Which of the great composers would win in a street fight?

[schubertiad]

Discuss.

[dnephi]

The Dutch

[allthumbs]

The Dutch

Not a composer.

Chopin when pronounced phonetically.

[gerry]

Brahms vs. Scarlatti - sumo style.

[Kassaa]

Beethoven looked like he could give someone a punch .

[thierry13]

Liszt definitely.

[rachfan]

I once read that Prokofiev was pretty tough.

[shortyshort]

Beethoven looked like he could give someone a punch .

Seconded. 

He always looked a bit of a nutter. 

[etudes]

Rachmaninov
and Cziffra 

[thalbergmad]

Possibly Rossini if he could get close enough to sit on his opponent.

Thal

[quantum]

Salieri - after all he is suspect to ol' Wolfgang ...... 

[arensky]

Bach.

[schubertiad]

i think Rachmaninov has been overlooked here. At about 18 feet tall he surely would have given most composers a good beating. Although if his jab couldn't keep Beethoven at range then I think the sheer fury of the German may cause him some problems.

[imchopin]

i think Rachmaninov has been overlooked here. At about 18 feet tall he surely would have given most composers a good beating. Although if his jab couldn't keep Beethoven at range then I think the sheer fury of the German may cause him some problems.

Haha!  I am with you on this.  Rachmaninov VS. Beethoven ... The Rach surely had the tall confident mobster look going for him. However, I think the Rach would probably move too slow.  German wrath is fierce. Good old Ludwig van was a short man, but he had a stout build with broad shoulders.  He would be like a little Muhammad Ali, and he would run in circles around The Rach and treat him just like he treated his pianos, as his own personal punching bag.  The Rach was too easy-going to fiercely lose his temper, but Beethoven had a madness in him that needed released.  If a fair fight could be secured, I would bet money on Beethoven, and all those people voting for the Big and Dangerous Rachmaninov would be paying me some heavy fines.

[thalberg]

I think Bartok......if his fighting style is anything like his music.

[gerryjay]

I think Bartok......if his fighting style is anything like his music.

according to your theory, cowell deserves a mention!

[rachfan]

I'll still stick with Prokofiev as the ultimate bruiser, but since Rachmaninoff has been mentioned, I grant this much: Where he could stretch his hand to an interval of a 12th, he could likely do a  choke-hold single-handedly!

[Bob]

Finally an important topic...

Which was the one that got so fat he could barely reach the keyboard?  Was the Haydn or Handel.  That would have to be taken into account.

I don't think it would be Mozart of Chopin.  Too frail.

Now Hindemith.  I think he's got that bulldog element about him that might give him the edge.

Mousorgsky.  If he's drunk, he's not going to feel the punches and could go on and on.  That's not something to take lightly.

Then there might be some unknown asian composer.  Ninja-like.

The early Greeks.  Stones and things.

And don't forget the monks.  You never know how much training they might have being isolated like that.

I still keep thinking Beethoven would pretty tough though.  He'd have that inner drive, the spirit to go on.

(Bob is cracking up.)

[thalbergmad]

Which was the one that got so fat he could barely reach the keyboard?  Was the Haydn or Handel.  

Scarlatti or Dussek i would have thought old chap.

Thal

[ahinton]

Scarlatti or Dussek i would have thought old chap.

Thal

I was somehow anticipating that you might suggest that Sorabji would do so (in the profoundly unlikely assumption that he'd ever get within light-years of one in the first place) on the basis of the sheer volume of notes that he'd throw into the arena - but you've not yet done that, so...

Best,

Alistair

[tompilk]

Scarlatti or Dussek i would have thought old chap.

Thal

is the picture of scarlatti (domenico i'm presuming) on wiki a bit a biased then? He doesn't look particularly rotund...

[communist]

Rachmaninoff and Korsakov

[thalbergmad]

I was somehow anticipating that you might suggest that Sorabji would do so

I would not suggest such a thing, but perhaps Mr Finnissy would do well in a street fight.

If he bought along one of his recordings, any opponent would run off.

Thal

[gerry]

is the picture of scarlatti (domenico i'm presuming) on wiki a bit a biased then? He doesn't look particularly rotund...

There is an anecdote that Scarlatti ceased writing for crossed hands in his later life because he got so fat he couldn't do it - but a chronological listing of his works reveals that indeed enough of his later sonatas do contain this attribute as to relegate this tale to the realm of myth. Also, the few extant portraits including him do not show him to be overly corpulent.

[rachfan]

Hmmm... I always confuse Rimsky-Korsakov with Ripsky-Corsettsoff. 

[gerryjay]

Then there might be some unknown asian composer.  Ninja-like.

although he is far from unknown, i think takemitsu might be this ninja warrior. notice the fist, and the infinite-ending look:

[gerry]

Hmmm... I always confuse Rimsky-Korsakov with Ripsky-Corsettsoff. 

Of all the Russians, I prefer Katchytune

[gerryjay]

(sometimes my memory goes to some sunny place and left me on my own...  )

i remember that we have a very serious candidate, perhaps the only one (or one of the few) with actual experience: carlo gesualdo!

[gerryjay]

Of all the Russians, I prefer Katchytune

[gerry]

(sometimes my memory goes to some sunny place and left me on my own...  )

i remember that we have a very serious candidate, perhaps the only one (or one of the few) with actual experience: carlo gesualdo!

Good call Jay! Fascinating character ol' Carlo.

[Bob]

I bet John Cage would say he was fighting while he just stands there.

Schoenberg and the others would be careful to fight with specific moves and never repeat them in the same order.  They would try fighitng upside down or fighting backwards somehow, possibly declaring a winner before the fight even starts.

Ives would participate in several fights at once.  The different fights would take place in different styles.


Several other unknown composers would watch the well known composers and copy their moves. 


You'd have to watch out for composers after the 1830's.  They use more brass.

Commerical composers probably wouldn't fight unless it was part of their composer's union contract.

Some poor, unknown, broke composers would fight "just for the experience."

[gerryjay]

Schoenberg and the others would be careful to fight with specific moves and never repeat them in the same order.  They would try fighting upside down or fighting backwards somehow, possibly declaring a winner before the fight even starts.

that just make my day!
thanks, bob!

[communist]

no actually Rachmaninoff and Scott Joplin cause of there height and skin color     

[Bob]

Schoenberg and his second Vienesse "posse" would also be able to hit in in sever unexpected place, seeming random, but actually very controlled.  They meet their match when they fight against composers who are really just throwing random punches... although some of them have to throw dice to see what punches they should throw while other consult astrological charts.

Some composers would make up their own style of fighting, or even redefine what a "fight" actually is.  "Look at me!  I'm fighting with my elbows in a non-traditional manner!  You didn't think that was even possible did you?  Now I'm using my fists, but I'm not 'hitting' with them."

Some composers will invite the audience to directly engage them in combat rather than just fighting their opponent.

[communist]

t\what about the shorter guys like Scriabin and Ravel there short enough to consistently hit them in the balls without making them an open target but on the other hand the rach could step on them. 

[Bob]

I can't see Debussy or Ravel getting into a fight.  Debussy would be off lounging on a hill on a hot summer day.  I'm not sure what Ravel would be doing.  Maybe if Ravel fought, it wouldn't be an easy fight.  His lowest level of fighting would still be pretty tricky.

Scriabin would be off in the middle east enjoying himself in a temple dedicated to himself, his music, his color-light show.  He'd be too busy and into himself to fight.


Now Wagner.  I could see Wagner being very intimidating.  Just one look.  I'd like to see Wagner go up against Beethoven.  That might be an even match.  Imagine that.

Mahler put up a fight, get stabbed in the heart, but continue to fight even though it's painfully obvious he's going to die.  There would be a lot of suffering and it would a take a long time, but he would die in the end.  Angels would come down and Mahler himself would have predicted that he'd lose the fight.  Even with the sweet release of death, there would still be a lingering doubt about everything and the world.  Those present at the fight would saw it was long and drawn out and just a bunch of motion, but later "fight observers" would find significant meaning in it all.

Bernstein would really get into his fighting and enjoy himself.  Any watching watching or even the opponent would enjoy the show.

Bruckner would drag the fight out.  It would very long and would invoke God a lot.

Bach would work very hard at his fighting.  He would travel great distances on foot just to fight.  His fighting would appear to be simple but have a lot of thought behind it.  There would be hidden meanings behind some of his moves.  And somehow, he'd manage to have a few more kids during the fight.  The kids would also join in during the fight because they like to things as a family.

I think Liszt would kick ass.  He put up a good show and would have a lot of technical skills.  People would argue whether he really had any heart or spirit in his fighting though and that it's all just for show.  But I don't think many would defeat Liszt.  If it's the old Liszt, he might give you last rights or pray for you after he knocks he out. 

Bartok would study the fighting style of the country folk and then bring that into the city.

Grainger would actually record fighting among the country folk.  You'd have to watch Grainger though because he might bring whips and chains to the fight.  If he ever invites you over to his house for a special fighting session with some of his friend, be vary wary, unless you're into that sort of thing.

Schumann.  I don't about him.  He would probably break a finger during the fight though, I know that.  He'd be very rhythmic about his fighting.  Clara would probably have to step in to do his fighting.

Brahms would fight in a style similar to Beethoven but add his own things.  It might take him twenty years to actually get around to fighting you.  You'd have to be careful with Brahms though.  He might steal your girlfriend during the fight.  Unless he actually ended up fighting your girlfriend.    Brahms would probably always fight by himself.  He wouldn't have a group of close friends around to cheer for him.

Gershwin would be old school, roll-up-your-sleeves, backstreet alley fighting.

Copland would be down and dirty, western style fighting.  He might fling sand in your eyes.

Schubert would lose.  You wouldn't even have thought he was in a fight.  There was no one there for Schubert to fight.  Some little kid would tell you over and over that Schubert was going to lose, but you wouldn't take him seriously until it was too late and he had already lost.

I can't see Mozart being much of a fighter.  He would travel around a lot though and his father would be his coach.  Mozart would train with his sister, although his sister would not actually fight much in public.  He would fight young.  People would be amazed to see such a young toddler out fighting.  He might even bring cymbals into the fight because he'd seen the Turks do that.  A Jannisary band would march out before the fight.  Mozart would die in the ring though and people say it was Salieri would defeated him.  After the fight, no one would be able to find Mozart's body.  Mozart would attempt to get paid to fight but wouldn't be very successful.

Beethoven would get paid to fight and would earn a living off it and join the ranks of the rich and famous.  Say what you want to Beethoven during the fight though.  He would never respond.  If you got pinned and in an headlock, he might put his ear right up your face so he could hear you screaming. 

Handel would be killed during the fight.  He'd get paid to fight though.  People would pass around his head for centuries.

Lully would punch himself during the fight and eventually from his self-inflicted injury.

Benjamin Brittain and Edward Elgar would fight according to the Queen's rules.  Brittain would explain each type and demonstrate for the children in the audience.  Elgar would shout out letters that few people knew true meaning of during the fight.  Even later people would still not know what the heck he was talking about.  Elgar would not be someone to invite to graduation cermony as he'd try to engage the graduates in a fight.  Most members of the audience wouldn't realize a fight was actually going on during the graduation until halfway through the fight.

Kent Kennan and Walter Piston would be around after the fight to explain what all the moves were and what they meant to anyone who cared to go that in depth into things.  They might bring up ideas from Fux but then some people would think they weren't talking about fighting at all anymore at that point. 

Most people wouldn't care to see composers fight though.  They would prefer to Britanny Spears and Madonna fight instead.  Those two would not actually be fighting themselves and rather would mime fighting while drinking softdrinks products especially apparent in certain places druing the fight.  Any video of the their fighting would have the latest technical innovations applied to it and it would appear flawless.  While people would pay great amounts of money to see those two fight live, a huge amount of people would illegally download copies of their fight over the internet.  Spears would carry her baby around during the fight (head shaved of course for the fight) and would be heavily critized for doing that, while Madonna would be lauded as paving the way for women to break into fighting more.  Madonna would have an entourage of fit men dressed in leather supporting her.  A lot of men would watch the fight, not really caring who won or lost.

John Williams would be very cool to watch fight.  He would "the force," be able to use light sabers, be able to fly around on bicycle or a broomstick, and could fight like a cowboy but in the style of the late Romantic composers.  Whether it was a fight for good or evil, you know it would have a very cool style about it.


John Thompson would teach children to fight.  He would start by having them make a fist with five fingers.  Suzuki would teach children to fight by having it be part of a loving, nurturing family environment.  Suzuki's fighting children would be impressive but might have no clue what they heck they're doing.  They're just imitating what they have seen.  Parent would have to present at each fight, sometimes demonstrating fighting techniques to the students.  If the children ever show signs of fatigue during the fight, such as yawning, then the fight immediately stops.  Children in the public schools would fight a lot but not at a very high level.  Most would not fight again after high school. 



Dang... This stuff sounds good, at least to me.  Like that book about the composers, I forget the title now.  I should publish this stuff.  Make money.


© 2008 Bob.  These thread postings.   Technically, I believe once I post this, it becomes copyrighted whether I actually submit official paperwork or not.  Or maybe I could just email this post to myself...

[gerry]

Brahms would probably keep canceling the fights until he felt he had perfected his pugilistic technique to his absolute satisfaction.

Philip Glass would be an easy TKO due to his predictably repetitive movements--on the other hand, he might win by lulling his opponents to sleep. The fight would, of course, be fought in a Tibetan venue.

[Bob]

Yes, Glass would be critized for always fighting the same way.  His opponent might not always be sure whether Glass was alive or dead.  If you've ever seen Glass fight live, then you know at periodica intervals he'll hit his opponent by leaning his entire upper body foward in an attack with his head.

[Bob]

Joan Tower would fight so violently, people would think it was a man.

[gerryjay]

 hey bob!

 first and foremost:  +  +  + 

 then, as i was reading your post, i thought: this guy must publish that! you´re the woody allen of this forum, and i´m your fan buddy! thanks for the laughs here!

[quantum]

Hanon would practice fight technique exercises for at least an hour in hopes of improving limb independence.  However, due to his mechanical approach he may have lost to someone with more sense of style and creative use of one's availble faculties, such as Chopin.

In some circumstances John Williams may need to pass the leitmotif to Patrick Doyle or Nicholas Hooper or other person.  In which the follower is expected to fight in similar style to Williams, and kind of leaves a watered down feeling of the original fight plan. 

Fight team Grout and Palisca have left their mark on many colleges, touring the world to spread their fight method.  The advent of the New Bob Edition, promises to reduce the number of pillows in fight classes with renewed hope and enthusiasm for learning about the great fight masters.

[mattgreenecomposer]

I dont know about composers but pianist wise Richter probably could have opened up a can of Woop ass in his prime.

[pianochick93]

Suzuki would teach children to fight by having it be part of a loving, nurturing family environment.  Suzuki's fighting children would be impressive but might have no clue what they heck they're doing.  They're just imitating what they have seen.  Parent would have to present at each fight, sometimes demonstrating fighting techniques to the students.  If the children ever show signs of fatigue during the fight, such as yawning, then the fight immediately stops.  Children in the public schools would fight a lot but not at a very high level.  Most would not fight again after high school. 

Haha, that is so true. When I was little I used to learn the Suzuki method! I couldn't remember anything at all 3 years later, because I never actually learnt it.

[rachfan]

Philip Glass would be knocked out at the beginning of the first round because he has a "glass jaw".  And after they revived him, he'd still have only minimal(ist) consciousness 

[quantum]

Philip Glass would be knocked out at the beginning of the first round because he has a "glass jaw".  And after they revived him, he'd still have only minimal(ist) conciousness 

K.O.'s must seem to go on repeatedly for a very looooooong time to him

[rachfan]

For sure!

[Bob]

Grout could just bring his book along.  Use it as a shield and swing it around at his opponent.  That is one meaty book.  I think it would be interesting to watch him fight like that.  Maybe the theory guys could use their books as weapons then.  The weaker ones would only have a masters thesis or brief doctoral dissertation with which to defend themselves.  Bet they wished they worked harder then!      "Poor guy," Grout would say, "You could of at least got yours bound with library cardboard stock... Now taste my hardback!"  Historians would use their Norton scores as padding.    If they fought in teams, you can bet they'd make sure the last one of their group would be the most able, so they'd have a strong ending.

The second Viennese "posse" would wear sunglasses and  have serial patterns of four tattooed on their knuckles and those patterns would also function as an aggregate of eight (I'm forgetting my theory terms! .   They would all wear matching leather jackets that say "The Matrix has you."  Don't even try to talk to them because they'll only confuse the heck out of you.

[rachfan]

Some additional thoughts:

Glatzounov is Russian for glasses off, so how the heck could he see an opponent?  A quick TKO for sure.

Gliere would be disqualified for creating glare with the rhinestones on his boxing trunks.  (But he would still be the inspiration for Liberace.)

Humperdinck would be fixated about his date that night instead of the match.  KOed in the first minute of the first round for sure.

Lalo: After being KOed, Lalo's name would quickly become synonomous with lying on the
canvass.

Lully--a sure winner.  He would always sing the lully-bye over his opponents.

Offenbach would be a consistent champion--often back to meet his new challengers.

Paderewski is Polish for padded gloves.  Definitely a consistent winner.

Wohlfahrt--mostly hot air, no punch.  His everlastng quotation would be: "Hey, I coulda been a contenda!"

[gerryjay]

Lully--a sure winner.  He would always sing the lully-bye over his opponents.

not only a sure winner, but one of the most famous of all times.

it´s a known fact that brahms was one of the first musicians to get acquainted with baroque era. what very few people know is that his lullaby was composed as an hommage to lully and the latter´s practice (as rachfan reminded) of singing that melody every time he win a fight.

[gerryjay]

Lully would punch himself during the fight and eventually [died] from his self-inflicted injury.

btw, he punched himself because he was fighting against himself indeed.

after beating several and repeated times all fighters in, around, and invited to the royal court, the king requested a proper contender to the mighty lully. hence, it was arranged to he fight himself. the result was a draw and the famous self-inflicted injury.