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Topic: octave trills - brahms concerto 1 (Read 11874 times)

mamapia

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octave trills - brahms concerto 1

on: February 20, 2008, 12:12:22 PM

hi
could anyone out there who has played/practiced the 1st brahms concerto give me some helpful tips on how to practice those octave trills...? thanks

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faulty_damper

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #1 on: February 22, 2008, 08:38:23 AM

Quote from: mamapia on February 20, 2008, 12:12:22 PM

hi
could anyone out there who has played/practiced the 1st brahms concerto give me some helpful tips on how to practice those octave trills...? thanks

You don't play them as octaves. It's impossible. The score gives you explicit instructions on how the trills should sound at the first entrance.

You play the octave first, then abandon the low note and trill the upper with auxilary note. Then, before the next trill begins, you play the octave as a 16th note duration and so on.

I hate this part of this concerto. It's musical effectiveness is only surmounted by Brahms lack of musical talent.

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retrouvailles

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 09:41:35 AM

Quote from: faulty_damper on February 22, 2008, 08:38:23 AM

You don't play them as octaves. It's impossible. The score gives you explicit instructions on how the trills should sound at the first entrance.

Actually it is possible. You do the same thing in the left hand hand you do in the right hand, but reversed, and there you have it, a 3 octave trill. I have heard that some pianists have done this, like Krystian Zimerman (though not in his video).

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m

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #3 on: February 22, 2008, 06:29:05 PM

Quote from: faulty_damper on February 22, 2008, 08:38:23 AM

I hate this part of this concerto. It's musical effectiveness is only surmounted by Brahms lack of musical talent.

Cute one.

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pianogeek_cz

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #4 on: February 22, 2008, 06:57:19 PM

Quote from: retrouvailles on February 22, 2008, 09:41:35 AM

Actually it is possible. You do the same thing in the left hand hand you do in the right hand, but reversed, and there you have it, a 3 octave trill. I have heard that some pianists have done this, like Krystian Zimerman (though not in his video).

Ouch. That must be awfully uncomfortable.

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Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz (Without cunning a nation shall fall, Salvation Come By Many Good Counsels)

counterpoint

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #5 on: February 22, 2008, 06:59:20 PM

Quote from: marik on February 22, 2008, 06:29:05 PM

Cute one.

It's a mess with all these wannabe composers...

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If it doesn't work - try something different!

stephen22

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #6 on: February 22, 2008, 08:22:10 PM

The score shows you how to do it. In the right hand, play the lower note of the trill with its octave, the upper note without. In the left hand, do a normal trill. (The same thing happens at the end of the 1st movement of the 2nd concerto.)

I find it sounds better if you do the opposite: do a normal trill with the right hand, with the left play the lower note with its octave, the upper note alone (4th finger, 2 octaves down).

(I'm sure Brahms is really upset at the comments on his musicality)

Stephen

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faulty_damper

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 11:48:08 PM

I'm sure he's dead tired of it, too.

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pla635

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Re: octave trills - brahms concerto 1

Reply #8 on: March 01, 2008, 07:16:46 AM

I just played this piece with orchestra-

1. The trill can be done if you have a large enough hand and a good 3-5 trill. Play the octave with 1-3 and trill with 5.

2. I didn't do this because my hand isn't big enough, there are many ways to cheat this trill without any one knowing. The first way is to do what fleisher and Rubnstein do which is to play martellato octaves, trilling the thumbs. I personally think this sounds very ugly and is not what is written.

3. Try playing the b-flat and c together like a cluster and tremelo with the bottom b-flat while you make a really powerful trill in the l.h. That's another option.

Hope this helps.

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