Proper height of the bench

[danny elfboy]

We all know the rules more or less:

forearm parallel to the floor
elbow tip level with white keys top
hand in a natural relaxed position
wrist and hand back forming a straight line with the forearm
upper arm hanging freely from the shoulders
shoulders relaxed and neither raised or lowered

We also know that sitting at the proper height makes a world of a difference in one's playing and one's ability to prevent injuries. We've read it on anatomy and Thomas Mark book.

We also know that often the height that feel comfortable is not the right one and the right height feel uncomportable at the beginning because we're not suited to it.

So I wonder. What if someone has a problem finding the proper height because his torso is very long but his forearm are shorter than usual.

What kind of postural compromises would you expect such person to accept in order to sit properly even without meeting all the fundamental criteria of proper posture at the piano?

[faulty_damper]

I have to disagree with the 'rules' you mentioned.  Personally, my "proper height" changes depending on the piece I am playing.  If it is a fuga by JS Bach, my seat height is closer to the position you mention.  If it is a Liszt opera fantasy, I am noticeably higher.

It's not arbitrary, it's just easier to play.  I would not be able to play Liszt fantasies at the height I use to play a fuga and vice versa.  For such fantasies, I would be missing many notes or playing wrong once because I am straining my shoulders in a lifted  possition.  For fugas, I would be slouching to lower my torso height.

When finding the optimum range for seat height, most teachers just aren't knowledgeable about body proportions as they affect physical performance.  So most teachers are useless in this area.

Each person makes a compromise when choosing a seat height.  Are you choosing a higher seat for more leverage and thus power?  Or a lower one to allow better articulation around the keyboard?

I have noticed that some pianists choose seat heights visually, that is, they use their eyes and not their bodies to see if that height is correct.  To these pianists, they either don't want to be sitting too close because they can't see much of the keyboard span or sit too close because they see the keyboard better.  Coincidentally, they usually aren't very good pianists.

[thalberg]

Glenn Gould sat at 14 inches from the ground at all times.  Of course probably everyone here knows this.  I heard a story once of Gould endlessly adjusting the bench during a rehearsal with George Szell.  And the story goes that Szell got angry and said, "Mr. Gould!!  Would you like me to shave a quarter of an inch off your ass?"

[danny elfboy]

I have to disagree with the 'rules' you mentioned.  Personally, my "proper height" changes depending on the piece I am playing.  If it is a fuga by JS Bach, my seat height is closer to the position you mention.  If it is a Liszt opera fantasy, I am noticeably higher.

You do this in the middle of a long performance?
But how do you find the correct height when you have just few seconds and can't try or experiment with the height or looking yourself at a mirror?

[faulty_damper]

You do this in the middle of a long performance?
But how do you find the correct height when you have just few seconds and can't try or experiment with the height or looking yourself at a mirror?

I only have two hands so I can't spare one to adjust the bench on the fly!  Obviously not.  There is a compromise in everything, even within the same piece.

Appropriate height improves playing
In moments of extreme virtuosic show (e.g. octave passages, large leaps, fff chords) and then followed by serene poetic moments, I prioritize making the difficult parts as easy as possible.  This would mean that I would have to raise the seat height to play the difficult passages which would compromise my ability to play the lyrical ones.  I would have to adapt through practice.

When I learn such pieces (it's not just limited to operatic fantasies by Liszt, Busoni's Chaconne is another example) I practice the difficult parts first - the riskiest parts most prone to mistakes due to improper seat height.  Then afterwards, I practice the parts that, played by itself, do not require a high seating position.  This allows me to get a very good sense of the physical sensations that I would feel when playing.  When I adjust to these relatively subdued passages I also slouch a bit.  I am not slumping over but am in a position that I am very comfortable in.  When an explosion of hammers striking against strings must occur, I simply sit up thus allowing more leverage.  This is how I adjust my height and this is also one way of making seemingly difficult passage work relatively easy.

I do not ever raise my shoulders to adjust height.  Once the shoulders are raised, they are in a functionally useless position and the tension of the shoulders usually immobilizes my body and creates even more tension which manifests itself in numerous ways: wrong and missed notes, speeding up which releases tension and paradoxically creates tension, and wrong rhythm due to lack of control.  These things are very obviously heard and easily seen in a performance.

When I am practicing fugues or dance suites of JS Bach I lower the bench to the most comfortable position that allows as much freedom of my upper torso as necessary to play them.  I do not want to handicap myself by sitting too high.

Since the seat height adjustment is made relative to the height of the shoulders to the top of the keyboard, and the spine actually compresses throughout the day, my spine is longer in the morning than it is at night.  I usually to have to lower the seat in the morning and in the evening I raise it.  Such adjustments are a normal part of practice.

If I have to play on an unfamiliar piano and have to adjust the (unfamiliar) bench*, I make a couple of mental notes.  I consider the piece I am playing and will sit slightly higher or lower.  I make a rough visual check as I adjust the height and place my hand in the most comfortable position and adjust until it feels right.  This right feel is learned during practice.  Specifically, in pieces with octaves or loud chords, I will place my hand on the keyboard in the same manner as if I were actually playing such octaves/chords.  Then I fine tune.

This is the process I go through when determining the proper bench height.  If I do not do this, playing becomes noticeably more frustrating and sometimes I miss half the notes because I am ridiculously high for something I need to be sitting lower.  This process is something I learned on my own.  No teacher I've had, including famous concert artists, has ever taught me how to sit.  I think they were ignorant about such matters and left it up to their students to figure it out (but they usually don't).

Height Consequences
Proper seat height is obvious to the observer because an improper one has very noticeable consequences.  A proper one allows the performer to perform well.  And this next point is perhaps the most important for a performer: he looks comfortable.  Comfort gives the impression of command and authority.

Have you ever met a person who slouches and has his head hung low as he walks?  Perhaps you think he has low self-confidence or esteem.  If you adopted such a posture, strange men will approach you and demand your wallet and then beat you into pulp.  You probably didn't deserve it but looked like you did because you seemed like an easy target which reminds me of something my friend said the other day: "Exercise?  But the TV is right there!"

Sitting in a position that displays comfort, command, and authority means your wallet will not be solicited from your pants.  This is a good thing because musicians are poor.


* When adjusting the bench, I position the bench so that when I turn the knob forward, it lowers; backward, raises.  It's easier to adjust the bench this way and takes less effort.

[danny elfboy]

Thanks a lot faulty_damper for your precious explanation!
I too have noticed that height of the bench is of extremely importance to the point that my teacher has been calling me "fanatic" for my focus on posture, balance, correst height and distance. I still can't understand how they don't realize the importance of these things and how they afford ignoring such concepts in their teaching.
Your post helped me a lot to figure out things that indeed are unfortunately not taught.

[counterpoint]

It's all a matter of habit. You can accustomize to everything.   

[faulty_damper]

It's all a matter of habit. You can accustomize to everything.   

Just like walking on your two hands!  It's clearly not the most efficient nor is it the most effective way to walk but some people who've lost their legs have no other alternative choice.

But this should be a caution to those who attempt to use their hands to walk when they have two perfectly good legs.  You are right, you can pretty much become accustomed to anything but that doesn't mean it is the most efficient and effective.  Quite the contrary.  But in order to learn the most ideal posture, pianists need to prioritize certain elements during practice.  These elements are the ones that they are almost entirely ignorant about and thus cause themselves the most suffering.

Most students do not have an adjustable bench.  This is a shame because it is rare that the bench they sit on is at the appropriate height for the repertoire they practice.  As such, they sit and practice at an inefficient and ineffective height thus compromising their ability to play, even if they play rather well.  They were able to accustom their body to doing something in a manner that is not as efficient as it could be.

The point of finding the correct height for any given repetoire is to maximize effectiveness and ease.  If doing something different makes it easier to play without compromise to the music - even if it goes against the teacher's wishes - then that difference should be adopted immediately.

You know when you see someone playing the piano if they are good or not.  They just look
good sitting there relaxed and comfortable.  And you also know the alternative because they look uncomfortable and tense and whatnot.  And as they perform it is clear to see whether or not they really are capable of doin so well.