

Beethoven - Selected pieces

Chopin -

Selected Preludes
Selected pieces

Schumann - 

Kinderscenen - Selections from
Album for the Young - Selections ?

Impressionistic

Debussy -   Children's corner - Selected pieces

Ravel - Selected pieces

20th C.

Bartok - selected pieces
Shostakovich - selected pieces



Okay, I can think about reasons for all of these but I won't write them in just yet. 

i'm curious about why you put liszt in the classical section. 

[swim4ever_22]

I am by no means an authority when it comes to this, as my repertoire can plainly tell you, but I still know quite a bit about music, despite my lack in pieces. To me, the meat and potatoes would be something like this:

For the Beginner:

Baroque[/u]

Bach

The Notebook for Anna Magdalena
Some Selected Preludes

Scarlatti

A couple of the easier Sonatas


Classical[/u]

Clementi

Sonatinas

Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven

Introductory works, such as Ecosaisses, Minuets, German Dances


Romantic[/u]

Burgmuller

Op. 100

Chopin

Easier Preludes

Schumann & Tchaikovsky

Albums for the Young



For the Intermediate


Baroque[/u]

Bach

The Inventions and Sinfonias
Start introducing easier works of the WTC, continually progress through both volumes

Scarlatti

A few more selected Sonatas

Classical[/u]

Clementi

A few more Sonatinas

Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven

Easier Sonatas, begin to progress through them in difficulty


Romantic[/u]


Chopin

Preludes, Selected Nocturnes, Waltzes, Mazurkas

Schumann

More Album for the Young
Kinderscenen
Select Pieces

Tchaikovsky

More Album for the Young
The Seasons

Impressionistic[/b]

Debussy

Children's Corner

Contemporary[/b]

It's completely arbitrary.