Books or computer interactivity?

[musicrebel4u]

Many of us are afraid to teach using   current technology. We are not afraid to use spell checks when we're writing letters. Maybe, it is time to look at computers differently in teaching how to  play, read, memorize and train ear with piano?

[andric_s]

Usually when someone shows up at a forum and makes multiple posts to promote their product, it is referred to as "Spam".

To answer your ostensible question:

I use the computer too much in daily life.  I use it in my musical practice, as well: for recording, for programming my synthesizers, for storing my music library, taking care of business, and more.  I believe we spend too much time staring at a screen, that this is especially so for children, and I believe this is not good for us.  Piano is a relief from this.

I don't use spell check, because I want to retain my ability to spell.

[musicrebel4u]

Usually when someone shows up at a forum and makes multiple posts to promote their product, it is referred to as "Spam".

To answer your ostensible question:

I use the computer too much in daily life.  I use it in my musical practice, as well: for recording, for programming my synthesizers, for storing my music library, taking care of business, and more.  I believe we spend too much time staring at a screen, that this is especially so for children, and I believe this is not good for us.  Piano is a relief from this.

I don't use spell check, because I want to retain my ability to spell.

Well, I am so glad that you found a great subject for your weary vision.
Stare at your piano as much as it makes you happy!
May I also suggest: window, table, bathroom door and walls!

Regards, Musicrebel4U 

[dan101]

Although I do agree that kids use computer screens (along with T.V. and DS screens...) too often, I do find myself using my computer regularly to teach. Many of my simplified arrangements for students are typeset almost instantly with finale, and I use Cubase regularly to record myself or my students for educational purposes.

[musicrebel4u]

Although I do agree that kids use computer screens (along with T.V. and DS screens...) too often, I do find myself using my computer regularly to teach. Many of my simplified arrangements for students are typeset almost instantly with finale, and I use Cubase regularly to record myself or my students for educational purposes.

Music is a language and the best way to teach any language is through interaction. No wonder that future of music education is technology in teaching process.

[pianochick93]

Call me thoroughly old-fashioned, but I prefer the traditional, face-to-face teaching. I also compose at the piano, and notate it later on the computer, simply because I find it a lot easier.

[musicrebel4u]

Call me thoroughly old-fashioned, but I prefer the traditional, face-to-face teaching. I also compose at the piano, and notate it later on the computer, simply because I find it a lot easier.

Good for you!
I am also a good pianist, can write any music down by ear, musicologist etc etc
We made it! Great!
What about the rest of people, who couldn't?
Let them struggle?

https://www.emusicguides.com/info/Music-Education/Why-can-t-Jenny-play-the-piano--Part-1.html

[pianochick93]

Good for you!
I am also a good pianist, can write any music down by ear, musicologist etc etc
We made it! Great!
What about the rest of people, who couldn't?
Let them struggle?

I can't write things down by ear. Not well at least.

[musicrebel4u]

I can't write things down by ear. Not well at least.

This is because in the USA we don't have a very important subject - Solfeggio with 'fixed Do'

[keypeg]

Musicalrebel4 - By chance, is there a language based confusion here?  All my acquaintances + teacher have Russian training, and all of them have movable do, not fixed do.  I understand movable do to be the diatonic scale where in the major scale "do" is always the tonic.  In G major, "do" falls on G, in C major "do" falls on C, in F major "do" falls on F, etc.  By contrast, for "fixed do", as in France for example, in G major the tonic is called "sol", in F major the tonic is called "fa", because the solfeggio syllables take the place of the note names.

So in the way you were educated, was it the first, where "do" is always the tonic, or the second?

I grew up knowing only movable do solfege and not knowing note names.  I have had to learn that more recently.  Therefore I related to music relatively, always with the diatonic scale and familiar patterns behind me, like a ladder you could move up and down the keyboard and staff.  Some things in note reading that others find hard are easy for me.  However, I could easily transpose accidentally since I was not aware of pitches.

Joining note names and pitches to that is not only a matter of getting new names, but a totally different concept.  In pitch association, which is the only Western way, an A is always an A regardless of what is happening around it, whether it is the third note of F major, part of a triad, or the first note in A major.  Joining the world of pitch and note names with the world of relative pitch and orientation within scales makes music 3-dimensional.

In your system, when you have the children transposing, for example, are you gently leading them into a solfege kind of mentality so that they will have both of these worlds?

[musicrebel4u]

Musicalrebel4 - By chance, is there a language based confusion here?  All my acquaintances + teacher have Russian training, and all of them have movable do, not fixed do.  I understand movable do to be the diatonic scale where in the major scale "do" is always the tonic.  In G major, "do" falls on G, in C major "do" falls on C, in F major "do" falls on F, etc.  By contrast, for "fixed do", as in France for example, in G major the tonic is called "sol", in F major the tonic is called "fa", because the solfeggio syllables take the place of the note names.

So in the way you were educated, was it the first, where "do" is always the tonic, or the second?

I grew up knowing only movable do solfege and not knowing note names.  I have had to learn that more recently.  Therefore I related to music relatively, always with the diatonic scale and familiar patterns behind me, like a ladder you could move up and down the keyboard and staff.  Some things in note reading that others find hard are easy for me.  However, I could easily transpose accidentally since I was not aware of pitches.

Joining note names and pitches to that is not only a matter of getting new names, but a totally different concept.  In pitch association, which is the only Western way, an A is always an A regardless of what is happening around it, whether it is the third note of F major, part of a triad, or the first note in A major.  Joining the world of pitch and note names with the world of relative pitch and orientation within scales makes music 3-dimensional.

In your system, when you have the children transposing, for example, are you gently leading them into a solfege kind of mentality so that they will have both of these worlds?

Well, Russian school of music teaches Solfegio with 'fixed Do'.

Solfegio - is a fundamental subject, which is taught to every musician from the very beginning. It means, that we sing Sol La Ci Do Re Mi Fa# Sol in Sol major etc.

Why is that and why I think this is essential for every beginner? 
Because it is constantly training students' mind to connect abstract pitches of music with their vocal production (voice) and reinforce music memory through speech memory. By singing solfegio in different keys students hear intervals and understand concept of Major, Minor, alterations etc naturally and much easier, than many use to think.

As a result of such training students when they are listening to some music sometimes subconsciously (without any effort) translating sounds into solfegio syllables. It helps them just to grab music paper and write everything down or play by ear on instrument.

In Russian school of music we also learn ABC, but later, in 4th or 5th grade. The purpose of ABC – theory and harmony (science of chords)

'Movable Do' was flourish in Europe at the end of 19 – beginning of 20th century with the idea to give music literacy to masses. The least expensive way it was through choir or learning single voice instruments. Of cause, real, professional Solfegio was not an option, because it required too many man/hours. Movable Do then was only solution.

But today, with help of current technology practically any student can receive the most effective and advanced music education and ear training. I would recommend to do it 'Russian' way, because I learned both solutions and I think that 'movable Do' we have to leave to 19th and 20th century.

[keypeg]

I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, because the people I know who learned in the Russian system definitely said that they learned movable do.  But you were there, so you can't be confused about what you were taught.     I, too, automatically sing what I hear, and recognize it immediately.  I have also learned to fix pitches, but as A B C, to distinguish and came to the point of recognzing an A as an A, even of random sounds like a kitchen fan (C#).  I'm still trying to understand this more.  I will hear pitches as A B C, and I hear them correctly as pitches.  I was taught to sing the scale or a melody as A B C, be aware of the pitches, while also being aware of the relativity within a scale, i.e. do re mi fa, at the same time.  I think I would have been doing something similar to what you describe, but not under those names.

In any case, the training you describe sounds thorough and wonderful.  However, you also say that only a few were given that training, and the rest were left in darkness.  You are trying to rectify that.  I think you are also saying that few would be able to undergo that kind of training?  However, your system will bring them into the ability to read music in a way that incorporates some of that?

[musicrebel4u]

I must admit that I'm a little bit confused, because the people I know who learned in the Russian system definitely said that they learned movable do.  But you were there, so you can't be confused about what you were taught.     I, too, automatically sing what I hear, and recognize it immediately.  I have also learned to fix pitches, but as A B C, to distinguish and came to the point of recognzing an A as an A, even of random sounds like a kitchen fan (C#).  I'm still trying to understand this more.  I will hear pitches as A B C, and I hear them correctly as pitches.  I was taught to sing the scale or a melody as A B C, be aware of the pitches, while also being aware of the relativity within a scale, i.e. do re mi fa, at the same time.  I think I would have been doing something similar to what you describe, but not under those names.

In any case, the training you describe sounds thorough and wonderful.  However, you also say that only a few were given that training, and the rest were left in darkness.  You are trying to rectify that.  I think you are also saying that few would be able to undergo that kind of training?  However, your system will bring them into the ability to read music in a way that incorporates some of that?

Well, not SOME of that, but ALL of that definetely. Today the system that we created is more superior then Russian music school curriculum. No wonder that some of the state schools in Russia are now completely adapting the system.

I will give you a small example. In order to learn piano keys and music notes layout we have some mnemonic 'tricks' like 'Every Boy Does Fine' etc
We developed a program that is training the order of keys and notes more thoroughly and added ear training to that. You may download Free Demo, play it and when you'll be done with ABC, press I on your computer keyboard and try the same program on Do Re Mi. You will see that 'Fixed Do' is not such a big deal to learn

-https://-https://www.doremifasoft.com/notealphabet.html

[keypeg]

I played it with the alphabet and I got mildly tense.  I don't enjoy computer games; I'm the wrong age, maybe.  I tried solfege, and I was faced with a picture of a barn, a cloud with rain falling from it, a mirror, a salt shaker, and a coffee cup.  Eventually I figured out where the cloud, mirror, and barn went.  I had no association with music, no sounds, no life - it made me tense. 

In order to learn piano keys and music notes layout we have some mnemonic 'tricks' like 'Every Boy Does Fine' etc

I did not memorize "every good boy deserves fudge".  I began with movable do solfege. Later I memorized note names, associated them with places on the treble clef, as pitch sounds in my head, as places that lived beside certain keys in their homes. It was multi-sensational, pleasant, and never created tension.

I am sure that fixed do solfege is a good system.  You have pleasant words instead of the alphabet.  Unfortunately I had rain, mirror, barn, salt shaker, and coffee cup.  Having the names of hte objects was missing - I'm sure they are on the full demo.  I do know the solfege syllables, but I could not associate them the the pictures: do, re, mi, fa, sol = which is the barn, which is rain and mirror? I'm sure the salt shaker is "sol".  Having children see pictures is a good idea.  It reminds me of the Waldorf approach.

As an adult, the sequence of ABC was easier because they are familiar.  I cannot judge about the solfege becuase I already know it; then the handicap was having pictures with no names.

[musicrebel4u]

I played it with the alphabet and I got mildly tense.  I don't enjoy computer games; I'm the wrong age, maybe.  I tried solfege, and I was faced with a picture of a barn, a cloud with rain falling from it, a mirror, a salt shaker, and a coffee cup.  Eventually I figured out where the cloud, mirror, and barn went.  I had no association with music, no sounds, no life - it made me tense. 
I did not memorize "every good boy deserves fudge".  I began with movable do solfege. Later I memorized note names, associated them with places on the treble clef, as pitch sounds in my head, as places that lived beside certain keys in their homes. It was multi-sensational, pleasant, and never created tension.

I am sure that fixed do solfege is a good system.  You have pleasant words instead of the alphabet.  Unfortunately I had rain, mirror, barn, salt shaker, and coffee cup.  Having the names of hte objects was missing - I'm sure they are on the full demo.  I do know the solfege syllables, but I could not associate them the the pictures: do, re, mi, fa, sol = which is the barn, which is rain and mirror? I'm sure the salt shaker is "sol".  Having children see pictures is a good idea.  It reminds me of the Waldorf approach.

As an adult, the sequence of ABC was easier because they are familiar.  I cannot judge about the solfege becuase I already know it; then the handicap was having pictures with no names.

I answered in another thread
Running fever and have difficulties with consentration