Am I the only who gets discouraged by electronically enhanced recordings?

[gerry]

I am really beginning to mistrust many piano recordings I hear lately - the are so-o-o-o beautiful until I realize that the recording engineer must be adding certain elements like a sort of "bloom" after notes are played and manipulating the sound in ways that make a piano sound extraordinary. As I listen I see no way that one could really make a piano sound that way. It's really cheating and unfair to those attempting live performances. No wonder Gould felt that the live performance was dying. Is this my imagination or is this an accepted and regular practice now.

[gerry]

I guess I am

[quantum]

I like to think of it as two differing forms of expression.  Like film vs. live theatre.  Sure there are many ways to modify a recording, but these can turn into wonderful moments too.

[gerry]

You could be right. Cinematic special effects in a Peter Pan movie (as opposed to seeing the cable sticking out of her back onstage) might not frustrate me that I couldn't fly, BUT in the case of the classical recording, I still feel it's deceptive as I often listen to get some definitive inspiration. At best it could inspire me to at least try to achieve a similar effect (even if it was only in my mind), but I wish they would just put the microphones on a stage and leave out most of the tricks of the trade.

We could also get into that old argument about how many mistakes some artists insisted on leaving in their recordings, but I don't think that's tolerated much anymore what with digital recording and the relative ease of inserting correct notes, not to mention a whole other subject.

In the end, it's the artists themselves who have to "live up" to their recordings when they perform in public, so I guess it could work against them as well.

[ksnmohan]

Agree with gerry and quantum - it is just cheating, forgery....and what all other names that can be given! Happens not only in Piano music, in Vocals as well. In one of the local (I am in India) TV talent hunt shows for singers, a judge told the participant "Your voice pitch steadiness needs improvement for live singing. But for studio recordings, doesn't matter even you deviate by 25 to 50 cents. They have electronic methods of correcting them" - btw. one full octave is 1,200 cents and an equally tempered semitone (the interval between two adjacent piano keys) is equal to 100 cents. So we are talking here about quarter tones voice corrections being done electronically. Callas and Pavarotti will be rolling - not just stirring - in their graves!

Prof Narayanan
Madras/India

[richard black]

Studio, multitrack, voice recordings have been getting pitch corrected for some years now. But it can also be done to non-multitrack, even live recordings done straight to stereo, without affecting the accompaniment. I know, I invented the technique! The same trick can be used to correct wrong notes - as it happens it's harder with recordings of piano than other instruments but it can still be done. Oh, and I can correct out-of-tune notes on piano recordings too.....

[i heart xenakis]

Speaking of Gould, they've been doing it since Gould anyway =P

But nah I don't really have any problem with it to be honest.  I think if you want authenticity just go to a concert; they're more exciting anyway, no matter how perfect some audio engineer from MIT can make a recording sound.  I also think some of the older recordings pulled off LP's, all full of grain and thwang, are often much more interesting anyways.  I rarely find myself getting extremely excited by new recordings, but it seems like when I stumble across recs by, say, Curzon or Feinberg from the 30's and 40's then I get really excited.  There's just something fun about it.


Besides, if it weren't for editting then the Paganini Caprices would never have a good rec =P  Midori's set apparently had 1000+ edits.

[ksnmohan]

Richard's invention is very interesting - vocal pitch corrections during the course of a live recording! Should be possible during live PERFORMANCES (stage) as well. What type of electronic equipment will be needed?

Thanks i heart xenakis for the +1000 corrections for Midori's Paganini 24 Caprices. I happened to meet Alexander Markov in his hotel room in Budapest while practicing for his Paganini Caprices - my room was next to his and I could not supress my curioisity hearing the (strange!) music coming from the next room. I have the CD and now the DVD of the music. Do you think that his playing also needs corrections?

[m]

Studio, multitrack, voice recordings have been getting pitch corrected for some years now. But it can also be done to non-multitrack, even live recordings done straight to stereo, without affecting the accompaniment. I know, I invented the technique! The same trick can be used to correct wrong notes - as it happens it's harder with recordings of piano than other instruments but it can still be done. Oh, and I can correct out-of-tune notes on piano recordings too.....

Hey Richard,

If the accompaniment and the voice are in different octaves then it is no problem. If you can tell me you can separate them when in the same range (esp. in unison)--kudos to you and I can congratulate you with invention  .

Also, usually, piano gets out of tune in a top range when some strings in a note get out of beat. If you want to say you can correct that and synchronyze them all, I will be more than happy to come and learn the technique as your apprentice.

On the other hand, if it is live and something got messed up in exposition and the only another similar part is in recap but in another key, then there is no problem to fix it.

If there are three repeated chords on a bass background "hanging over" and only the last chord sounded clearly, there is no problem to insert two others, etc. etc. etc...

Moreover, if anything else fails, but the recording has to be issued clean, there is no problem to spend  some time and match the sound from a different recording. The match will include general tonal balance, timbre of instument, presise channel gain, ambience, hall noise, its spectrum, etc.

Best, M

[m]

Sorry double post

[richard black]

If the accompaniment and the voice are in different octaves then it is no problem. If you can tell me you can separate them when in the same range (esp. in unison)--kudos to you and I can congratulate you with invention 

Thank you! It is possible when the voice and accomp are in the same range. Obviously it relies to an extent on the odd way the human ear works.

Also, usually, piano gets out of tune in a top range when some strings in a note get out of beat. If you want to say you can correct that and synchronyze them all, I will be more than happy to come and learn the technique as your apprentice.

Yes, that's exactly what I do.

But I have to say this stuff is not possible in real time - in fact it's a slow, manual, note-by-note process and is a bit of a pain in the proverbial! You've got to really want to do it....

[m]

It is possible when the voice and accomp are in the same range. Obviously it relies to an extent on the odd way the human ear works.

Or I see .  The out of tune accompaniment is much less noticable than that of voice .

[richard black]

The out of tune accompaniment is much less noticable than that of voice

Sort of. The accompaniment is essentially unaffected, actually.

[tompilk]

i suppose you just have to see both.
most of the recordings i enjoy listening to now are live anyway...

[michel dvorsky]

Some of the best recordings in history were done in multiple takes.

- Schnabel: Slow mvt of Beethoven Op 106
- Godowsky: Grieg Ballade
- Barere: Don Juan Fantasy

These performers were quite capable of playing through in one take, but studio circumstances made multiple takes the preferred strategy.

Gould was among the MOST able pianists in history.  He had dozens of interpretations of any particular piece in his mind, and found the "womb-like" security and flexibility of the recording studio the best environment to capture the preferred one (at that moment, at least).  In the recent Boris Berezovsky interview, the subject points to Gould as an example of the "most spontaneous" of pianists. I think Boris is quite right. Incidentally, Gould was also breathtaking live in concert.

The recording studio only becomes a problem when electronics serve as a substitute for pianistic and musical competence.