Ornaments Baroque

[ridr27]

Ok, I know Ornaments are a mixed up subject, but:

In Baroque/Bach/Beethoven: 
a short squiggly with a */ * thru it is a Mordent
(going down)

I was taught a short squiggly without a */* was a short trill.
Now I read that it is a Mordent (going up) and is called an **inverted Mordent.**

but further I read it is a trill.??  Some reading indicates you use **tr** plus squiggly for trill.

Am I clear as mud?  Maybe someone can answer this.

Thank you, Thank you.
ridr27

[feddera]

Maybe this table from the Alfred edition of Bach two-part inventions is what you are looking for. It's a screenshot from a free preview from Amazon.com, so I guess it's legal. Still, I recommend buying that edition, there is lots of useful stuff on ornamentation in there.

Hope this helps!

[dan101]

I agree. The Alfred edition is what I use for my students. They are very clear and concise.

[ridr27]

Thank you for replying.
Yes the Chart is how I thought should be.

I am going to forget I ever heard of *inverted Mordent*!
 

I would say in actuality it is rarely used.

Thank you both.
Ridr27

[gerry]

Are you referring to the Kalmus edition, edited by Bischoff, published by Alfred? Please supply details. Thanks.

[feddera]

https://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Inventions-Sinfonias/dp/0739036866/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203992201&sr=8-3

This is the one. In addition to the table, it has a long introduction discussing variants of the different ornaments, some history etc. You can even get it with a (really good) CD if you wish!

[gerry]

Thanks for the reply. I didn't get a good early grounding in baroque ornamentation and, although I've been able to assimilate much over the years, I find now I would like to take a somewhat more scholarly approach. I'm sure this will help.

[faulty_damper]

Something that should be considered is that the table of ornaments, written down by JS Bach, is a guideline only.  In many instances a trill sounds better on the principle note and not the auxilary.  This also applies to the mordent.  You need an actual context to decide this.

Some performers will refer to this table as the Ten Commandments of piano (keyboard) performance of Baroque music and perform such ornaments literally without regard to the music.  It may seem like starting on the auxilary instead of the principle is just a difference of one note but it makes a huge difference.  [Take Bach's B minor fugue (WTC1) as an example of starting on the principle note over the auxilary.  It's a beautiful fugue if performed correctly.]

That table is pretty useless because most people's knowledge of the repertoire is pretty limited to a few pieces (of JS Bach).  And even with this limited access, only a couple of those ornaments would regularly be used.  Consider the Well-tempered Klavier, for example, that it doesn't ever use more than 3 of those ornaments.  In order for that table to be used to the fullest, you'd actually have to look at Baroque music and Bach's music is pretty dated for the table to be of much use.  The works of F. Couperin and Duphly come to mind but even then, the notation practices were not so specific.

[gerry]

Thanks for that reminder. I've always subscribed to the school of breaking (or making your own rules) but only when and if you know the rules you're choosing to break. It's for this reason that I wish to revisit some of the basic rules. You're correct in that in the end, it's the particular piece that will dictate the ornamentation and if one has a good grasp of the melodic line (and a reasonable degree of good taste), the correct ornamentation will hopefully be obvious.