Digital Recording Devices

[Essyne]

Okay, believe it or not, there IS a legit. reason that I'm getting on the forum (other than informing you that the filter doesn't block it  )

I know that this topic has already been discussed, but technology tends to change, so I thought I'd bring it up again. . . .

My professor wants me to purchase a digital recording device that can record straight to a CD-R (CD-RW?? IDK - *technologically impaired*). . . . Is there anything that you would recommend? Price is not so much an issue ((well, as long as it's reasonable   ) I'm really just looking for something that's easy and "transportable."

Another girl had a recording device that hooked onto her iPod Nano, but I don't have an iPod and am a bit skeptical regarding them; but not sure if you'd recommend me going out and buying one, then purchasing the device. . .

Once again, just looking for something practical, but need it to be a good quality/durable/having a long life span. . .

Thanks guys! Appreciate it!

~Essyne~

[Petter]

Im technologically impaired aswell but I got myself one of these and Im quite happy about it. Bascially it´s a digital dictaphone. The inbuilt mic satisfy my needs but if you´re really picky I suppose you could buy a better one and plug it in.

[rachfan]

In my research I ran across the Roland CD-2 which can be either tabletop or portable, and  can record either using flash card technology or directly to CDs.  It sells for about $696.00, so is even relatively inexpensive.  You can see it at https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Roland+recorders&go=Go%2521 .  Maybe this will suit your purpose.

[Essyne]

It looks good, and I have been happy w/ previous Roland purchases. . .

What about Marantz products? Are they good? I read in reviews that when recording onto a CD there's a slight "whirring" sound w/ the Roland product - - - is this going to be something that I will generally get for an "inexpensive" ( ) recorder?

The digital flash card technology sounds interesting, but what are the benefits of it? And how do I tell if my computer has flash capability? (I doubt that it does, but the new laptop may . . . )

Thanks!

~Essyne~

[rachfan]

Hi essyne,

I don't know about that whirring sound in the Roland, so can't really comment on it.  When I was doing my research, I wasn't interested in creating CDs, so when I was considering the Roland, I was more interested in its flash card recording option instead. 

The evolution of recorders has basically gone from wire recorders to reel-to-reel tape to cassette tape to DAT to mini-disks and CDs to flash cards to DSD (direct stream digital using 1 bit 5.6MHz) in that order.  Whereas for my particular purpose I didn't wish to make CDs, I dropped further consideration of the Roland and looked at Marantz for awhile; but once I learned about DSD technology, I left Marantz behind and purchased the Korg MR-1000. 

If you happen to have a digital camera at home, the card that you insert for memory is flash card memory.  The only difference for a recorder application is that the cards have far more storage capacity by necessity.  Like a camera, the recording flash cards go into the recorder, not your PC.  Transferring music files from the recorder to the PC is no problem.  Most recorders for transfers use a USB 2.0 cable (if that turns out to be the case, get a good one from Belkin with gold connectors to preserve quality), or FireWire.  One thing about FireWire though--if you have a Dell PC (like I do), I've read that FireWire and Dell do not get along well.  My Korg uses a USB. 20 cable.  Most recorders produce files in DIFF (for DSD), WAV or some other formats.  If you need to convert one of those into mp3 format, you can download and buy a very cheap software on-line to do that job easily.

Marantz does offer fine products.  You're probably looking at their CDR420.  I didn't examine that unit, as it's CD-based.  I was instead considering the PMD670 flash card unit until I shifted my attention to the newer DSD technology.  That CRD310 you have in mind is about $700, which seems reasonable, while the CDR420 is more like $1,200.  This choice comes down to a large degree to budget as well as defined needs, decision on technology, and functionalities.

You might look on www.sweetwater.com.  There is an 800# there you can call to speak to their sales engineers, whom I found to be quite helpful in discussing products and narrowing choices down to best match an application.

[minor9th]

This Sony unit certainly sounds good:

https://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008/01/10/sony-pcm-d50-recorder-review.html

[Essyne]

After some research, I have decided on the *drum roll, please* Roland CD-2! * I really like the Flash capability/think it'll be a lot of fun, and the CD recording is, of course, a must.

Thanks so much for your advice!

I'll let you know how it goes! (3 days!!)

~Ess~

[Essyne]

I am taking the recorder to a friend tomorrow to record an accompaniment, but am not sure where to place it - - - where would you recommend placing it? (grand piano, JUST piano, as I will layer my voice over it later. . . . ) We're on a bit of a tight schedule, so I need to get in, set it up, and get out - (no real "test runs" / re-recording).

Thanks in advance.

~Ess~

[tompilk]

Im technologically impaired aswell but I got myself one of these and Im quite happy about it. Bascially it´s a digital dictaphone. The inbuilt mic satisfy my needs but if you´re really picky I suppose you could buy a better one and plug it in.

is there any chance you could post a sample of one of your piano recordings? I'm on the verge of buying one but i've only heard the "official" samples, which I presume are fixed to appear better than real life... I'd love to hear it, because £200 is a lot to shell out on...

[a-sharp]

Another vote for the Edirol R09 

[tompilk]

Another vote for the Edirol R09 

do you have piano samples too? id love to hear them...

[rachfan]

Hi Eyssne,

I recognize that the Roland is portable.  If you have to travel to your friend's place, then you'll have to rely on the internal mics.  They won't be bad, but they likely won't be up to the quality of external mics either.  Look in the specifications literature to see if the built-in mics are parallel to one another or in XY configuration.  If parallel (A-B configuration), try putting the unit on a stand about 6 feet in front of the curve of the open piano and see what you get for sound there.  If XY, put the Roland about 3 feet away from the piano.     

In setting up for your own home recordings, the best results will be achieved with two matched external mics using the XLR connections on the unit.  For recording piano, the best choice is two small (not large) diaphragm condenser mics with omni-directional (not cartioid) capsules.  You also need very good quality mic cables like Monster brand.  A couple of mic stands are highly desirable too.  To record classical music, place the two mics 6 to 8 feet in front of the open grand piano.  They must be the same distance from the piano, and parallel, side by side.  The separation between them should be 12 inches, no more, no less.  You can incline the mics to point them toward the top of the open lid (sight with your eye along the length of the mic).  All of this is known as A-B configuration. 

Avoid XY configuration with two cartioid mics crossed at a 90 degree angle.  That is for close-in recording of jazz and pop music, where they like to capture the percussiveness of hammers on strings.  Close-in mic-ing captures music just being formed.  A-B away from the piano captures fully formed music.  XY is not as good for classical music. 

[Essyne]

Thank you so much rachfan. Greatly appreciated.

~Ess~

[minor9th]

What's the trick to getting clean edits on home gear? I use ProTools M-Box, and I find it hard to determine the exact beginning of a passage that I want to edit. I either get a repeated or a clipped note! This system is very finicky about the computer it's attached to, so I plan to ditch it and buy a portable recorder, from which I guess  I dump the .wav files onto my computer for editing. I hear that the Sony D50 comes with Sound Forge--is that a decent/easy editing program?

[a-sharp]

do you have piano samples too? id love to hear them...

You mean - to showcase the R09, or me? LOL

Actually - I would be happy to... but my friend has borrowed mine & not given it back yet (likely excuse huh ) ... Actually that's the truth - but also the truth - not sure I'm willing to record myself just yet & put it up on the internet! OK - someday....

[quantum]

What's the trick to getting clean edits on home gear? I use ProTools M-Box, and I find it hard to determine the exact beginning of a passage that I want to edit. I either get a repeated or a clipped note! This system is very finicky about the computer it's attached to, so I plan to ditch it and buy a portable recorder, from which I guess  I dump the .wav files onto my computer for editing. I hear that the Sony D50 comes with Sound Forge--is that a decent/easy editing program?

Use both your ear and your eyes.  You need to zoom the wave form in close enough to find the start of the note.  Continually test small changes in the cursor position until you find the exact point.  It also helps if snapping is not activated. 

If you find that making a cut at the exact start of the note creates a pop due to a non-zero crossing, you can create your own zero-crossing by doing a fade in/out on a very minute part of the wave.  You need to be zoomed in a lot to do this.