I use my hands a lot doing physical work, will it affect the way I play the pian

[dora96]

Hello there,

Just question for piano player. I use my hands a lot doing physical work such as housework, cleaning, moving heavy objects. gardening. I also like doing weight lifting, physical training at the Gym. I am just wondering would it affect the way I play the piano. Do you have any suggestion that pianist should look after their hands in proper way and even shoulder, the body?  Any exercise I can do to improve the sensitivities of my fingers. Thank you

[richard black]

In my (considerable) experience of doing physical work alternating with piano playing, I'd say the more the better. The only thing I've ever done that left any lasting damage to my hands was playing the piano - the nerve endings in my finger-tips are pretty well shot, which I suspect would be the case with many pianists. I can't prove it's due to playing the piano but all that pressure on the tips makes sense.

[general disarray]

The only thing I've ever done that left any lasting damage to my hands was playing the piano - the nerve endings in my finger-tips are pretty well shot, which I suspect would be the case with many pianists. I can't prove it's due to playing the piano but all that pressure on the tips makes sense.

Quite honestly, I've never heard this complaint from a pianist before.  Are you sure it may not be some correctable medical issue like poor circulation or a compressed nerve somewhere?

[alzado]

One thing I have noticed about playing the piano a lot is that it makes your hands very strong.  Surprisingly so.

For senior citizens, I understand that piano playing can do a lot to avert or delay arthritis in the hands also.

So if you wonder that your hard work is affecting your playing, turn that proposition around.

Perhaps your playing is giving you a better pair of hands for your work!

[thalbergmad]

I also like doing weight lifting, physical training at the Gym. I am just wondering would it affect the way I play the piano.

This only used to affect me if i went to the piano too soon after a heavy weights session. I needed a good 4 hours between gym and piano to play properly.

Thal

[jinfiesto]

doing hard work, I think the wrist tires before the rest of the hand does, And I think this is what makes it difficult to play after doing lots of work.

[richard black]

doing hard work, I think the wrist tires before the rest of the hand does,

Only if you're badly out of condition, in which case it's a sign that it's time to do something about it.

[dmc]

Whatever you do, just be careful not to do anything to excess and watch your mechanics.  I'm currently battling carpal tunnel syndrome for the first time and its not fun.       I lift weights as well and also work at a computer (my day job).  To wear a restrictive wrist brace and try scaling back using one's hands so it can ease up is a challenge.   Its also frustrating as hell to not be able to play.  Just be concious of the demands you're placing on your hands & wrists.  If you can, try to avoid or minimize practicing on days when you lift (or at least put some substantial time between the two events).

[Bob]

I used to have my hands hurt a little bit from pushing myself on the piano and then riding a bike and gripping the handles.

In other similar situations, it seems to be the same.  Pushing myself on piano or not being able to recover from my piano practice, and then doing something else with my hands, like lifting furniture.  That usually does it.

Moving furniture is rare, but I found the bike riding thing was a problem.  I learned to ride without gripping the handle bars to tightly.

Build up your endurance by doing a little everyday.  Give the body time to rest and recover.  

Using the hands for heavy things means they're being pushed to develop strength.  On the piano, I think it's more about precise use, individualizing the muscles, and speed.  And endurance in doing those things.  But I see weight lifting working the muscles in a different direction than subtle piano moves.  

Not that they can't be combined.  I read a book at some famous pianist, female Bach player I forget the name, imprisioned in a Nazi concentration camp.  She had to do physical work with the hands.  She said she came back to her playing and found it actually helped.  That was doing physical work for a few years and then going back to piano though.  

One of the best things I know of is to back off, recover, but continue to do "easy" practice, whether that's just piano or a combination or piano and heavy lifting.

I try to avoid using my hands for lifting things, esp if I'm doing a performance soon.  I hate the feeling of the muscles being pushed and knowign I have a performance very soon.  I push the piano around with my hips.  I use my arms to push if I have to instead of my hands and fingers.  

For lifting furniture, I have seen some "as seen on tv" ad for extra straps that allow you to lift by putting the weight into your larger arm muscles.  You don't have to grip much with that.

Make sure the cleaning is done is a way to minimize impact.  Cleaning a bathroom tub by having a rag on a stick so you can lean your body weight into it help for me, instead of scrubbing with my hands and having to bend over.  Yuck.

[rc]

I do physical work with my hands every day, my whole upper body moves and lifts quite a bit.

There were a few things like cuts, or dry cracked hands, that I've got under control.  Also in the earlier stages of learning my job I had to adjust the way I do things, when I began to feel odd stinging sensations in my elbow or wrist.  Because I've been mindful I've managed to avoid any real trouble for the past 5 years at this job...

Not sure if it's because of my job or because I'm not playing demanding enough repertoire, but I've never experienced tired arms at the piano.

[steinway13]

yes it will affect the way you play if you are using your hands instead of your arms. if you lift objects with your hands and not your whole arm also then you will start to make your hands bigger and thus making you  less affective on the piano

[danny elfboy]

No activity or movement pattern really injury the hands.
Neither playing piano nor gripping the handles of a bike, mountain climbing, lifting weights or typing.

What really causes the damage is "excessive tension".
All these activities are just the "context"
Grip with excessive tension and you cause damage, climb with excessive tension and you cause damage, lift weights with excessive tension and you cause damage type with excessive tension and you cause damage, push with excessive tension and you cause damage.

[thalbergmad]

Mr Elfboy makes an important point. It is not what we do with our hands that causes injury, it is how we do it.

Even in the "brute force" sport of powerlifting, more can be acheived without tension and at the same time, decreasing risk of injury.

I remember complaining to the owner of my favourite cycle shop that riding made my hands & arms hurt. He commented that he was not surprised, since i was clinging on for dear life which was not required and i was locking my elbows.

Thal

[dora96]

Thank you for sharing your experience about my post. I had 2 pregnancies  within three years. During my last pregnancy, I had suffered horrible carpel tunnel syndrome, despite this I still have to practice my piano. I thought it may not go away. after I had baby 2 months, it did ease off. But my troubles don't end, the kids need to be looked after. My son is 3 years and weigh about 19 kg, he is big boy and my baby 7 months old weigh about 8.8kg. Each day, I pick them up,  change the baby nappy, put them into the car, shopping, washing them, nursing them. The works I have done make my mussel really tired. My hands have tingling and burning feeling, less strength for gripping things. I feel like my joints and my wrists ache. Specially my shoulders are killing me sometimes in cold and rainny weather. The pinching feeling on my neck and top my shoulders have affected my playing the piano. I feel so frustrated with physical, plus emotionally and mentally constantly disrupting by the children. 

After my pregnancies, I want to keep fit and I am away from the house, I don't get depressed so much, I thought to go the Gym may help me to develop my strength back and flexibility. I know I need to take it easy, but looking after children I just have to do it and put them into first priority. I find that it is so hard for women to be pianist once we have a family. Practicing piano and family both are very demanding, it takes lots out of me. I don't know any of members of this forum feel the same way. I have very little help because my own family lives oversea, my husband is an artist as well, he needs to work all the times. How do you cope professional pianist out there, if they have to go to do performance, studying, or teaching.? How do you organize your time and how do you put everything separate from  physical, mental, emotional battle? Please share your experience   

[lostinidlewonder]

.....The works I have done make my muscles really tired. My hands have tingling and burning feeling, less strength for gripping things. I feel like my joints and my wrists ache. Specially my shoulders are killing me sometimes in cold and rainy weather. The pinching feeling on my neck and top my shoulders have affected my playing the piano...

If you are physically in pain and it is from your daily efforts looking after your children and etc you really should make changes your lifestyle. Of course your children will not be children forever and you can train them to help you clean the house eventually If you have chronic pain you should get therapy AND make changes to your daily routine.

I had one student in her mid 50's who started to get serious pain her left hand, so I suggested we cease lessons for a few months and she not play the piano at all with the left hand. I seriously believe that if you are in pain when using your tools for piano you simply should stop. It is foolish to carry on and push yourself through, Leon Fleisher is a good example of what can happen if you practice and practice even if it hurts.

When the body tells you to stop you should stop or you will simply do yourself worse. This is a sad reality, one of my older students had to quit piano because of physical pain, given she was 80 years old it wasn't too tragic, but still sad. There is absolutely nothing a physician or piano teacher can give you that will cure you (they can limit the pain but the pain will still be there and you are still grinding away at it not allowing it to heal), when your body says stop you must stop and help it recover or it will force you to stop eventually and perhaps permanently.

...... How do you cope professional pianist out there, if they have to go to do performance, studying, or teaching.? How do you organize your time and how do you put everything separate from  physical, mental, emotional battle? Please share your experience   

The truth is that many professional musicians are not organised at all and this does infact limit their progress in their career. Music is a discipline where if you aim for the stars, you will hit the moon, aim for the moon you hit the trees, aim for the trees you hit yourself in the foot. You have to always overextend yourself musically because you will always fall short of your expectations. This concept applies for great deal of things in our life not only music. So developing organisation in your music might indeed first start with how you organise your overall life.

[Bob]

Yes, a change of lifestyle if there are things not happening you want to have happen.  If you're putting in a reasonable effort and they don't happen, something more "critical" is going to have to change.

I try to keep work separate from other areas of my life.  Kind of like each area has its own time and its own version of me.  I think it helps to box things apart like that in order to keep frustration in one area from affecting others.  Like having work come home with you. 

That sort of works though.  If an area still need work, then something more major has to adjust.

I would think there must be a way to limit use of the hands and wrist more while still getting the other results you want.  Other weight lifters must go through the same thing.  Or a way to pick things up without using the hands much?  Still thinking....

[dora96]

I have another question about physical, when I was age of 15, I could practice the piano 6 to 7 hours a day 6 days a week. I felt great, I was passion about practicing the piano. Now I am in my late 30, I find that hard to sit that long.  after practicing my shoulder stiff, the joints in fingers and back ache. Sometimes but not that often,  get a headache. I get tired very easily. Despite, the physical work I have done outside my piano studies. The age can cheat, it certainly has diminishing affect on me. I am not that old, I feel it should be my prime time. I am mature enough   to understand more, and young enough to learn.  The high level piece like Beethoven moonlight sonata, Chopin fantastie, Mozart  I find that really exhausted to practice even play though it from start to end without losing control. 

I admire so much for Horowitz and Claudio Arrau, Brendle.

[Bob]

Ditto that.

Age can cheat.  Cheat you by making you do less.

Age can cheat.  Teenagers can get away with pushing their bodies more than adults. 

Watch out young ones.  Enjoy things while they're nice. 

[general disarray]

Ditto that.

Age can cheat.  Cheat you by making you do less.

Age can cheat.  Teenagers can get away with pushing their bodies more than adults. 

Watch out young ones.  Enjoy things while they're nice. 

I'm not so sure that at Dora's age it's "the aging process" that's getting to her.  Too soon for that.  My guess is that it's a decade of stress and tension that she's been unaware of as it insinuates itself into her muscles and tendons.

Time for meditation, Dora.  "Systems check" is long overdue.

[thalbergmad]

It is time for an M O T Dora.

[dora96]

Thank you for all your advise for my post. I am aware of my condition. I have some therapy from the hospital.   I think sometimes it is the reality of lifestyle that I have to organize. I feel like that I am running out time to study my piano. I have stopped seriously playing the piano for 10 years due to work, marriage, kids. I just got back studying since 15 months ago.  I supposed that I did over practice a bit. The only time I can be really concentrated and quiet during at night. When everyone is sleeping. I use digital piano with headphone. I don't know it is good or not, at least something is better than nothing. I hope I will get as fit as Horowitz I get to his age.

https://au.youtube.com/watch?v=J_n8_N9ijXw&feature=related   

[supernanny]

Hi Dora,

Here's another mom with young kids and I am at the other side of the fourties I am not a professional player, but I hope I can give you some idea's on how to tackle some of your problems.

First of all: you mention that your almost nine kilo seven month old needs to be carried, lifted and nursed. Check out other mothers how they do that: they use slings to carry their babies when they need to be carried a lot on some days. They use the sling even while nursing, which lefts the weight from your hands wrists and arms. Also, a good posture while feeding with proper support (harder with an older baby) should help relief carpal tunnel syndrome pains as a result of nursing. Please consult a lactation consultant to help you out with this: this works better that an occupational therapist unless it is someone who knows a thing or two about positioning an older nursling. She can also help you out with suggestion about using a baby sling and other ways to carry and lift your baby, if she is a good one. Knowing how to properly carry an infant car seat can make such a diference and most moms are carrying it in the wrong way, straining muscles and joints in the shoulder and arms.
A little warning: I do not play enough to get damage from playing alone, but i do play enough to get damage when my kids start hanging on my arms while playing or when my play get interrupted over and over again. This builds up tension quite fast, leading to soreness. Try to prevent your kids interrupting your play. Sometimes it works to do something with them for five minutes and that will give you ten minutes for yourself.

How to deal with these frustrations? Well, they will get older. In the mean time, try to barter your services. You can play so you may be able to teach piano to some one in your neighborhood (I wished I was that far in my capabilities) and in lieu this person or the parent, or maybe two or three, will look after your kids for a while, either in your house or elsewhere (go to the playground) while you practice. Even if you have just a few, undisturbed hours per week it will prevent you from going completely nuts. For the rest: try to make a plan for two, three, five minutes practice sessions that you can do while just sitting down at the piano right after or before some action (going outdoors, having dinner, after dinner, just before breakfast, figure out what works for you). I love to practice a scale a couple of times while my kids put on their shoes before we go out. I have to get faster though, since the kids gets handier tying their shoes themselves;)

Hope you get some new idea's from this. Hang on, it will pass, it will get easier every week. And hopefully your wrists and hands will get better as well.

Angie, pianolover and lactation consultant

[danny elfboy]

Dora do these experiments:

1a) Pick up a book with as much tension as possible stiffening all your arms muscles and hunching your shoulder. Put the book in the desk.

1b) Release all this tension and pick up the book to put it where it used to be

Can you see? You can obtain the same exact end without effort?
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2a) Do you have sight problems looking near you or at distance? Well observe an word or object you CAN'T see well. Focus on how bad your sight is and notice how what you're looking is getting blurred

2b) Close your eyes. Focus on a neuter color like blue or white and for a couple of minutes try to see only this color. Wait for all the strain to fade and open your eyes. Do you see better? Close them immediately again and focus on a neuter color, wait for all the strain to fade and open your eyes to look. Can you see even better? Keep doing this for a dozen of time until you can perfectly read what you couldn't read without eyeglasses or strain

Can you see? Less effort reverse whatever kind of refraction problem and you actually see better?
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3a) Stand confortably with feet at shoulder width. Close your eyes and focus on the sensation of balance.

3b) Slowly move all your weight so the right side so that all the weight of your body rest on your right leg. Feel the lack of balance and the asymettry of weight distribution. Now slowly move your weight to your left side so that your weight rests on the left leg. Again feel the compression of your ribcage, muscles, neck, nerves and the sense of asymmetry and inbalance. Now slowly move back to a centered position. Can you feel this time you were able to find a more centered and balanced position were compression from the weight of the head disappears. Keep doing this for 5 times until you feel completely balanced and non compressed.
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These experiments should show you something. Functional problems depend on strain.
Strain depends on our tendency to believe we required excessive tension to do things from reading to thinking from walking to picking objects. There's no reason why reading should cause you headache, lifting children should cause you backpain, playing piano should cause your hand pain, watching things should cause you sight problem. The reason why, age like going from 15 to 19, seems to cause worsening of weakness, pain, soreness, poor eyesight, migraines, fatigue and so on ... is because each year (and actually each day) more that your body is victim of the uneeded strain you force it to experience increases the chronicization of the pain and the tearing of the strained body part.

[gerry]

Just steer clear of the power tools (miter saws, chain saws, etc.)...oh, and watch out for the 5th metacarpal when you slug someone.

[dan101]

As mentioned already, physical work that strengthens your gripping muscles is a positive aspect.

[point of grace]

i play volleyball since im very young, and as i got a good technique to play imalso very careful taking care of my hands to play the piano.
i didnt have any problems yet...
it´s also kindda phsychological (i know i spelled the word wrongly!!)
it´s up to you

[pianodude90]

I don't think it harms your pianoplaying. Lifting weight's is just good, as long as the weight's not too heavy. If you you not use your arms to anything else than playing the piano, the muscles you're using when playing the piano will be overstressed because other muscles not are backing up the "pianomuscles". Trust me! I got strain injury because of that.