do you ever feel you are wasting your practice time?

[bonjing]

I practice everyday at least 30 mins or more and during the weekends at least 2 hours. But when i have my piano lesson, I still have some trouble and some pieces takes me a long time eventhough i really did practice the piece.

[guendola]

Good question! There are few good threads about pracitising efficiently on this forum. I for example spend way too much time enjoying the parts that I can play instead of practising what I can't play yet. But when I concentrate a few minutes a day on each part that I can't play yet, I get on really fast or I realise that there is something wrong that I have to sort out with my teacher first. It won't take you long while browsing through the other threads to get the big picture but it might be hard to change your practising accordingly.

Besides, sometimes it can take months to learn a piece. In that case it is good to learn a few simple extra pieces just to get the feeling of some achievement at least - and perhaps some nice repertoire for special occasions such as a nice girl on a dull party with a piano, grandfather (who will pay the grand piano eventually) comes for dinner, etc.

[counterpoint]

eventhough i really did practice the piece.

Okay, students often say, they do practise. But it's not at all clear what "practise" means 

If you want to make a progress, you should be able to name exactly, what the concrete progress on that day was. Something like "the dynamics are more varied now", "I found better fingering for several difficult parts", "the sound is clearer now", "the atmosphere of the piece gets clearer", "the rhythm is more natural", "the fingers/hands/arms are more relaxed now", "I found out, where exacxtly to press the pedal and where to lift it" etc. etc.

"I have practised" is such a void statement.

[keypeg]

Expanding on what Counterpoint said, if you are to name specific accomplishments of the day, chances are that you also need to name the specific goals you have in mind for the day and for the week.  Your goal is not to play Piece Y better.  It is to accomplish a specific thing in piece Y or even in your playing.   When you practice, focus on that specific thing.  Before you practice, decide how you are going to approach reaching that specific thing. 

For example, I have a piece with a series of runs that crescendo.  They were bumpy.  I also began learning to play a scale, and getting the thumb-under and movement of the hand going smoothly.  My goal became smooth playing of the scale, and coordinating the thumb-under etc. part and I worked in that in particular for the week.  The runs passages in the piece are getting the same treatment, separately from the piece, and are then knitted back into the piece.

The accomplishment is no longer "I can play Piece Y better - um, can I?", but "I can play the runs in Piece Y smoothly, and they are no longer bumpy because I can move from one position to the next easily now that my fingers know what to do.

By the same token, your teacher is probably looking for similar things, rather than a lovely piece as a whole, and may have given you such goals: "more even tempo" etc.  When you are given goals such as "even tempo", you may ask your teacher for ways of practicing for that.

[gyzzzmo]

If you really want a good learning curve, you should have a good look at your own playing, and try finding out what your technical weaknesses are.
Then find a good etude who handles that problem and work your ass of on that one

If you think you handled most weaknesses enough, go work on a serious piece and handle every difficulty you encounter on the stated above. Thats mainly it i gues

gyzzzmo

[guendola]

If you really want a good learning curve, you should have a good look at your own playing, and try finding out what your technical weaknesses are.
Then find a good etude who handles that problem and work your ass of on that one

If you think you handled most weaknesses enough, go work on a serious piece and handle every difficulty you encounter on the stated above. Thats mainly it i gues

gyzzzmo

Gyzzzmo, lets hope that his teacher gives him such exercises! Bonjings worry was that he(she?) didn't use his practice time well, learning the stuff that he is supposed to learn. I pointed out that one should concentrate on the parts of a piece that need to be improved and counterpoint and keypeg put that into more detail. And really, I think that it doesn't even occur to many  teachers that their students need to learn practising as well!

[slobone]

Also, frankly, at 1/2 hour a day your progress is going to be slow, even with extra time on the weekends. Is there any way you can increase it to an hour? I would call that the absolute minimum daily requirement. 2 hours a day is even better, then I can almost guarantee you will see good results if you use your time well.

[guendola]

Also, frankly, at 1/2 hour a day your progress is going to be slow, even with extra time on the weekends. Is there any way you can increase it to an hour? I would call that the absolute minimum daily requirement. 2 hours a day is even better, then I can almost guarantee you will see good results if you use your time well.

Half an hour can be a lot if used wisely! Spend 5 minutes to warm up, then work on the hardest part of the piece for the rest of the time - or two hard parts. Next day repeat the hardest part a few times at a convenient (slow) tempo where you don't do mistakes, then concentrate on the next part. This process will speed up gradually because everyday you get an easier part, meaning that you can do up to four, maybe even five parts after a few days. Every single day there will be an improvement. There is virtually no reason to play through the whole piece every day  because doing so usually means that you are practising mistakes instead of the right thing.

[bonjing]

after i practiced i always feel i did a good job and already worked on my mistakes but during my lesson it didn't turn out so well. I also get scared when i have my piano lesson. I don't know why. I feel different or confident when i'm alone practicing than get nervous when someone is listening. So sometimes i made a lot of mistakes.

[cherub_rocker1979]

I found this forum that has some great tips for pianists.

https://techniquetips.com/Piano%20Technique%20Forum.htm

[slobone]

Half an hour can be a lot if used wisely! Spend 5 minutes to warm up, then work on the hardest part of the piece for the rest of the time - or two hard parts. Next day repeat the hardest part a few times at a convenient (slow) tempo where you don't do mistakes, then concentrate on the next part. This process will speed up gradually because everyday you get an easier part, meaning that you can do up to four, maybe even five parts after a few days. Every single day there will be an improvement. There is virtually no reason to play through the whole piece every day  because doing so usually means that you are practising mistakes instead of the right thing.

I'm not convinced. Students need to spend a lot of time just to develop their muscles and their hand/arm/eye/brain coordination. Maybe a professional can maintain their performance level with half an hour a day, but I kind of doubt that too (at least if they're doing it on a regular basis).

And if practicing the whole piece means practicing mistakes, something is wrong somewhere...

[guendola]

I'm not convinced. Students need to spend a lot of time just to develop their muscles and their hand/arm/eye/brain coordination. Maybe a professional can maintain their performance level with half an hour a day, but I kind of doubt that too (at least if they're doing it on a regular basis).

And if practicing the whole piece means practicing mistakes, something is wrong somewhere...

Well, really practising the whole piece works pretty well the way I described. Of course I should have said "playing the whole piece over and over hoping that it gets better that way is useless".

As for building up muscles: Do you know why bodybuilders need so much time? They have so many muscles to build up. Training a single muscle is a matter of less than a minute per day.

[rc]

after i practiced i always feel i did a good job and already worked on my mistakes but during my lesson it didn't turn out so well. I also get scared when i have my piano lesson. I don't know why. I feel different or confident when i'm alone practicing than get nervous when someone is listening. So sometimes i made a lot of mistakes.

Yes, performance anxiety.  Everyone gets it, moreso when you've worked hard at something because it feels like there's more at stake, more to prove.

Everyone has to learn to control it, and it's the toughest kind of control.  What helps me is to take the attitude that mistakes will probably happen and to expect it, that helps me not be surprised when it does happen and also not treat it like a big deal.  Because treating it like a big deal tends to create more mistakes in performance, and what we want to do is brush past the mistake as if it never happened.

I try and relax as much as possible, and focus my mind on the music.  Not the bench, not my fingering, not that slipup that just happened...  The music that's being played and about to be played.

A useful exercise is when you practice imagine yourself playing in front of your teacher.  Make it as vivid as possible, imagine the room and the different piano, you teacher asking you to play.  Do it until you can feel the anxiety.  It's a good simulation if you can make it feel real, and a good way to practice dealing with nerves.

...And of course being prepared, by having put in as much quality practice as you can.  It's a gradual process of refining your approach to practicing.  I'm ALWAYS trying to make practice more efficient.

Also think if there are things outside of music that can effect your practice:  getting good sleep? eating right?  Not being overworked and stressed?

[solitudewithin]

Once i felt that way. It is the goals you set and how consistent you are with keeping your plan running that make you never waste any practise time. So think what you want to do before you actually do it. It sounds easy...but trust me its not!
Search for Berhard's post in this matter, i found his advices VERY useful and i learned a lot of things that made my practice time fun and more productive!

[Bob]

I think there's a point where you can level off.  You know when.

Although, it does take time for the body to adjust and develop.  It might not be mental strain anymore, but the body might be getting a workout still.

I really wonder how many "six month" pieces people should be working on though.  When it's at the expense of reading music, I really wonder.

[meli]

Hi, I know how you feel. In your case, could it be that you are not clear as to what it is you need to accomplish in that practice session instead of 'playing it better'. This is wierd, but the more I think 'small' e.g. a few bars, fingering in this passage, that chord doesn't sound right, and focus on those itsy bitsy parts of the piece thats giving me the hardest time  it actually saved me alot of time! Of course, I love to play the whole piece, but I save the best for last, sort of like a reward for my little accomplishments in that practice session Oh yes, I like guendola's idea on pretending your teaching is listening, it helps with performance anxiety during your lesson, or why not try the composer himself? Also, don't be too hard on yourself, we all make mistakes, the point is figure out what it is, and try to use your practice time not to repeat them!

[slobone]

Oh yes, I like guendola's idea on pretending your teaching is listening, it helps with performance anxiety during your lesson, or why not try the composer himself?

I usually assume the neighbors are listening. Which is crazy, since they're never home during my practice hours, and their musical taste runs to heavy metal. But it still keeps running through my head, "I bet they liked that one... oops, I hope nobody caught that mistake... do they start hating me after the 10th, 20th, or hundredth repetition of the same passage?"...

[guendola]

As for stage fright, that's not necessarily the same as "teacher fright". Stage fright is a matter of getting used to concentrate on the music while slowly sinking into the ground (once you master that, you will rise again).

Teacher fright usually results from lies - to him or to yourself. Be frank with both of you.  A good teacher is your best friend when it comes to piano playing and he can as well help to overcome frustration and bad discipline, if you ask him to.

And when you screw up with a piece that you played well at home, it might happen because you feel too secure now you can play it. But security comes from routine and routine takes time. On top of that, you are excited and that adds insecurity as well. So, if you are in the mood to show, how well you can play something, screwing up is almost automatic. The day you can play a piece really well won't be excitement at all because you won't notice unless someone else tells you. Oh, and read between the lines, I am not good at explaining details.

[slobone]

I agree guendola, and I might add that a little bit of nervousness when you play for your teacher can be a good thing. It will make you more alert, and prepare you for the time when you'll play in front of total strangers (if you ever plan to do that). Immunize you, so to speak.

[ryanyee]

well yeah, when i'm unable to manage a simple piece like the first movement of the italian concerto after practising for like 4 months.

[pianochick93]

well yeah, when i'm unable to manage a simple piece like the first movement of the italian concerto after practising for like 4 months.

Then find a simpler piece and work your way up. If you are spending four months practicing it hard, then it is either too hard for you or you are doing something seriously wrong.

[ryanyee]

i think i prefer to think that my technique isn't even at the basic level yet. of course my playing doesn't sound like some idiot who's banging on the piano. it's just some passages which i just can't seem to play steadily and the easiest piece i'm willing to play is shostakovich's prelude in a major. i just hate anything that's easy and yet not appealing to me, which is almost everything. yes i know i'm too close minded. that's just me.