Richard Barrett's "Tract".

[ryguillian]

Richard Barrett's epic solo piano opus "Tract" is often listed as one of the hardest solo piano pieces ever written (and I believe Ian Pace cites it as the hardest), but does anybody actually like this piece? Anybody besides me (and Ian Pace, and Richard Barrett presumably), that is? I find that it's actually fairly straight-forward (at least the first movement): the "chant" at the beginning seems to be transformed and makes its reappearence throughout the piece. I'd go so far as to say it's one of my favorite 20th century piano pieces and definitely the darkest piece of solo piano music I've ever heard.

Best,

Ryan.

[ahinton]

I do not claim to know the piece intimately but such experience of it as I do have is enough to suggest that it is considerably less forbidding than its appearance on paper might lead some to believe. Unlike Michael Finnissy, for example, Richard is not a pianist and he has contributed far less to the intrument's repertoire than Michael has; I am not certain of the extent to which Richard's particular notational conventions and his ways of setting down his ideas for the pianist are effective and appropriate in terms of transforming the score into a performance, hence my suggestion that Tract sounds (at least to my ears) a good deal more approachable than it looks (to my eyes). I also think that it would be easier to assess if only more pianists played it and we could hear how each of them approaches it. Incidentally, I recently listened to a live performance by Sarah Nicolls of Richard's more recent piano piece Lost, which is shorter, less overtly complex and more approachable again than Tract.

I realise that this doesn't say all that much, but then I, too, am not a pianist and I'd be especially interested in any remarks that pianists make in this thread.

Best,

Alistair

[ryguillian]

I do not claim to know the piece intimately but such experience of it as I do have is enough to suggest that it is considerably less forbidding than its appearance on paper might lead some to believe. Unlike Michael Finnissy, for example, Richard is not a pianist and he has contributed far less to the intrument's repertoire than Michael has; I am not certain of the extent to which Richard's particular notational conventions and his ways of setting down his ideas for the pianist are effective and appropriate in terms of transforming the score into a performance, hence my suggestion that Tract sounds (at least to my ears) a good deal more approachable than it looks (to my eyes). I also think that it would be easier to assess if only more pianists played it and we could hear how each of them approaches it. Incidentally, I recently listened to a live performance by Sarah Nicolls of Richard's more recent piano piece Lost, which is shorter, less overtly complex and more approachable again than Tract.

I realise that this doesn't say all that much, but then I, too, am not a pianist and I'd be especially interested in any remarks that pianists make in this thread.

Best,

Alistair

While there seems to be a duality between the written score and the sonic realization thereof (insofar as I know of it from what I've played and what I've heard on Ian Pace's recording of the work), I would not consider Tract an example of augenmusik. That is, I think, as said in my first post, that Tract has some real musical value.

That said, I don't think I'd ever use the word "approachable" (for performer, esp.) re: this work: producing any sort of coherent music from the score is a definitely a non-trivial task and anybody who can do so without making the music sound like mud (although it does reference Beckett's "How It Is" quite a bit...) is achieving quite a thing. I think the notation that Barrertt uses is appropriate and if you listen closely there are often times when you can hear 4-5 separate stands of music going simultaneously at different tempi.

One point that I definitely agree with you on, though, Alistair, is that there needs to be more performances and recordings of this work.

Best,

Ryan.

[dnephi]

There have been some compilations made by members of this forum elsewhere on the net which have been far more intimidating.  I'm sure that someone (retro?  Pita?  John?) will be able and willing to supply you with them.

[ahinton]

While there seems to be a duality between the written score and the sonic realization thereof (insofar as I know of it from what I've played and what I've heard on Ian Pace's recording of the work), I would not consider Tract an example of augenmusik. That is, I think, as said in my first post, that Tract has some real musical value.

I did not suggest otherwise...

That said, I don't think I'd ever use the word "approachable" (for performer, esp.) re: this work: producing any sort of coherent music from the score is a definitely a non-trivial task and anybody who can do so without making the music sound like mud (although it does reference Beckett's "How It Is" quite a bit...) is achieving quite a thing.

My use of the term "approachable" was in the specific context of the listener rather than the performer, which was indeed the very point I sought to make; the piece is certainly "a non-trivial task" for any pianist that seeks to take it on.

I think the notation that Barrertt uses is appropriate and if you listen closely there are often times when you can hear 4-5 separate stands of music going simultaneously at different tempi.

I can hear that kind of thing too, but I still wonder whether at least some of what he has sought to achieve might have been possible by means of somewhat less complex and intricate notational procedures.

One point that I definitely agree with you on, though, Alistair, is that there needs to be more performances and recordings of this work.

I'm pleased that we agree on that, at least!

Best,

Alistair

[pies]

a

[pies]

a

[retrouvailles]

I still haven't given the work a second listen but I did get to look over the score.  In it, I found what is perhaps the lamest and most pretentious thing I've ever seen in a score: the stage directions/instructions for the pianist that appear at the very beginning.  Stupid, ridiculous, completely unnecssary, and just annoyingly lame.  Fuck you, Barrett.

I actually think that these theatrical directions accentuate many qualities within the piece, and they add to the visual impact that the audience would get. Of course, you cannot appreciate this in the recording. I especially love the ending direction. It reminds me sort of what Rzewski would do.

[pies]

a

[indutrial]

I still haven't given the work a second listen but I did get to look over the score.  In it, I found what is perhaps the lamest and most pretentious thing I've ever seen in a score: the stage directions/instructions for the pianist that appear at the very beginning.  Stupid, ridiculous, completely unnecssary, and just annoyingly lame.  Fuck you, Barrett.

Whoa, calm down! Have you ever seen Rzewski's The Road which has instructions like "GROAN - mouth closed; gutteral noises suggesting some domestic animal)", an occasional separate clef for foot-stomps, and instructions to yell "HAR!" with the footnote "like a drill sergeant barking orders!"

I'm fine with these kind of things being thrown atop what are already stunningly virtuostic and strongly musical pieces. I see a lot more pretentiousness in the note-less instruction-loaded avant-garbage written by John Cage or in insanely aleatoric nonsense like Philip Glass's 1+1 for amplified table-top (talk about a total piece of s**t). If you want to feel true smug-ness check out any of the top few videos here:

[ Invalid YouTube link ]+music&search=Search

Barrett and Rzewski can write whatever they want on their scores, since their music at least keeps one foot on the planet.

[pies]

a

[indutrial]

The Road is different since the words are part of the music; Rzewski himself describes it as "a novel for piano".  It's more of an act than a regular piece of music.  A Beckett quote in the middle of the score that has nothing to do with the music is close to 1+1 levels of douchebaggery.

At least the Beckett quote can easily be ignored during a performance or study of the piece. 1+1 is on the whole total compositional cockbarf that is about as close to total bullshit as Cage's 4'33 stands. Though...my vote for the worst piece of all time has to go to Cage's 600+ year-long organ piece, which sadly is going on right now and completely wasting a perfectly good room and organ that could be used for anything better than that. Barrett could have done far worse than a Beckett quote and I would still consider him a more restrained and tasteful individual than Cage or Glass usually represents.

[pies]

a

[indutrial]

The music makes up for it, I guess.

It definitely does. If his music was just another silly dadaist gimmick, I'm sure a serious player like Ian Pace wouldn't waste his time with it. I don't really mind when composers are "art fags" as long as they can compose. As soon as I have some $$$ I'm going to order Michael Finnissy's "History of Photography in Sound" which is thematically related to all kinds of modern literary works and other stuff. This is okay, though, since Finnissy has certainly proven his salt as a bad-ass piano composer. "Tracts" similarly earns Barrett the right to be a little self-indulgent, at least to me.

I wonder what you'd think of Christian Wolff's strange piece "Accompaniments" which he wrote for Rzewski to perform. It's quite bizarre but somewhat good amidst all the weird sh*t.
A blogger posted a rip of the OOP LP this is from:

https://closetcurios2.blogspot.com/2007/08/christian-wolff-american-contemporary.html

[ahinton]

But still, the score gives me the impression that Barrett is sort of a composer, but mostly an art-fag and probably a huge douche in real life.  The music makes up for it, I guess.

Since you evidently do not know Richard Barrett personally (I don't know him either, in the sense of having met him, although we have corresponded extensively and I have read various things that he has written about performing traditions in Bach, early music, jazz and all manner of things of which quite a few are by no means obviously connected directly with his activities as a composer), I do not think that it would be a bad idea for you to keep your tasteless guesswork about him to yourself and confine any remarks you may wish to make to the thread topic - a piece which, unlike its composer, one may presume that you DO know...

Thank you.

Best,

Alistair

[minor9th]

Stupid, ridiculous, completely unnecssary, and just annoyingly lame.  Fuck you, Barrett.

You certainly know how to endear yourself to other people...

[jpowell]

You certainly know how to endear yourself to other people...

Yes, I'd agree on this one!
I think that when one talks of a piece of such imagination, sheer hard work, allusion (notably late Beethoven and Scriabin, by the way) etc., it is probably not useful to resort to what appear to be rather shallow insults.

Now, I am not the world's greatest Barrett fan or anything even like that. I've had a number of run-ins (and subsequent makings-up, for the record) with Mr B over the years, and I played Tract at least twice, possibly three times or so. And I would not rush to dismiss the piece. It's not terribly pianistic in the traditional sense, but that's not a compositional problem - it's one for the performer to deal with. And I understand this is actually an important (rather than deficient) aspect of the work.

What on earth, while we're on the subject of opprobium, are:

a) an "art-fag"; and (if you're just on some homophobic binge, then grow up)
b) a "douche" (OK - I thought the latter was what one got instead of "bain" if one paid slightly less in a French hotel, and is also a term for what is probably a pretty inefficient - however potentially entertaining for the onlooker - method of contraception; I don't think Richard falls into either of these categories, come to think of it)?

Oh, and Ryan, in answer to your pertinent question: I don't know if Tract is a kind of piece I could really get to like, but I'm fascinated by it, sometimes repelled by it, drawn in by its richness, pissed off by the almost continual darkness; you name it - a piece like this can (and evidently, does) ellicit at least as many responses as there are people who come into contact with it.

Thanks for reading my drivel again folks!

[ahinton]

Yes, I'd agree on this one!
I think that when one talks of a piece of such imagination, sheer hard work, allusion (notably late Beethoven and Scriabin, by the way) etc., it is probably not useful to resort to what appear to be rather shallow insults.

Now, I am not the world's greatest Barrett fan or anything even like that. I've had a number of run-ins (and subsequent makings-up, for the record) with Mr B over the years, and I played Tract at least twice, possibly three times or so. And I would not rush to dismiss the piece. It's not terribly pianistic in the traditional sense, but that's not a compositional problem - it's one for the performer to deal with. And I understand this is actually an important (rather than deficient) aspect of the work.

What on earth, while we're on the subject of opprobium, are:

a) an "art-fag"; and (if you're just on some homophobic binge, then grow up)
b) a "douche" (OK - I thought the latter was what one got instead of "bain" if one paid slightly less in a French hotel, and is also a term for what is probably a pretty inefficient - however potentially entertaining for the onlooker - method of contraception; I don't think Richard falls into either of these categories, come to think of it)?

Oh, and Ryan, in answer to your pertinent question: I don't know if Tract is a kind of piece I could really get to like, but I'm fascinated by it, sometimes repelled by it, drawn in by its richness, pissed off by the almost continual darkness; you name it - a piece like this can (and evidently, does) ellicit at least as many responses as there are people who come into contact with it.

Thanks for reading my drivel again folks!

Drivel? What drivel? That's the most comprehensive good sense that has been written on the subject here - for which many thanks!

Best,

Alistair

[pies]

a

[ahinton]

Well, while I do think the notes and whatnot are annoying, the comments about Barrett himself were meant to be facetious.  Obviously I've never met him and can't judge a person from a score.

"Well", they didn't come across that way - certainly not to me, at any rate and, I suspect, not to numerous others, either. I am pleased to note, however, that you do at least now admit to an inability - which, for what it may or may not be worth, I share - to judge anyone person from a score that he/she may have written...

Best,

Alistair

[ctrastevere]

Mr. Powell, might I ask what it is like to practice/play a piece such as this? Quickly glancing through the score, I can't even begin to understand what direction the piece is going or how Barrett chose the notes/chords he wrote. And also, so many of the rhythms simply seem impossible to realize perfectly unless played by a computer.

I am astounded and impressed by all of your recordings, and was wondering how one practices music of this relentless complexity. How does one learn to play those rhythms, for instance? It just boggles my mind.

Unfortunately, I have yet to hear a recording of this piece, but if it's anything like Finnissy I'm pretty sure I'll like it.

[pies]

a

[minor9th]

I just bought this CD and hate it! Now, I generally like intensely modern pieces (Boulez, Xenakis, et al), but Barrett's piece leaves me cold. Sure, it must be obscenely difficult to play, but it just doesn't speak to me. Anyone want to buy the CD for $10? Played only once!

[jpowell]

I have a question for Powell as well.  Do you plan on adding any other live recordings to your website?  I'm sure many of us would like to hear more.

I just have. My own Sonata VI

[minor9th]

I just have. My own Sonata VI

Thank you for being so generous in sharing your wonderful performances, and now, composition!

[ryguillian]

https://anynoisry.ath.cx/tract.pdf

Whoops!

[Etude]

Those cross rhythms are totally reproducible by a human. 

[pies]

a

[ryguillian]

I listened to tract earlier today.  It is boring.  So boring it made me sad.  Barrett is boring.    Listen to Bussotti instead. 

k.

[pies]

a

[ryguillian]

Great shitpost.  I hope you get banned for it.

Doubtful.

[pies]

a

[ctrastevere]

I bought Pace's "Tracts" CD, and I enjoyed listening to Tract. It was a lot more interesting and a lot less monotonous/boring than I thought it was going to be. I highly recommend the CD, by the way -- under the hands of such an outstanding musician as Ian Pace, the music becomes a lot more accessible.

[retrouvailles]

I agree. Tract is a very good composition with a lot of musical variety. It might not be the most pianistic thing ever written, and it might be better if one sees it performed, but it is still a great piece to listen to.

pies, I don't think you are mature enough to listen to this kind of music if you make such comments in your posts. And btw, Bussotti and Barrett are in a totally different ballpark. Saying "Barrett is boring. Listen to Bussotti instead" is like saying "Mozart is boring. Listen to Brahms instead". It just doesn't make any sense.

[pies]

a

[indutrial]

I do not see how they are in different ballparks.  They're contemporaries.  Barrett is associated with the "New Complexity" movement while Bussotti is seen as an influence if not one of the fathers of the movement.  A good amount of Bussotti's work fits the typical description of the New Complexity style.  Both aren't pianists and therefore write very unpianistic stuff with crazy scores.

And this maturity sh*t is garbage.  I enjoy lots of 'sophisticated' and 'mature' stuff by Finnissy and Ferneyhough while not liking Tract.  Luckily I am 'mature' enough to recognize this as self-indulgent and pretentious trash.  It's like bad poetry in the form of music.

How could one argue that Barrett's work is self-indulgent but that Finnissy's and Ferneyhough's works are not. What's the barometer for 100%-subjective criticisms like the ones you're basing your discussion upon.

I'm sorry, but nothing in your diatribe about this work is convincing, and the fact that Bussotti's influenced that of Barrett's (the only thing you said about the two) says nothing to support your arguments. It's okay to not like a specific work, but you're starting to grind an axe here and it reminds me forcibly of some of the other users who've felt the need to smother us in the past with insufferably subjective pissing and moaning about Sorabji and Xenakis. This kind of sh*t only leads to one place. Another dead post about 20th century music!

[pies]

a

[indutrial]

I guess my diatribe was really senseless.  When I listen to Tract, my real reaction is this: it's a decent and interesting sounding piece but I eventually think of the Beckett quotes and stage directions and go  which spoils it.

My interaction with this piece began with listening to the Pace recording without any knowledge of the score, so you can understand my difference of opinion. If I had seen the score first, I might have reacted the same way that I did when I initially saw the score for Finnissy's English Country-Tunes, specifically the opening section (i.e. "What, are you f**king kidding?!?!"). Thankfully, I heard Pace's recording of Barrett's piece beforehand. I may come from a skewed point of view, because I'm not a pianist, so the whole pianistic side of it is a lot more meaningless to my listening point-of-view. From a more general musical perspective, there is certainly lots of fascinating stuff going on, though it can be pretty hard to follow at times.

[lontano]

I was searching the net today looking for a source of Barrett's "Tract" and one of the top links brought me here. Unless I missed it I didn't see any reference to where one may obtain this score. Can anyone give me a suggestion? Anyone know the publisher?

Thanks.

[djealnla]

I was searching the net today looking for a source of Barrett's "Tract" and one of the top links brought me here. Unless I missed it I didn't see any reference to where one may obtain this score. Can anyone give me a suggestion? Anyone know the publisher?

Thanks.

I found this:

https://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/sheet+music/classical+score/sheet+music-for-piano/UMPxx00167.html

Of course there could always be some cheaper source, but I'm too lazy to dig deeper right now.

[thalbergmad]

Since lontano lives in America he can order from Presser, being the American agent for UMP.

Horrific price. No wonder some people pirate these things.

https://www.presser.com/

Thal

[lontano]

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately I can't afford to pay over $100 for something like that. No wonder pianists don't like to build a library of contemporary works when the music is priced so high. I know that (at least in the States) it's all tax deductible but it's still a lot of money. I might try going back to Inter-Library Loans and see what luck I have there...

L.

[pies]

A link to a scan of the score was posted early on in this thread, but it's dead now.  Ask for it on GFF.  Someone there should have the PDF.

[lontano]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is GFF?

[pies]

gamingforce.org, Concert Hall/Musician's Library subforum.

Modern scores are priced ridiculously.  I couldn't find a Radulescu piano sonata score on WorldCat, so I got in touch with Radulescu's publisher.  The price for a copy of a score to a single sonata was $130 + $70 for shipping.  what.

[lontano]

gamingforce.org, Concert Hall/Musician's Library subforum.

Modern scores are priced ridiculously.  I couldn't find a Radulescu piano sonata score on WorldCat, so I got in touch with Radulescu's publisher.  The price for a copy of a score to a single sonata was $130 + $70 for shipping.  what.

I suppose we all have our individual horror stories along these lines. I started collecting the entire works of Scriabin beginning in the mid '70's. Back then much of it was (as far as I knew) only available from expensive Ed. Peters (or other European publishers). Over about 10 years I must have spent several hundred dollars for something I can just download and print legally for free (and there are other, similar examples). A couple of years ago I tried to purchase Erik Chisholm's Sonata in A. It turned out it was not in print, and to buy it required me to choose among several possible sets of movements available from the Chisholm Society, any set costing over $100. No thanks. It's great music but I doubt I'll ever see it in print. One purchase turned out to be worthwhile. Again, back in the mid-'70's I bought several Messiaen scores including "Vingt regards sur l'ínfant Jesus". A few years later I happened to meet Messiaen and his wife Yvonne Loriod on 2 occasions and obtained personalized autographs from both of them. I felt that warranted having the score hard-bound and remains one of my personal treasures.

L. 

[djealnla]

Modern scores are priced ridiculously.  I couldn't find a Radulescu piano sonata score on WorldCat, so I got in touch with Radulescu's publisher.  The price for a copy of a score to a single sonata was $130 + $70 for shipping.

And there was me thinking that Sorabji's sheet music is overpriced.

How long is/was the score of that particular piece?

[john11inc]

And there was me thinking that Sorabji's sheet music is overpriced.

Contemporary solo repertoire (I single out solo [and smaller chamber works, I'll add] because revenue is not made from loaning out the scores, but from purchases) is generally expensive for a reason.  In the majority of cases, if the work had to be typeset then the publisher will not make a profit on the work for a very long time, or, just as likely, never.  The only way for the publisher to do so is to price the works high.  Volume of orders will be low, so the price must be high.  It does not cost any less to print a work by Ferneyhough than it does to print a work by Beethoven: same paper, same ink, same people to pay.  The issue is with order volume.  Superficially, it may appear as though the pricing is due to the fact that contemporary works are not in the public domain and the publishing rights are held by only one publisher, but such thinking is barely "thinking" in the first place.  Other than the woefully small cost involved with paying royalties, the only reason that the scores are more expensive, when one is speaking of truly "contemporary" music, is the small volume.  If there is little demand, the notion that competition drives up the prices doesn't really make any sense.  Contemporary music is as expensive as it is because it has to be.  Otherwise it would be impossible to publish it in the first place.  Schott, for instance, publishes a large amount of contemporary scores and takes willing losses on them - not because of the price, but because it's an unfortunate fact that one will typically not make one's money back unless the composer is one of the very, very few who can get his scores moved; not the case for most that we are speaking of - that are curbed by their other publishing activities, as a humanitarian act.  Most companies cannot do this.  There is no alternative other than not publishing them in the first place.  I think it's obvious which is preferred.

@ pies: Regarding Radulescu's scores in particular (given that I know a couple of people who run his estate and have bought a number of his scores), unless there is a pressing need for the score, I would hold off for a year or two, as his music is in the process of being sold to established publishers at this very moment.  When the piano sonata you want will be available is anyone's guess, but you'd probably be better off waiting; if the piece isn't worth $200 dollars to you, then it doesn't sound like it's all that pressing.

How long is/was the score of that particular piece?

Radulescu wrote six (and a half) sonatas for solo piano.

[djealnla]

Radulescu wrote six (and a half) sonatas for solo piano.

I know that; I was just interested in the amount of pages that "pies" wanted to buy, to make some comparatively meaningful comparison with Alistair's prices.

Do you have any idea which publishers may be selling his scores in the near future?

[john11inc]

I don't remember.  A French publisher is all that I can remember.  It was my understanding the the huge majority of his works will go to them.  Feel free to ask the estate.