Students coming early

[hyrst]

Hi,
I have a student who is the first one every Friday afternoon.  She nearly always comes about 10 minutes early, and is often late being picked up.  If she is quiet, I don't mind her waiting around to be picked up, becuase I am busy teaching.  However, I kind of feel like I  am being left as a baby sitter when she is dropped off early all the time without parent supervision.  She is 6, so I feel bad about leaving her in the studio unsupervised (not that any harm would likely come to her or that she would damage anything - but she is kind of young).  It's just that, if I go down to her to teach, I am teaching for an extra 10 mintues every week with no payment - and it makes it seem like I woudl establish a pattern the paorents would expect.  It might be picky, but it doesn't seem fair.  I find it hard to talk to her parents, who rarely speak to me about anything - most of the parents are very friendly.  I have thought about practicing myself, and waiitng to nearly her lesson time - so I am in the room but not teaching. 

What would do other people do? Thanks

Just a littel thing, I know - and I feel it is probably a matter of me communicating.  I just need a bit of peer encouragement and reminders...

[thalberg]

10 minutes early would annoy me.

If you want to confront the parents, just keep in mind that this is really not an offensive issue.  It's not like you're confronting them on a bad aspect of their child.  It's just a timing thing.  So however you bring it up to them, don't worry.

These parents sound responsible--the 10 minute thing is basically a time cushion to guard against lateness.  They will probably want to get there early no matter what you say. 

One suggestion is that you can tell them you require children to stay under parental supervision until the lesson time.  A parent could sit with her in your studio to supervise before the lesson.

[timothy42b]

I think I would be very, very cautious not to overreact.  This is a six year old who is apparently a good student. 

I guess if it really bothered me, I might try telling the parents I don't start the lesson early, so if they have to drop the child off she must bring a book to read, etc., and sit quietly until it is time. 

But this may be a case where you're likely to buy trouble out of proportion to the benefit.  Do they pay on time?  and deliver the child on time? and the child behaves?  Sounds like a pretty good family. 

[musicrebel4u]

Hi,
I have a student who is the first one every Friday afternoon.  She nearly always comes about 10 minutes early, and is often late being picked up.  If she is quiet, I don't mind her waiting around to be picked up, becuase I am busy teaching.  However, I kind of feel like I  am being left as a baby sitter when she is dropped off early all the time without parent supervision.  She is 6, so I feel bad about leaving her in the studio unsupervised (not that any harm would likely come to her or that she would damage anything - but she is kind of young).  It's just that, if I go down to her to teach, I am teaching for an extra 10 mintues every week with no payment - and it makes it seem like I woudl establish a pattern the paorents would expect.  It might be picky, but it doesn't seem fair.  I find it hard to talk to her parents, who rarely speak to me about anything - most of the parents are very friendly.  I have thought about practicing myself, and waiitng to nearly her lesson time - so I am in the room but not teaching. 

What would do other people do? Thanks

Just a littel thing, I know - and I feel it is probably a matter of me communicating.  I just need a bit of peer encouragement and reminders...

It makes me very happy, when child comes earlier and leaves later. I have several computer+piano stations in my studio and my students have a chance to practice before the lesson starts. I also can talk to them about their day or feelings. Also when the next appointment shows up, kids have great chance to communicate, see what others playing and feel like one family of music lovers.

I think, to be a teacher - is 24/7 kind of job. We touch people's hearts and capable of changing their lives. I want them to know that they are important to me and I am with them because I care.

[faulty_damper]

What would do other people do? Thanks

Just a littel thing, I know - and I feel it is probably a matter of me communicating.  I just need a bit of peer encouragement and reminders...

You need to provide more information on the cultural background of this student and her parents.  In American culture, it's better to arrive early  because they do not want to be on time or late.  In Asian cultures, arriving on time is expected, but not arriving early or late.

Is she as American as white bread or corn bread?  Other things that should be considered is the family culture.  Are they trailer trash or SUVing my-way-or-highway types?  I wouldn't assume they are being disrespectful or rude unless I know their cultural attitudes.

[hyrst]

You're all correct, I think. 

They are Korean - I am English / Australian.  I think I am over-reacting a little because I am not well, and I find it hard enough at times to get through the set time for the afternoon - it feels like a bit more pressure and I wasn't sure if I was expected to teach during that time and felt awkward by deciding to start on lesson time.  Maybe that is all I need to do - and not avoid her, but welcome her into my place instead.  I don't want her to feel rejected either.

Perhaps it is a matter of cultural difference, and I am misinterpreting it based on not knowing what to do or what is expected.  I do usually try to spend social time with the girl, and she is quiet and everything.  The parents do pay on time and her practice is acceptable.  She is progressing well and has a natural, nice tone to her playing.  I really don't want to over-react or make anyone feel awkward.

So, does anyone know what might be meant by this earliness from a Korean?  I do have a reading corner set up, and I let her play the piano or talk with my birds while she  waits.  Do Koreans tend to be very hospitable or to make themselves at home in one another's places? 

That really is a good point.  If it was an Indigenous Australian family, they share things -  no private posessions - and totally look after one another.  I just never thought of the cultural difference. 

Thank you so much!  I guess it is sooo much better than people who are late and still expect full time and stuff.  This really  helps! :-)

[keypeg]

Plain and simple: parents and students do not know that arriving early is a problem.  We think that late arrivals are a problem, and that it is responsible to be there ahead of time.  The first time it dawned on me was when I read a complaint in a forum.  Just let the parents know - they'll appreciate it and be able to respond. 

[counterpoint]

If she is the first student at this afternoon, that would be perfectly fine for me. She has the oipportunity to play a bit and get used to your piano, while you can do other things. Then begin the lesson on time. I don't see a problem.

[hyrst]

Yeah, I will try to relax a bit.  It has helped to get some perspective.  I will try just to be friendly and let her relax, rather than feel like I should be expected to be teaching too soon before time.  Just stick to my own boundaries, without making a point of them. 

I have done lots of thinking about it tonight.  I think I became uptight partly because I don't feel well and partly because she and her sister made themselves so much at home when I was teaching the two back to back.  Back then, it was a conflict between what I wanted to do and what I actually felt comfortable about. 

I used to let the girls get themselves drinks from my kitchen because they were sitting around waiting  for each other and I wanted them to feel looked after.  It was easier to let them help themsleves when they kept asking, rather than interrupt the lessons all the time.  Still, I don't think I really felt comfortable about it.  Also, I occassionally found biscuit and chocolate wrappers hidden in the chair that I think they helped themselves to from my cupboard.  I felt a bit taken advantage of.  I suppose I need to give this little girl a new chance and relax a bit.

Being a teacher means having understanding for a lot of imperfections.  This is, as I realised to start with, a very small thing.  It was just getting to me.  It helps to talk and get other opinions from you guys in similar circumstances.

[counterpoint]

Being a teacher means having understanding for a lot of imperfections. 

Bingo 

[term]

A whole thread about 10 min. wow....

[keypeg]

A whole thread about 10 min. wow....

No it's not.  It's about attitude, relationships, and a shifting of stance - a problem that was manifested by the 10 minutes but is resolved on a deeper level.

[m19834]

Hi hyrst, I remember when I was in basketball and in my first experiences with the head coaches, they would tell us that practice started at a certain time and I would make sure I was there by then.  I was never late, or at least thought I wasn't until my coaches complained to me that I was always showing up late for practice.  I was completely stymied because I had no idea what they were talking about !  As it turns out, they would set a time for practice to begin but expected everybody to show up half an hour earlier and practice shooting hoops and warming up a bit on their own.  I had no idea that they expected this, but once I knew, I got with the program.  Time and perception are funny things !

'Time' (especially "wasted" time) is definitely something that gets my undies in a bunch !  As I have thought about your topic, I was reminded of a time that I became *extremely* angry because I had a student show up quite early for her lesson and I was just pretty put out about it.  I didn't really understand my reaction at the time, actually, but I think I have a little better perspective on it now.

In general, teaching can be very tough !  Also, if you are a private teacher, running your own studio, you are essentially running your own business, too, and it's very important to let people know how things work.  Part of what bothered me about this one student in particular was that she sometimes would just not show up for lessons at all (no fault of her own).  Or, she would come 15 mins late for a half-hour time slot.  In general, I felt very much that her family did not respect me or my time, and that is ultimately what bothered me ... not just the amount of minutes that she did this or that.

Part of what has changed is that I am more strict with my policies in general.  As I have grown more confident in actually enforcing policies that make all of our time together more harmonious, I think that parents have come to better respect me ... or at least I feel that we have more of an understanding together.  If I feel I am being honestly disrespected, I do go to my 'thinking station' and start considering what I may need to change in what I expect and how I communicate those expectations with parents and students.

A big part of what I am trying to say is that I think things like what you are talking about can actually be a big deal !  It can either be a reflection of a parent's attitude that needs to be dealt with, or it can be a reflection of how you run things and perhaps indicative of changes that need to be made.  Sometimes it's just a matter of better communication taking place with you between students and parents and there is no disrespect at all.  And of course, if it doesn't bother you in the slightest, no changes need to be made.  It's always up to you though .

[hyrst]

Mmmm...  More food for thought.  Thanks, Karli. 

I have actually been reviewing how I run my policies and have sent out new forms for agreement this past week.  Maybe it is all part of  this process.

I wanted to say that it is not the extra time in itself that I mind - I am so often wanting to give more time than a student is booked for.  It's just that when I do give more, I want to do it because I choose to do it. 

The problem with a practice of being out of time is that it seems to become expected - sometimes to the inconvenience of parents, though.  Some seem to take it for granted - others don't notice, and some value every extra little bit you give them.  I think I also end up expecting it of myself or feel pressure to work over lesson times.  Things snowball.

Does need for refinement repeatedly arise, or does a time eventually come when you've had enough experience to know what works and to stick by it?

It is very difficult to find policies that work for everyone and are fair, without seeming overly self-protective.  Even harder is managing to stand by them in a reasonable way without showing any favouritism.  I know policies are supposed to be objective - but it doesn't always work out like that in practice. .. and when we bend them, it is hard to know how far to stop.  Suddenly, I feel rather strained, and it is time to take stock again.

I think this particular issue was a very grey area, with underlying feelings on my part based on some disappointing experiences with this family that were not really wrong on their part - just things that created complications for me.  They are things I have had to review in my recent policy change.  I think I am in a better position to isolate this early arrival now (BTW, 10 mins is when I know she will be here by.  It has been even much earlier.) from other things that are happening, and to not feel resentful about it.

I have made a decision that she is allowed to come when she gets dropped off, but I will not start teaching and won't let myself feel concerned if the mother comes to drop off books and I am not yet teaching if it is not yet lesson time.  There isn't anything wrong with this, is there? 

The only thing left concerning me is that there is a duty of care, and I don't know if that obliges me to be in the room with her.  If I should be, it seems silly to sit there waiting.  Now, I have gone full circle in my mind.  It is hard to give this girl extra time because her lessons feel long enough at half an hour.  She is very self-governed and resists much repetition or much new information / technique or pieces.  What she does she does well, but she is quick and capable of more, but won't do it.

I appreciate everyone's patience with me working through this.  It helps to know what others do or what they think is right.  It is also nice to have a place to think. Thanks.

[m19834]

The most "fair" you can be with your students is in first being fair with yourself.  Whatever your policies are, they will indeed work for everyone whom agrees to them.  Nobody has to agree with your policies, nobody has to decide to sign on with you.  But, if they do want to study with you, it is on your grounds and with your rules. 

I have had a couple of cases where parents do initially agree to my policies but must think I don't *really* mean to stick by them and wind up getting some little whim somewhere along the way and think they should express their opinion to me about how I am being unfair and unrealistic.  heh.  Well, they get my opinion and my policies right back (and a reminder that these are the precise arrangements that they agreed to upon enrolling in my studio) and it's funny because every time I have to face something where I think a parent may not understand or that I may be being too harsh, they have always responded with greater respect than before !  I don't personally enjoy needing to confront people, but when there is a real need to do so, I always feel better after I do.  In each of these cases though, I make a decision about whether or not I am willing to let this student go if the parents decide to pull them out after they realize that I truly do mean business (and I am willing to let them go). 

I think our policies reflect the things that we value as individuals and as teachers.  I think they reflect our basic teaching philosophy and they are the backbone of a studio.  Without adherence to them, I believe I would be providing a lot less for my students and that parents would not be getting what they ultimately want (but don't know they want).  Afterall, I am the professional in the line of piano teaching, not them, and there is a reason they are paying me to teach their child (or to teach they themselves); it's because I know how things will work best.  I think that having firm policies can build safety and trust between families/students and teacher/school.  And, safety and trust are necessary ingredients to a productive learning environment.  I also do think that continuous refinement takes place and I personally wouldn't want it any other way (that means perspectives are changing and growth is happening).

These days, if a student comes early (or leaves late -- especially at the end of my teaching day), I tell them they can sit at the piano but that I have some things I need to be doing.  Sometimes I will even vacuum right under their feet if that's something I need to do ... hee hee.  Now, with a student who is so young that they actually require watching after, there is a bit of a problem there.  Firstly, obviously parents know this child is too young to just sit alone in one part of the house, yet with no prior agreement with you (I am under the impression that there is not a verbally communicated agreement between you and the parents about this) the parent(s) drop her off in the assumption that you will be there and able to provide that kind of care for her.  I would personally not accept this on an ongoing basis unless it was very certain circumstances and we had a formal agreement regarding this.  At the very least, for the safety of the child herself, the parents should want to make sure you can actually provide the care that the child would need (though by now I guess they are just assuming that you can) !

A couple of things have changed these circumstances a bit for me.  I have become so busy that sometimes I am not getting back to the house until literally 5 mins before I am scheduled to be teaching and then I am leaving the house with my last student of the evening at the scheduled time that I am supposed to be done.  If students show up early, I won't be there !  If they leave late, I won't be there !  I do let people know ahead of time when I really need to be leaving right on time.  If I had a special case where they were constantly leaving late at the end of my day, for example (that same student I mentioned in my earlier post would sometimes be here for up to 45 mins. after I was done teaching for the day), I wouldn't hesitate to make up circumstances that get the point across to the parents. 

I have to wonder though, why do parents and caretakers of children do this kind of stuff to their children ?  Why don't they make *sure* their child will be looked after ?  Why do they just assume somebody else will fill in for them ?  That is not good parenting, in my opinion !

You *do* have to be protective of yourself and of your time, but that is ultimately best for your students, too !  Having that in place better assures that you can concentrate on teaching instead of worrying about and being distracted by things like what this thread is about.  In general, just because a person decides to be protective of their time does not mean the individual can not still cater to the genuine needs of the family -- communcation is important though.

[hyrst]

afrrrffffffffff

[dan101]

If you need the student financially, then don't make a huge fuss. If, however, you have more than enough students, then tell the parents to come and pick up on time. You're not a daycare center. I guess your decision depend on your circumstances. Good luck.

[keypeg]

Does anyone ever bother to explain to parents or adult students what the circumstances are of a teacher?  If you're not in the shoes, you can't imagine it, and you will do dumb things unthinkingly.  Why are teachers and students/parents so shy about talking to each other frankly and simply?  It's a two-way problem, with resentment and confusion as an off-shoot.

[hyrst]

By the way, my last message was not some strange code - my bird jumped on my computer.  I thought he had back spaced when I was about to type something, but he must have typed in some letters and pressed post somehow.  Sorry!  Oops!!

[keypeg]

   I thought you were agreeing angrily with an "arrfffffff" growl.  Seriously.

[thalberg]

By the way, my last message was not some strange code - my bird jumped on my computer.  I thought he had back spaced when I was about to type something, but he must have typed in some letters and pressed post somehow.  Sorry!  Oops!!

I believe you, because when I look at where those letters are on the keyboard, they seem like they're about as far apart as a bird's feet.

[hyrst]

I have a medium sized parrot.  Sometimes he runs across my keyboard when I am typing.  He often 'finds' the backspace key, which then means  the page I have been working on is lost.  That happened last time I was going to write a post, and he lost my page.  I decided not to write.  I  thought he had just backspaced, so thought nothing of it.  He obviously somehow managed to press the keys and the mouse button to send.   `

Anyway, I have resolved the issue I raised here - not by confontation, but by working through my feelings and my policies, with the help of this forum thread.

It is true that we teachers sometimes find it hard to talk with parents.  I find it intimidating.  However, I find it very difficult to ask anybody for anything and always have done.  I find it hard to be assertive and I am very used to doing things on my own with simple determination - I am a single mother.  A few times I have had to discuss a problem or make a stand with a parent.  Sometimes it has been unpleasant - sometimes productive.  Teachers and parents are people, with faults. 

In  this situation, I am not going to say anything.  On the Fridays, I do only just walk in the door after collecting my kids from school.  I often haven't had time to relax or have lunch, so I have felt pressure by having this child come early.  However, she can wait while I do whatever I need to do - and I will start teaching when it is time.  At least I am in the house.

I don't resent the situation now.  I don't think they are deliberately taking advantage of me.  I was feeling a little frustrated becuase a  number of problems arose at the same time.  This was one frustration where I didn't know what line to draw.  That was why I needed some opinions.  The other issues have been confronted and I have had to reissue my policies.  It is all coming together now.

Thanks everyone. :-)

[pianowolfi]

By the way, my last message was not some strange code - my bird jumped on my computer.  I thought he had back spaced when I was about to type something, but he must have typed in some letters and pressed post somehow.  Sorry!  Oops!!

LOL My laugh of the day.

[gyzzzmo]

Beat that student to death. They'll never come too early again 

[nyonyo]

Why is it so difficult to control 6 yr old girl. Since she is Korean, they are used to be told to sit and not to do anything naughty. Remember, Asians kid are, generally, emotionally strong, they will not get hurt by what you said. They are used to be treated strictly at home. If you say nothing, she thinks she is in Disneyland!!!

[john v.d.brook]

Just a few additional thoughts - do you have any reading material, such as Piano Explorer, for the student to look at?  Do you mind if she sits at your piano and warms up?

[timothy42b]

Just a few additional thoughts - do you have any reading material, such as Piano Explorer, for the student to look at?  Do you mind if she sits at your piano and warms up?

Good thought, one that hasn't really been addressed.

This implies a waiting area, which is a reasonable thing for a teacher to provide, part of the cost of doing business.  Remember that while sometimes it is the student who is early, other times it may be the teacher who is late, or some combination of circumstances. 

[a-sharp]

If it were me, and it bothered me (perhaps many repeated occurances might), I might occasionally not be there until 5 min. prior - out running an errand or something. I would certainly not start the lesson until the top of the hour (or 1/2 hour whatever the case may be) but it would annoy me more if they were consistently *late* by 10 minutes... I have in the past put into a newsletter that I'm not "legally allowed" to have more than student in my home unsupervised ... which took care of the parent picking up their student 10 minutes late every time(!) ... but 10 min. early ... I'd just let them read or warm up probably and start the lesson on time.

Today - what actually bugged me was 'Dad' bringing my student (for the 1st time) and talking on his cell phone for 15 minutes during our lesson. geesh.

[slobone]

Sorry, I'm late coming to this thread, but it seems to me a 6 yr old girl should not be left by herself, especially in your house!

If this only happens once in a while, I'd let it slide, but if it's a regular occurrence, you should tell the parent, "It's great that you want to make sure your child is on time, but my schedule doesn't permit me to start a lesson early. So if you come ahead of time, could you stay with her until we're ready for the lesson? And please try not to be late picking her up, as I'm not in a position to supervise her then either."

And don't feel guilty about saying this -- why should the parent be allowed to assume that their time is more valuable than yours?

[hyrst]

Thanks Slobone, and everyone who helped work this through.

Comments were made about waiting areas a while ago.  I do have waiting area, with books and activities, and I have told the girl she is allowed to play there or at the piano.  This didn't help in the past.  She would go and spend time with my birds instead, which would have been a nice idea if she didn't then get upset and hide in the toilet because I have a large parrot who is friendly, but the girl got scared if he came towards her.  Now, I make sure the birds are already out of the studio area.

I have not spoken to the parents.  Although there was one day when she was early and the mother came in to talk with me and I was still upstairs getting ready.  I think that helped.  Since then, the girl has not been 20 minutes early, as she was often before.  I don't know if the two are coincidence or resultant.

I have decided not to start teaching early, and to supervise while I do things I need to - like have some lunch - if necesssary.  I am farily comfortable with this now, since I think I should not be obliged to give time that is taken for granted.  However, I do think her welfare is important.

I do need to talk with the parents, though.  I have introduced a policy that students are not to leave without adult supervision.  I am amazed how many parents sit in the car and expect a 5 or 6 year old to go outside by themselves.  Only two parents have failed to change this pattern, which is pretty good.  But, this girl's parents are one of them.  In both cases, I have had the children wait while I am trying to teach somebody else for a full half hour.  Perhaps it takes time for patterns to change.

[merryfiddler]

Hyrst, I think it's great that you are taking the initiative and changing your policies so parents are aware how you want your studio to be run.  I have found that it is hard to confront parents but also that it is just something you have to do sometimes.  I particularly don't like hounding them for payment....makes me feel like a money grabber! - but in reality, by stating what we want to happen in our own studio, we are only asking for reasonable consideration of our time and expertise.  It sounds like you are doing a great job to me. Keep it up!

[hyrst]

Thankyou, very much for the encouragement  

[slobone]

Hyrst, I think it's great that you are taking the initiative and changing your policies so parents are aware how you want your studio to be run.  I have found that it is hard to confront parents but also that it is just something you have to do sometimes.  I particularly don't like hounding them for payment....makes me feel like a money grabber! - but in reality, by stating what we want to happen in our own studio, we are only asking for reasonable consideration of our time and expertise.  It sounds like you are doing a great job to me. Keep it up!

And -- if it's necessary to teach the parents a lesson about obedience to the rules and consideration for others, maybe they'll pass that on to the kid. Can't hurt their attitude towards practicing the piano, either...