What value in doing the ABRSM examinations?

[peter_g_moll]

I would like to know better the advantages and disadvantages of embarking on the AMRSM or similar examination series (say Grades 7-8, then DipRSM, LRSM, say).

I am an amateur, probably around Grade 7 or 8 (I'm presently doing Beethoven's Op. 10/2, Bach's WTC 1 Em and B-flat, Franck-Bauer's Prelude, Fugue and Variation).  I'm a mid-career economist and so have no ambitions about professional concertizing or teaching, but intend to be able to play, and play well, for friends, relatives and church.  My wildest dream is to play Liszt's Weinen Klagen or Busoni's Fantasia nach J.S. Bach.  I have an excellent teacher - a professor at a conservatory.  I have a high quality grand piano.  I am serious about practising, shooting for an two hours daily in the week and three/four on weekends.

For me I think the advantages of doing the exams would be: (a) to obtain an increased sense of direction and purpose with clearly defined milestones, (b) to get repeated independent and objective tests of my progress, which may be useful for me and for my instructor, (c) to acquire the discipline of being able to perform under (some) pressure, (d) to get all this at a modest price (at least compared with tuition costs at conservatories), and (e) to be able to do this by working in my free time, whereas to attend a conservatory is impossible given my work situation.

The disadvantages, to my mind, would be: (a) a drastic narrowing of my efforts with the repertoire, to just the handful of pieces needed to present at the successive examinations; (b) considerable effort in preparation without any professional requirement for the qualification, and hence, in time, a possible loss of motivation to continue with the exams.

I'd be interested to hear from other students in similar situations.  I'd be especially delighted if Bernhard were to weigh in; surely he'd have some sage advice.

[ayahav]

It sounds to me as though piano is a hobby to you. You should know what piano milestones are, for example: A complete Beethoven Sonata, a Chopin Etude, or other major works. I think preparing the the ABRSM exams is a waste of time anyways, but especially for someone whose piano playing is a hobby rather than a prospective career... My advice is: don't.

[bernhard]

You pretty much covered the advantages and disadvantages. I will add the following information that you may or may not be aware of:

1.      DipRSM, LRSM, CTABRSM and the like are actually qualifiying exams: they give you performance/teaching credentials. Gradings 1- 8 on the other hand have no credential value whatsoever. They do not qualify you for anything. They are simply an opinion of your progress given by respected teachers/examiners. Here in the UK, if you wanted to enter a conservatory, the necessary credential would be a GCSE/ A level  in music.

2.      ABRSM exams (the ones I am familiar with) do not involve just performance of selected pieces. They involve aural tests, sight reading, and theory (if you want to do a piano grade above grade 5 you need to have passed on grade 5 theory). Most children and teenagers would not have the motivation to tackle these subjects (let us include scales here as well) if it was not part of the exam. So sometimes an exam may get them to work on these subjects.

3.      The piano syllabus for 2003 – 2004 was one of the dullest ever. The selection of pieces was pretty dismal. To the point that I have not entered any students for it. I could not face having to learn the pieces, so how could I expect the students to do so? I am hoping that the next syllabus (due August/September) will have a better selection. So you may have to learn pieces that do not interest you at all.

4.      The feedback you will get from the examiners is going to be very small. Have you ever seen their comments? It is usually one paragraph long in all, with general sentences like “played well, but the tempo could have been a bit faster”; or “the candidate showed evidence of careful preparation”. I am not criticising the examiners, they do a good job, But they will listen to you for about 15 minutes, and they have to write their marks, and their comments during that time period. So do not expect any sort of detailed evaluation that will be helpful to you or your teacher.

5.      The exam itself takes place in a room with you , the examiner and a piano. I would not call this good preparation for a performance. Sure enough there will be a lot of pressure – much more in fact than if you were playing for an audience, since you know that the examiner is there to criticise you, and he knows his business. And on top of it, you will not really be sharing music with him (in my opinion the real aim of any performance). You will be there offering your efforts to be criticised.


Now, I do not want to discourage you from doing exams, and if you feel that the advantages you listed outweigh the disadvantages you listed, by all means go for it.

However, I would like to suggest an alternative. Instead of doing an exam, have you ever considered entering into a music festival?

If you are in the UK, there are literally hundreds of music festivals going on. These have non-competitive events, in which you go in, and you play your piece in front of a proper audience (usually parents and other students and music teachers). After your performance, an adjudicator, comments on your performance, asks you to play again certain passages and gives you advice on how to improve it. The performance may last some five minutes (say), and the adjudication can go well over 15 –20 minutes. The adjudicators are extremely nice, there is no “fear of failure” as in exam, it is a real performance in front of an audience, and the comments fo the adjudicator are really about music and musicality, not about achieving some artificial exam standard.

It would seem to me that such an experience would be more helpful and closer to what you really want (and by the way, it is cheaper too! The fee for participating in a music festival is much less than an exam fee).

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[kaff]

Hi Peter-G-Moll

I am probably in a broadly similar position to you - adult, amateur enthusiast, otherwise employed in a non-music career.  I learned to play piano as child and teenager and have spent all my life involved in some kind of classical music-making (although not all piano).  I recently decided I wanted to take up piano fairly seriously again, and got myself a decent instrument and teacher.

I recognise all the advantages and disadvantages you have listed, although Bernhard's reply about the low level of feedback from the exam. system is well-made and worth bearing in mind if this was an important factor in your decision making.

However, I have decided to sit ABRSM Grade 8 later this year.  My reasons are as follows:

a) mainly, precisely what you give as a disadvantage, namely the need to concentrate on a limited number of pieces.  I was finding that I was tending to flit happily from one piece to another without much focus.  My sight reading is good and I can "learn the notes" of a piece of this standard quite quickly.  However, I don't just want to learn the notes, I want to learn to play well musically.  I was finding that without the focus of an exam to concentrate me, there was less incentive for me to go really thoroughly into a piece.  This may of course be different for you if you have some scope for playing in public, but I don't at present have that scope.  Since I began playing the exam pieces I have found that I am becoming quite satisfyingly obsessed with them, to the extent that I am waking up in the morning with different phrasings going round in my head. I think that this depth of learning will in turn be transferable to other pieces that I learn in the future.

Bernhard's suggestion of playing at music festivals might well achieve the same result in that it would really concentrate  the attention.  I've never played piano at a music festival, but I have entered several as a singer (as an adult), and didn't much enjoy the experience, I have to say.  I personally disliked the competitive element (which of course doesn't exist in the exam situation).  I found it generated a certain cattiness in some participants which added unnecessarily to the pressure.  Personal opinion only, obviously.

b) after 20-something years of not playing seriously, (and age setting in!) I found that my fingers were not as strong and flexible as they were in my teens.  The exam requires scales and arpeggios and practising those regularly is increasing my strength and flexibility more quickly I think than if I were not playing them.

c) As Bernhard points out there are also theory and aural requirements for the exam.  He says that children and teenagers tend to skimp on these unless forced to learn them.  Well, I think busy adults are just as guilty of this in practice, although perhaps not for the same reasons.  

d) I quite like the idea of perhaps being able to develop a teaching qualification in time.  I've recently been enjoying starting my own children off on the piano.  Perhaps I can develop a new career for my retirement!

I hope these thoughts are of some use to you - my reasoning is quite personal to me, and yours will be to you too.

[Clare]

Yes, it's difficult to know whether it's a good idea or not to sit an ABRSM exam because for someone like you, you could go either way.
For someone who grew up with the exam system, I wish I hadn't focussed so much upon it. It made me a very narrow-minded person with peculiar ideas about practice and giant holes in my knowledge. But that was because my musical knowledge was forming at the time and was kind of, you know, stunted.
I remember when I was younger bringing my teacher all sorts of tricky things that I'd memorised and learnt rather well; things I wanted to learn for fun as opposed to doing it for exam purposes, but my teacher wasn't interested. She'd put it aside and we'd have to go through, you know, some simple minuet thing for the exam.
But it's obvious you are very informed about music already. You have a sensible teacher. You've got your own opinions and you know what you like to play. I don't think going for an exam is such a bad thing, but then again, for someone like you, the only reason you'd be doing it really is for the experience.
So why not? If I were you, I'd give it a go. I like doing exams, but that's me. As long as you have set goals, whatever you choose to do is fine. Instead of an exam or a music festival, the goal could be to organise a little concert at church where you and maybe others play some pieces.
What does your teacher say about it?

[peter_g_moll]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful and highly constructive comments and suggestions.  I'm delighted to discover that there are other people working through the issues in a similar way.  I especially valued Bernhard's comments about the paucity of examiners' feedback (at least at the grade level); his suggestion about participation in a festival; Kaff's comments about the discipline and the "depth of learning" that the exams can help bring about; ayahav's recommendation to forget formal exams and instead select clear milestones; and Clare's sardonic phrase "some simple minuet thing"!

There hasn't yet been a comment from someone who's actually done the DipABRSM / LRSM / FRSM (which would be the ultimate goal of embarking on the grade exams).  Are there any Piano Forum members out there who have done these, and what are their opinions?  If, as is my case, one does not need the formal qualification, could these nevertheless serve as useful learning tools?

[bernhard]

There hasn't yet been a comment from someone who's actually done the DipABRSM / LRSM / FRSM (which would be the ultimate goal of embarking on the grade exams).  Are there any Piano Forum members out there who have done these, and what are their opinions?  If, as is my case, one does not need the formal qualification, could these nevertheless serve as useful learning tools?

These are on a differenet level altogether form the grade examinations. Grades are easy, and it is actually quite difficult to fail. These other exams however give you credentials, so you will have to work for them! The exam itself is just that, an exam (that includes a viva voce exam. besides papers and performance). You can get the sylalbus at the ABRSM site.

However, preparing for this exam can be quite a learning experience! The ABRSM just gives the exam. The preparation for it must be arranged with a private tutor (your teacher may well be able to prepare you).

Mind you, the failure rate is quite high (about 50 %)

Good luck!
Bernhard.

[ballade]

I recently took the LGSMDP (the Guildhall equivalent of the LRSM) on the piano...they are indeed very different from grade exams. I took grades 1-8 inclusive on the piano with distinctions in all (I'm now sixteen) but I only passed the diploma exam. However, it's a great credential/qualification to have. I'm also taking the DipABRSM in violin in July (yeah, I really need to start practising for that ) I don't know how big the level jump is from grade 8 to DipABRSM; I took the grade 8 about 4 years ago so hopefully I should have allowed enough time for musical progression... does anyone else have any thoughts on this? interested as my musical learning has always been very focused around exams. i kind of wonder if I would be different if I'd never taken all these exams.

[comme_le_vent]

i have thought about doing these exams, and i decided against it, they seem to be worthless, as qualifications are of little consequence in an artistic field such as this.

another factor is that im selft taught.

out of curiosity what would i have to do to do them if i chose to..

[bernhard]

i have thought about doing these exams, and i decided against it, they seem to be worthless, as qualifications are of little consequence in an artistic field such as this.

another factor is that im selft taught.

out of curiosity what would i have to do to do them if i chose to..

If you want to do a grade examination, you do not need to do them in order. In fact you can go straight to grade 5 (practical exam: piano). The only condition is that you must have passed grade 5 theory in order to take grade 6/7/8. So if you decide to take grade 8, you must first take grade 5 theory.

It is irrelevant if you are self taught. Usually it is your teacher that enters you for the examination. But this is not necessary. Your parents can enter you, or you can enter yourself if you are 18 (or is it 21?).

Anyway, you can get all this information from the ABRSM website:


https://www.abrsm.org/

There you will find what you actually have to do at the exam. (copies of the syllabus are also available free on most music shops and local public libraries).

The other exams (Dip ABRSM, etc) can also be entered without any prior condition.

In short: to take any of these exams all you need to do is to apply (either by a written form they provide or online), pay the relevant fee, and turn up (well prepared) on the appointed date.

And you are right. These qualifications have little importance, unless you want a job in the system (e.g. teaching music in scholls).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[comme_le_vent]

the fee thing puts me off - i mean whats the point in paying for someone to test you when your not gonna earn money from it anyway.
how much is the fee anyway?

and i have enough confidence in my awesome playing to know i could pass them anyway  

[bernhard]

the fee thing puts me off - i mean whats the point in paying for someone to test you when your not gonna earn money from it anyway.
how much is the fee anyway?

and i have enough confidence in my awesome playing to know i could pass them anyway  

The fee varies with the grade. The highest the grade the highest the fee.

This year I am just putting my students through the grade 5 theory exam (the repertory for the practical was abysmal), the fee for that is £22.00. I think that the fee for a grade 5 practical is £32.00 (have a look at their site, all this information is there). The DipAbrsm is quite expensive - since this is a valid qualification - unlike the grades which are just pretty wallpaper.

Anyway, the deadline for the next exams (June-July) is gone. You can still aply for November-December, but if I were you I would wait until September when the syllbus for 2005 - 2006 will be available. Hopefully the repertory will be better (it cannot be any worse).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[comme_le_vent]

dont worry, i wont be doin it, those fees are ridiculous.

[comme_le_vent]

in fact the whole grades thing is ridiculous anyway - i just dont liek the whole deally-o.

[Noah]

The other exams (Dip ABRSM, etc) can also be entered without any prior condition.

Actually this is not true. I wanted to enter the LRSM exam but apparently I'd have to take the DipABRSM exam before.... and frankly I can't be bothered to learn the pieces, pay the fee etc. for an exam that is below my level of playing (how arrogant of me, I know).

[bernhard]

Actually this is not true. I wanted to enter the LRSM exam but apparently I'd have to take the DipABRSM exam before.... and frankly I can't be bothered to learn the pieces, pay the fee etc. for an exam that is below my level of playing (how arrogant of me, I know).

Noah is right, I stand corrected.

[Noah]

Noah is right, I stand corrected.

Muahahaha

[geze]

So bernhard, can you pls tell me where and when these music festivals are because I would like to participate in one. I live in the UK and I am an advanced amateur. Also I would like to sit the DipLCM sometime in the future what is the best way to prep for it?

[frofrofro]

ABRSM grades certainly aren't the end-all of music, But it's nice to have one. For proof, for bragging, etc (and for yourself). AMEB (Australian equivalent to ABRSM) has 3 levels. 1 is for beginners, 2 for grade 6 to 8 and level 3 for the professionals, basically. Level 2 finishes with a Certificate of Performance (25-35 minute recital) for people who have no intention of performing or teaching professionally. I personally find these achievements honourable.

I did AMEB and stopped at grade 4. Turns out the stuff I'm playing now is all in the syllabus for grade 7, throw in some scales and arpeggios and I'm in line for a nice certificate. Although if this wasn't the case I don't know if I could be bothered because there's too much music to learn that I care about to plod through List A and List B or whatever.

[ajspiano]

are you aware that this thread is 7 years old.

?

I don't mean to discourage you from posting, your answer is very valid. But generally its not a great idea to dig up old threads. In this case the person who asked the question hasnt been on the forum since 2007.

[pianoplayjl]

AMEB has 3 levels. level 1 is for grades preliminary to grade 4. Level 2 is for grades 5-8 and Certificate of Performance. Level 3 is for Assosciate diplomas to Fellowship.
Certificate of Performance is an exam purely meant for performance. Actually if you get a b- or a C grade in 8th grade you have to do the Certificate of performance. There is also the piano for leisure syllabus.

P.s. Sorry for adding info to dead threads

JL