Fixed "Do" -- different scales and relative pitch ?

[m19834]

I am still trying to understand how "fixed do" systems actually work and what the pros and cons would be of using it.  As I understand it, the "fixed do" system uses solfege names for each key/note on the piano (and staff -- corresponding to the piano keys) instead of letter names (A, B, C ... etc).  So, for example, all "c's" would be "do" instead of "c".

What I like about movable "do" is that it helps with relative pitch by giving each beginning note of the scale (whether it be "C" or "G" or whatever) the name "DO" and then establishes tonality relative to each starting pitch of the scale.   There is a solfege syllable for each starting pitch and the relative scale degrees each have the same solfege name, no matter what scale is being used.

What I really can't wrap my head around is how, with fixed 'do', you grasp the idea of different scales ?  Unfortunately, I don't know enough about fixed do in order to even ask a better question than that !    If you don't use letter names, how do you even call different scales ? 

Also, how do you refer to relative pitch with "fixed do" ?  So, from C to E is equivalent to "do" to "mi" in movable "do" system, and "do" to "mi" would also represent G to B if we were using a G scale.  The relationship between "do" to "mi" is known as a major third .... argh, I will have to come back !

Thanks,
Karli

[guendola]

I never heard of a "fixed do system" but I suppose it is the system that was used before the "natural" tones a-g were introduced. I don't see any reason to rename the notes a-g back to doremi. Well, French people still use the old system, as "ut re mi fa sol la ti", so that could be called "fixed do system" or rather "fixed ut system".

[mike_lang]

I never heard of a "fixed do system" but I suppose it is the system that was used before the "natural" tones a-g were introduced. I don't see any reason to rename the notes a-g back to doremi. Well, French people still use the old system, as "ut re mi fa sol la ti", so that could be called "fixed do system" or rather "fixed ut system".

Actually, most countries other than the United States and Great Britain used fixed-do - "do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-si-do."  Part of the reason that it is used is that these are much easier vowels to sing on than A-B-C-D-E-F-G.

[guendola]

Actually, most countries other than the United States and Great Britain used fixed-do - "do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-si-do."  Part of the reason that it is used is that these are much easier vowels to sing on than A-B-C-D-E-F-G.

Ah! So maybe that's the explanation. Perhaps "fixed do system" means "today's normal system", referring to "do" as "normal" in most countries and therefore confusing people who use abc... in their own language. In Germany, we use ahcdefg but students are sometimes forced to learn the relative doremi for singing (but they never got me  ).

[keypeg]

Karli, when I did my ear training which included pitch training last year, I was to sing a major scale with the pitch names and being aware of the sound of that pitch as I sang it, and at the same time at one level below I was to imagine the movable do solfege (relativity) and their names simultaneously.  In this way I would also be moving the 7th degree closer (sharper) to the tonic, and the 4th degree closer (flatter) to the third.  It's a kind of merging of the two properties of notes: pitch as pitch, and relativity.

It would be a small jump to doing this merging without using movable do as a visible device.    You would learn your first major scale, becoming acutely aware of the relationship and role of each of the degrees - the characteristics or personality of the dominant for example, as is done with movable do.  Then you keep those characteristics in mind as you play or sing subsequent scales.

Therefore you could sing or play the G major scale as G A B etc. without any mention of m.d.solfege syllables, but keeping the pattern in your mind that BC is a semitone apart and close, and F# G the same.  That would be best reinforced through singing since the piano creates the notes for you and I think the ear gets lazy.

Taking this one step further, you could also do that with fixed do, if such is your culture, in which case you are treating the syllables as pitch names.  The concept of using those syllable names to indicate relativity disappears.

[nia_kurniati]

That would be best reinforced through singing since the piano creates the notes for you and I think the ear gets lazy.

I think I want to do it this singing to improve my bad hearing 
So when I sing in G major I keep out with do re mi insted of sol la etc right?
Thank you