Not enough Passion!

[Essyne]

Okay, so I have trouble internalizing pieces that I'm not passionate about - I'm sure that this is not a new phenomenon -  -  - what can you do to really feel and express emotion that isn't there in the first place??

Thanks - no one I know can give me a good, solid answer 

[m19834]

What is passion ?

[guendola]

Well, become passionate then. Passion is not a miracle and you decide if you want to be passionate or not. And this passion should be about playing piano in general! Then analise the music you want to play and do some experiments with expression. Eventually you will get an idea what could be exciting for others, if not for you. Take that idea and be a good actor. Expressing his own emotions is not really the job of a classical pianist.

[solitudewithin]

The best thing to do is to find pieces that you really want to play. Then again there are those pieces that they are ok for us, but we don't feel them quite awesome as the other ones. If you are going to play them, try to find things that you might find interesting. Or maybe a different interpretation. I think its ok to play it without "passion" as long as you play it correctly, with the right dynamics and rhythm.

[keypeg]

Is playing a piece an act of feeling an emotion and expressing that felt emotion through the feeling?  Is it the creation of emotion?  Must that emotion be felt in order to create it?

[gyzzzmo]

Maybe you should start listening to music of that type, that way you could get the 'feeling' and start putting yourself into that type of music. That way i started getting a decent 'passion' for playing Bach.

gyzzz

[Essyne]

hmmm . . . thanks, guys - y'all really gave me a lot to think about

I guess what I was trying to say was that I can LEARN the music, but I don't really KNOW it because I can't relate to what the composer was trying to express. . . if that makes any sense at all.

It is interesting that interpretation is NOT one of the duties of a classical pianist, and thank you for pointing that out to me. I've never really thought about it like that before.

It's not that I don't "want to play" the music, it's just that it feels UNFINISHED - I feel that way after every piece that I "complete" - - - it's never what I wanted it to be - - - It's never quite what I believe the composer was trying to express. . . It just falls. a little. short.

You gave me a lot to mull over/contemplate - Thanks!



Appreciate it!

Essyne

[sarrasani]

>Thanks - no one I know can give me a good, solid answer 

 A radical but reasonable change of view: agricultural activities, or to escavate in a mine.
Sometimes helps...
If you see my videos, passion is in good and pleasurable evidence.
All best

[Essyne]

A radical but reasonable change of view: agricultural activities, or to escavate in a mine.

. . . what? (not being rude, just don't understand what you're saying)

[sarrasani]

. . . what? (not being rude, just don't understand what you're saying)

Instead of waiting for the passion that doesn't come,  to try a different career.

[shortyshort]

I don't even think about learning a piece if I don't love it.  

Guess I'm lucky.  

But, I always choose pieces that are much to difficult for me.  

[keypeg]

Essyne, do you have the same quandary about vocal music?  Is it possible that you are trying to find the same thing in piano music that you find in vocal music?  Could this be a starting point for your explorations?  Also, have you been taught to analyze and interpret music so that you know how to approach it to make it expressive and meaningful?

I would think, though, that it would be a good idea to take some piano lessons with a piano teacher who is a pianist, rather than a vocalist who can play a piano, so that you can get more into a piano mentality and technique.

[Essyne]

Essyne, do you have the same quandary about vocal music? Is it possible that you are trying to find the same thing in piano music that you find in vocal music?

a DEFINATE no! vocally, my interpretation, etc. is GREAT (to you-know-where w/ modesty . . .  ) - piano is, well, a different story. . .

I would think, though, that it would be a good idea to take some piano lessons with a piano teacher who is a pianist, rather than a vocalist who can play a piano, so that you can get more into a piano mentality and technique.

lol, yeah - DEFINATELY coming to that conclusion 

I recently switched studios w/ my voice, and my teacher was less than pleased, so don't worry, there's no chance I'll be going back to her. I am searching for a piano teacher (contacting grad students, etc.), but so far, everyone is booked until the end of the semester. It's one of those funky, "in-between" stages that can be quite frustrating.

Thank you so much for your EXTREME patience - The piano is quite different from the voice (as I'm learning  ) in expression, "mentality," AND "technique." You have taught me more in 2 days than I have learned in an entire year!!! As I said before : "Duly noted and GREATLY appreciated!"

[Bob]

Practice the emotions into the piece.

Do the piece, then drop it/forget it, and return later so you have the work done and can focus on expression.  If you work, work, work on it, sometimes you engrain that work attitude into the spirt of the piece for you.  If you lean it and forget it and then revive it, you can leave all those work attitudes off the piece the next time around.

[guendola]

Is playing a piece an act of feeling an emotion and expressing that felt emotion through the feeling?  Is it the creation of emotion?  Must that emotion be felt in order to create it?

Sort of yes, sort of no. You should know how it feels and how to express it. You can't hold a convincing speech if you don't know what you are talking about and for playing piano it is the same.

I think there are two ways of interpretation in music, similar to the two ways of acting. There are actors who play their role and there are actors who change the role until it suits them. I wouldn't say one way is better than the other but the first way is certainly closer to the ideas of the author. And when you don't have passion for a piece, it is the better approach.

Now, for understanding the emotional "message" of a piece, you can do this:

- go through all possible emotions and see what seems right
- read a lot about the music
- play in your head without piano and try to listen
- sing the melody
- dream about the music (of course that's not your decision)

And don't think when doing this! Emotion is not connected to words and you don't need to name it. Conveying emotions in music is rather a feedback of your knowledge of emotions with the music. If that feedback is present, it will create the necessary expressions automatically. This process is also called empathy.

[keypeg]

I did an experiment.  I played a piece and "felt" it while playing it.  I dare say that what I felt was convincingly felt by me - I was moved by it.  The second time I played it, I paid attention to the dynamics I had worked into it - a pause here, a crescendo of notes flowing one into the other over there - just as I had practised and planned when first understanding what the piece meant on all levels.  I asked the person listening to me whether either of the two versions had moved him more than the other.

The playing in which I felt less emotion, but created more emotional effect through technical devices, was much more moving than when I played and was personally moved.  A third person came along and heard a recording of when I had first played the piece  upon first discovering it, and felt it in a raw way.  Something in that first version was lost and had to come back into the piece.

So for me it seems that there is a lot of artifice which comes from deliberately planning out dynamics, getting technical control, working with loud, soft, texture, not duration etc. for the purpose of creating an emotional effect. And then there is the part that is felt instinctively, and both have to be there.

The actor can feel and take on the character, but he also knows how to use his body, how much space to take up and how to move, as well as what qualities to put into his voice, how to breathe - same thing maybe.

If you are a singer learning to play the piano, do you need to learn to redirect your breath into your arms and fingertips since breath is the soul of a singer's movement?  Do you put a song in your right hand and create the illusion that it is not a percussion instrument, while making an orchestra out of the left?

[popdog]

I think this is quite a difficult question to answer.  The questions about the role of a pianist are interesting - is it his/her job to play a interpretation which strives to be as faithful as possibly to the composers intentions or to express emotions though their interpretation?  For me it's neither although certainly draws aspects from both. 

The best thing to do is to find pieces that you really want to play.

I don't even think about learning a piece if I don't love it. 

Guess I'm lucky. 

But, I always choose pieces that are much to difficult for me. 

I think this is the most important thing, especially having been forced to play a program for examination which I was not particularly fond of.  The solo piano repertoire is unfathomably large, which makes it all the absurd to settle for a piece you don't enjoy playing.  If you feel nothing when you listen to a recording (given the recording is decent) of it, or play through it, how can you hope to feel passionate about it through your rendition? 

I heard Listz's transcription of Saint-Saen's Dance Macabre on the radio going to Uni this morning.  There are some passages during a climax (about 8 minute mark I think), in particular a ascending and descending arpeggio passage and the subsequent octave passages which I have had in the back of my mind all day - I really began to appreciate the incredible tension that Liszt created with these passages.  The specifics don't matter, the important thing is that I could imagine how satisfying these passages would be to play... I listen to them in my head right now and get a somewhat diluted sense of the same thing.  This is what I think you need to feel towards a piece to be able to play it best.  Of course you can fake playing pieces you don't really like - but if you don't enjoy doing it then why play piano?

I think Bob's point about taking a break from a piece is a good one, but probably only necessary if the practice has been particular demanding and 'work' driven as he says, ie. learning/mastering difficult passages. 

Happy playing,

popdog.

[Essyne]

If you are a singer learning to play the piano, do you need to learn to redirect your breath into your arms and fingertips since breath is the soul of a singer's movement?  Do you put a song in your right hand and create the illusion that it is not a percussion instrument, while making an orchestra out of the left?

. . . wow . . . i've never even thought about that!

thanks so much!