need fingering, please

[tysteel2]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could please give me what would be the best fingering for the following in the bass cleff.    This is in 4/4 time, with each note lasting one beat. Played by the left hand:

measure 1
-----------------
C - A -C -C


or this illustration will help you understand better...it won`t be exact, but it gives you an idea:



----------------------------- ------C-

-------A---------------------

---------------------------

------------------------------
C                           C
--------------------------

------------------------------

=====================

Also, would the fingering that you recommend stay the same if it were a B note instead of an A?

[goalevan]

I would use 5-2-5-1

[tysteel2]

Thanks for the reply, Goalevan.   I do have a question though.  I'm wondering what you think is the benefit of using the 5-2-5-1 fingering over a 5-1-5-1 fingering for this?   I've seen some argument from another pianist from some other forum where I asked this same question who says there is no added benefit to use 5-2 as opposed to 5-1 in such as case.  

also, do you think you'd stay with the 5-2-5-1 fingering if it was a B note instead of A?  Isn't using a fingering like 5-2 to span from C to B less comfortable than say 5-1 to finger the same two notes?

[bernhard]

Both fingerings will do fine. It will depend on your hand size.

Have a look here for a discussion of fingering principles.

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1081604995

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[tysteel2]

Both fingerings will do fine. It will depend on your hand size.

Have a look here for a discussion of fingering principles.

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1081604995

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Thanks for the link and explanation, Bernhard.  But isn't efficiency of motion another important facet of choosing correct fingering?  

Let me give you an example which I'd like very much to ask you about.  In the textbook "the complete piano player" by Ken Baker, it has the following notes listed in the bass cleff for the beatles song "when i'm 64".  Played by the left hand in 4/4 time with each note lasting a beat:

measure 1
------------------
C - G - G - G

or as presented below:

----------------------------- ------

------------------------------- -----
             G                                        G
--------------------------- ----------------

------------------------------
C                      
--------------------------

---------------------  G---------

=====================

the suggested fingering listed is 3-1-5-1

It could also be played as 1-5-1-5, but wouldn't that be a wrong approach?

in this case wouldn't 3-1-5-1 be a much more preferable fingering because there would be less back and forth movement for the wrist and pinky finger as you'd experience with the 1-5-1-5 fingering?    Or is this so much of a non-issue that it doesn't matter which fingering you choose?  

[bernhard]

Thanks for the link and explanation, Bernhard.  But isn't efficiency of motion another important facet of choosing correct fingering?  

Certainly.

Let me give you an example which I'd like very much to ask you about.  In the textbook "the complete piano player" by Ken Baker, it has the following notes listed in the bass cleff for the beatles song "when i'm 64".  Played by the left hand in 4/4 time with each note lasting a beat:

measure 1
------------------
C - G - G - G

or as presented below:

----------------------------- ------

------------------------------- -----
             G                                        G
--------------------------- ----------------

------------------------------
C                      
--------------------------

---------------------  G---------

=====================

the suggested fingering listed is 3-1-5-1

It could also be played as 1-5-1-5, but wouldn't that be a wrong approach?

I would not say wrong, but certainly 3-1-5-1 would be preferable (but this is quite a different case from the one in your first question).

in this case wouldn't 3-1-5-1 be a much more preferable fingering because there would be less back and forth movement for the wrist and pinky finger as you'd experience with the 1-5-1-5 fingering?    Or is this so much of a non-issue that it doesn't matter which fingering you choose?  

Fingering is always a priority. It is never a non-issue. Most if not all pieces will succeed or fail on the basis of fingering.

However, it is not always possible to guarantee that one fingering will be the correct one because of individual differences in physicality. So in the beginning you may have to follow whatever fingering is available (your teacher's or the score) but eventually, as your experience grows,  you will have to figure out which fingering is best for you and for the passage you are working on.

A good way to work out the fingering is to play (when possible) the sequence of notes to be fingered as a chord. If you try that with the example you supplied above, you will see that fingers 3 - 1 - 5 - 1 fit the chord very well, while 5 - 1 - 5 - 1 do not fit at all.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[tysteel2]

"I would not say wrong, but certainly 3-1-5-1 would be preferable (but this is quite a different case from the one in your first question)."
-Bernhard

Yes, the first example was a different case, but was very similar in many respects.  

In the first example with the notes C-A-C-C, the fingering Goalevan provided was 5-2-5-1.   I assume the reason why Goalevan provided this fingering as opposed to 5-1-5-1 for that measure was because the latter would've involved a little bit more motion and movement than the former.   And the fingering he recommended would be more efficient in that respect.

 It seems that theoretically, he is trying to do with his recommended fingering what would be done with the second example I provided where 3-1-5-1 fingering would be more efficient than 5-1-5-1.   You say it is different, but how so?   It seems that the goal is the same, no?

[anda]

what tempo? cause for fast tempos, you shouldn't use 5-1-5-1 (you'll stretch the muscles), but if the passage isn't too fast, and these notes work as pedal-bas (i don't know the work), then 5-1-5-1 is definitely the best fingering, and the inherent balancing motion of the hand will get you a good sound for a deep grave bas sound (hope this makes sense, sorry, poor english)

[tysteel2]

Thanks Anda.  I take it you are commenting on my first example, correct?  As for the tempo, it would be about 60 mm.  

I still would like to know that if you do have the hand size, would Goalevan's fingering of 5-2-5-1 be a better fingering than using 5-1-5-1, and why?   Or does it not matter at all which you use?  

[goalevan]

I'm by no means an expert on this but to me it just seems the less movement required by the hands, the quicker, more efficient and just all around easier that sequence would be to get through. As Bernhard said, the fingering you would use if that were a chord can really help you figure out comfortable and efficient fingering. I would probably use 5-1-5-1 for the C-B-C-C though because my hands are sort of small and it's easier for me.