this made me smile

[Kassaa]

Indeed, i would never suggest that. I don't think that Weber is better than Beethoven.

I think Dussek is.

Thal

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[thalbergmad]

I say, that is damned clever.

[indutrial]

Quite so.

But as you have outlined politics in such cases does exist.  The way people perceive and react to a piece of music is just as important to contemplate as the the music itself.  The latter inherently connected to the former.

Yes, but this piece was pretty much purposely thrown into this forum so that everyone can flame the hell out of it, which is not too far removed from the way Maury and Jerry Springer bring freaks onto their talk shows to get yucks out of the assholes in the audience. All and all, this thread is annoying and petty because most of the users here have a hard enough time carrying on mature and thoughtful conversations about composers from the first half of the twentieth century, so a nonsensical flame thread about a 21st century composer is dead useless right out of the gates.

This is just as pathetic as the types of asinine discussions people have about real politics where you constantly run into people who will give you a million propaganistic taglines to justify what is essentially just their preference (usually having only to do with something like wanting their tax return). It's always libs fighting with neocons over integrity and the real problems in the world are tertiary at best.

Actual discussions about music that involve even the slightest goal of objectivity (which of course is impossible to ever truly achieve) are pretty much five times removed around here, because nobody can get over apparantly-important qualifiers like "what my instincts tell me", "what my teacher tells me", "want I was told in school", and "what everyone else thinks." Just another popularity contest and everyone's anxious to be on the winning side.

[quantum]

A person cannot be accused of being wrong of their own opinion.  Others should be free to state their own. 

Any thread can disperse into a flame war. 

Yes, but this piece was pretty much purposely thrown into this forum so that everyone can flame the hell out of it ...

Really?  How do you come to that view? 

[indutrial]

A person cannot be accused of being wrong of their own opinion.  Others should be free to state their own. 

Any thread can disperse into a flame war. 
Really?  How do you come to that view? 

Because all it does is encourage people to one-up one another with snarky comments and tiresome editorializing about contemporary music. Anyone who knows this forum's habits should be aware that these kind of threads go nowhere and just reinforce the annoying musical prejudices and intellectual stubbornness that course through this place.

I should have said that it seemed like it was thrown in here to be flamed. There's little way for me to know what you were aiming for with the original post.

[gerry]

I really don't mind the discussion that ensues as a result of this posting. I appreciate the few more erudite defenses put forth in support of pieces like this as I'm anxious to hear more of what it is that some find valuable and interesting and fulfilling about it. The "snarky" remarks (maybe some of mine) are indicative of the uphill battle this genre faces with the general public. I don't buy into the rather nihilistic "opinion doesn't matter" argument - I do think opinions matter and that it's important to attempt to verbalize them. It well may be, as indutrial posits, that we here on the forum have a hard time approaching objectivity in our discussions regarding contemporary music, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying. I'll admit that I haven't kept up with current trends in piano composition and this (and iumonito's links) came as somewhat of a shock but, like painful medical procedures, it eases as one comes to know what to expect. It may also be an "age" thing in that the pain, alienation, etc. that iumonito speaks of is something that the younger generation needs to hear--I, for one, have had enough of the real thing that I don't need it reinforced by the music I choose to listen to. We are, unfortunately, limited here on the forum by the curse/blessing of anonymity. I would really treasure some face-to-face time discussing current trends with an afficionado but at present I have to depend on the postings. Thanks all, in spite of the name-calling, misunderstandings, etc., this has been an eye-opener for me.

[indutrial]

I'm not calling for an outright evaporation of opinions and choice of taste in music. Those are fundamental elements of what makes people individuals. All I'm suggesting is that these adverse reactions do not necessarily need to segue into more trash-talking and blatently subjective philosophizing because that just makes the forum turn into a bastion for whirlpool debates and "agree to disagree" tensions that never resolve and inevitably swell back up time and again. Way too many posts on modern music have been sucked into this kind of muck and mire and it's tiresome to see yet another going in that direction.

[ahinton]

I'm not calling for an outright evaporation of opinions and choice of taste in music. Those are fundamental elements of what makes people individuals. All I'm suggesting is that these adverse reactions do not necessarily need to segue into more trash-talking and blatently subjective philosophizing because that just makes the forum turn into a bastion for whirlpool debates and "agree to disagree" tensions that never resolve and inevitably swell back up time and again. Way too many posts on modern music have been sucked into this kind of muck and mire and it's tiresome to see yet another going in that direction.

Agreed. Opinions can be refreshing and interesting when they are so (which is neverthelesss not always the case), but the most important aspect of their presentation is that it is made clear at all times that they are opinions rather than facts; if people remember this simple tenet, there would be an "outright evaporation" not of opinions, choice ans tastes but of those very kinds of distracting and often less than edifying exchanges that you rightly deprecate - a welcome if sadly somewhat unlikely prospect...

Best,

Alistair