Insurance Fraud

[thalbergmad]

The stupid woman that just happens to be my boss has just filed a fraudulent Insurance claim.

To cut a long story short, the van driver and another member of staff were moving a piece of equipment that belonged to us down the stairs in another office and they dropped it. She has filed a claim, stating that the equipment was dropped down the stairs in OUR office, which is a blatant lie.

Due to the rather large sum involved (over £3000), i expect that the Insurers might well send in a loss adjuster to question people about how it happened. Whilst i have not been told to lie, I am very uncomfortable with what she has done as it is something i would personally never do.

Just after a bit of advice really.

Ta

Thal

[0range]

Deaf mute employee?

Really, with all of the hilarious creativity you display on these forums, I have a hard time believing you can't come up with some witty avoidance scheme involving women, mountains and lager, Thal...

[gerry]

Not wise to lie in this instance as, if the adjuster has even the semblance of credentials, he/she will certainly be able observe evidence of where the damage took place.

I'm not quite sure what your concern is in this affair. If it's just about your being "honest" then there's no debate unless you don't have a conscience. Do you have a financial stake in this deception? If its about possibly being fired then I would definitely go to the boss and express yourself, adding all of the rhetoric about how you believe that you wouldn't be a valuable employee to her if you were less than honest and trustworthy, blah, blah, and because of this fact you would be unable to back her story if questioned. This could help head off at the pass, so to speak any, concern with being fired, etc. (if that's your concern).

I have to side somewhat with the previous post. Having read your irreverent remarks for some time, and having formed in the minds eye (and from your pictures) a rough idea of your personality, I'm a little surprised to hear you asking advice on a matter like this. Good luck.

[cygnusdei]

Did you witness the incident?

[bench warmer]

The equipment "should" be covered in the insurance policy if it's an asset of the company. Why does the office location make a difference to the insurers?

Theoretically, if you didn't see it happen, your "testimony" is only hearsay and should not be be construed as anything but that.

Anyway, the first law is Self Preservation, you need to CYA (cover your a~~).

Carry an emetic with you, when the adjuster shows up, swallow it. When you start hurling, you have a natural escape from the predicament. Stay out "sick" as long as it takes.

[thalbergmad]

I'm not quite sure what your concern is in this affair.

It is really a matter of conscience. I have no interest in the business and did not even witness the event, but the claim made to the insurance company states that it happened on the stairs 2 yards from where my desk is. It actually happened 2 miles away.

I have many faults as a human being, but dishonesty is not one of them. If questioned on the event by the loss adjuster, i would definately not be prepared to lie, so i was thinking that perhaps it might be better to make an anonymous call to the Insurance Company.

Another member of staff (who actually was involved) also voiced concerns, but was told he could deny his involvement if he was worried.

I am not bothered about being fired, as if i was put under any pressure at all, i would issue immediate grievance. I am more than capable of dealing with the woman.

It is rare for me to ask such questions here and be serious for once, but i just do not know what to do for the best. I guess i just have to make my own mind up.

Thanks for all the posts.

Thal

[zheer]

   Cant you say to the insurance company, that on that particular day you were working else-where .

[thalbergmad]

I could, but that also is dishonest and makes me as bad as the person making the claim.

In addition, if other people said i was there, my situation would become even worse.

I guess what really made me think about this was a programme on the telly about false claims. These insurance people are not idiots and can recognise when they are being told a load of rubbish.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

Actually this would be a really hard thing to decide, for me, too. I principally am convinced that honesty is always the best way to go. If you are enough calm and self esteemed you can tell your boss distinctly what you think. But okay of course it depends on many circumstances and on many "little" considerations about how your relation to your boss is and what you have to lose and on how the "chemistry" works between you and her. Not an easy way to go, good luck

[rhapsody4]

Tricky one.

I don't know how many people work in your office, but it would only take one other person to be honest in this situation and not only would the insurance claim not stand up anyway, you would look rather foolish and potentially end up in trouble yourself. That would be a little unnecessary, especially when you are already uncomfortable with telling said porky.

Rhapsody

[thalbergmad]

honesty is always the best way to go.

That is my motto old chap, but sometimes it gets me in trouble.

Thal

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Not wise to lie in this instance as, if the adjuster has even the semblance of credentials, he/she will certainly be able observe evidence of where the damage took place.

Actually, as the event didn't take place in the office as claimed, all they will see is lack of any evidence of the damage..

If you've been considering an anonymous phone call to the insurance company, I suspect that answers your own question. I think it's fair enough to divulge the truth if you get asked (particularly if you're not worried about whatever consequences ensue), and if the alleged place of the incident is right beside your desk, I'd imagine you will get asked. Btw, how many people work in the office, and are they being asked to all lie in a coordinated manner?

[cmg]

The equipment "should" be covered in the insurance policy if it's an asset of the company. Why does the office location make a difference to the insurers?

I'm wondering this, too.  The claim for damaged equipment, per se, is not fraudulent, only the alleged location of the "damage incident."  But even THAT location is still on the premises of the business. 

Thal, why is your boss bothering to lie about this technicality?  Sounds like she has a legitimate claim no matter where the equipment was damaged.

[landru]

An insurance adjuster is just an outside person and not an law enforcement officer - you don't have to divulge everything even though you want to. When or if the question is asked about where the damage occurred, then say "I wasn't there" when it happened, which is true - not "I wasn't at my desk" but "I wasn't there when the accident happened".

If pressed further by the adjuster just repeat all that you can say truthfully but don't repeat a lie. Remember, you aren't the guilty party at all - you are a third party who wants to stay well out of it. All you could tell the adjuster is what other people said, and the adjuster should get that hearsay evidence from them - not you. If the adjuster is at all competent, he should know pretty quickly what's going on - and has a lot of experience with working with employees that have to balance these issues with their ethically challenged employers.

But I tend to doubt that a 3000 pound cost would bring out much of a response...30,000 pounds - yes!

[thalbergmad]

Thal, why is your boss bothering to lie about this technicality?  Sounds like she has a legitimate claim no matter where the equipment was damaged.

It was our equipment, but it was damaged on another premises whilst being moved from an office that we had vacated.

I thought her action rather strange as well, so she is either very stupid or knows that she was not covered.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Btw, how many people work in the office, and are they being asked to all lie in a coordinated manner?

Only 5 of us and to my knowledge she has only spoken to one of the men that dropped the bloody thing, since he said he was not happy about the situation.

Perhaps i am just a bit of a worrier. As landru said, it is £3000 not £30000, but that don't make me feel any different.

Thal

[gerry]

I guess I would be most concerned that found myself working for someone who set this kind of unethical example--how disappointing. Is she sole owner or does she answer to someone higher-up?

[bench warmer]

OK Thal, 
So what finally happened?

Do you still work for "the stupid woman"?
Did you get asked by the adjuster?
Did it all die-away like a spent candle flickering to nothingness?

Speak up, man. 

[thalbergmad]

She got the cheque yesterday. The loss adjuster did not question anyone.

I doubt if she will do it again though

Thal