Help..Questions

[saritmiki]

Hey guys I am keeping with the self studying..

In a major scale, say the interval between note C and D means second? or whole?
It confuses me and also what is an octave? 8 notes?

Interval is it change of tone between 2 notes or something else?? like whole, semi tone..

[ramseytheii]

Hey guys I am keeping with the self studying..

In a major scale, say the interval between note C and D means second? or whole?
It confuses me and also what is an octave? 8 notes?

Interval is it change of tone between 2 notes or something else?? like whole, semi tone..

Whole tones are also called major seconds.  A minor second, or half-tone, is the distance between C and D-flat, or E and F.  Whole Tone and Major Second means the same thing.  When you talk about intervals, you usually have to add an adjective: "major/minor second," "major/minor third," "major/minor sixth or seventh."  "Fourth" and "Fifth" is usually taken to mean "Perfect" fourth or fifth, as opposed to an augmented or diminuted one of these.

An octave is the eighth note of the scale, which repeats the first.

I don't understand your last question!  An interval is a description of the distance between two notes.  For instance, a "fifth" is an interval, which is the distance from C to G, or F to B-flat.

Walter Ramsey

[saritmiki]

Whole tones are also called major seconds.  A minor second, or half-tone, is the distance between C and D-flat, or E and F.  Whole Tone and Major Second means the same thing.  When you talk about intervals, you usually have to add an adjective: "major/minor second," "major/minor third," "major/minor sixth or seventh."  "Fourth" and "Fifth" is usually taken to mean "Perfect" fourth or fifth, as opposed to an augmented or diminuted one of these.

An octave is the eighth note of the scale, which repeats the first.
Thanks..

I don't understand your last question!  An interval is a description of the distance between two notes.  For instance, a "fifth" is an interval, which is the distance from C to G, or F to B-flat.

Walter Ramsey

Thanks for helping Walter!

I didnt know that Whole tones are called also major seconds..
So Whole tones= major seconds and A minor second= half tone as I understand now so if I want to write the distance between D to E on a mayor scale I will call the distance Major second? so how it will be with a minor scale? it confusing..


About the last question thanks this is what I meant, I am sorry my english is not that good:)

[ramseytheii]

Thanks for helping Walter!

I didnt know that Whole tones are called also major seconds..
So Whole tones= major seconds and A minor second= half tone as I understand now so if I want to write the distance between D to E on a mayor scale I will call the distance Major second? so how it will be with a minor scale? it confusing..


About the last question thanks this is what I meant, I am sorry my english is not that good:)

THat's right, whole tones = major seconds, and half tones = minor seconds.

In scales, the first step is always the same, a major second.  It's the third step that counts.  In a D major scale, the first three notes are D-E-F#, which are whole tones apart.  In a d minor scale, the first three notes are D-E-F natural; the distance between E and F-natural is a half step.

Walter Ramsey

[saritmiki]

THat's right, whole tones = major seconds, and half tones = minor seconds.

In scales, the first step is always the same, a major second.  It's the third step that counts.  In a D major scale, the first three notes are D-E-F#, which are whole tones apart.  In a d minor scale, the first three notes are D-E-F natural; the distance between E and F-natural is a half step.

Walter Ramsey

Thanks Walter and if I want to write the distance between C to F then I write 2 major seconds and a minor second?

Have a nice day

[pianochick93]

Thanks Walter and if I want to write the distance between C to F then I write 2 major seconds and a minor second?

Have a nice day

That would be a perfect 4th.

[saritmiki]

Thanks Pianochick now I got the point for sure

[keypeg]

The easiest way is to use the C major scale as a reference, imagining that your "major" or "perfect" intervals are the white keys counting from C, and your minor intervals are a semitone below that.

First you just count your intervals "generically" without wondering if it is major, minor, etc.  You do that by counting how many notes are involved.
A to B has two notes: 1A 2B so it is a second.
A to C has three notes, ABC, there are three of them, so it is a third.
A to G has seven notes, ABCDEFG, so it is a third.

For major, minor, and perfect:
The following have a "perfect" instead of "major: unison, fourth, fifth, octave.  All the rest are majors or minors.

Looking at it by using C major as a reference:

CD is a second, all white keys, and it's a major second.  You will notice there is a whole tone (two semitones) between.  One semitone less, CDb, and you have a minor second.

If you go up three notes from the tonic, CE, you have a third, and this is your major third.  There is a whole tone between C and D, and another whole tone between D and E.  That is so for every major scale.  The distance of these intervals will always be the same for a major third.  It is also a good idea to get used to what any major third sounds like so you can recognize it.
If you go down a semitone, then you have a minor third: CEb.

Counting 4 notes up from the tonic, you have CF.  This is a ** Perfect"* fourth rather than a "major fourth".  There is no such thing as a major fourth.  The "perfects" have special roles in the structure of music.  Notice that there is a semitone involved.  From C to D there is a whole tone, from D to E there is a whole tone, but from E to F there is a semitone.  That is your interval for any P4 (perfect fourth).  Some music or fanfare goes "ta da!" in a perfect fourth.  It is an easy sound to remember. 

For the "perfects", if you go down a semitone, you don't have a minor, you have a "diminished.  "Perfects" are special.  If you go down a semitone, so that instead of CF you play CFb for your diminished 4th, you are actually playing CE, because a semitone down from F lands you on E.  If it is written in the music as CFb, it is called a diminished 4th, but you play it like CE which is a major third.  It's only a different note on paper in theory.

Counting 5 notes up from the tonic, you have CG, which is a Perfect fifth.  The G is a whole tone away from the the F of the P4.  This is your interval for all P5's anywhere.  It is the beginning of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, and lots of music moves up to a fifth.

A semitone down give you a diminshed 5th, which happens to be the same thing as going up a semitone from P4, which would be called an augmented 4th.  That interval is known as a tritone (does anyone know why?) and it was considered evil (!) in the middle ages.  It is an uncomfortable sound, but I think it's becuase of its unique properties.

Major 6 is C to A, and those intervals will tell you what all M6's are like.  A semitone down gives you a minor 6.  C to Ab is a minor 6.  So is C# to A.

Major 7 is C to B, and a minor 7 is C to Bb.

The "majors" are all keys that would belong to a scale going from the lower note as the key name, and the intervals all are the distance apart as indicated in the example with C major.

If C to F is a P4, so is F to Bb.  The interval is the same, but also, Bb is the fourth note of the F major scale and that's a fast way of checking.

After maors and minors there are augmented and diminished intervals.  An augmented interval is one semitone higher than a major or perfect interval.  A diminished interval is one semitone lower than a minor or perfect, or two semitones (a whole tone) lower than a major interval.   Your majors and minors are your reference so it's best to know them first.

For example, CE is a major third.  In C Eb, the Eb is a semitone lower, and the interval is a minor third.  But if you had C Ebb, the Ebb is two semitones lower (one whole tone), and you get a diminished third.  But guess what? Ebb is actually the D on the piano, so your diminshed third sounds like a major second.  It only makes sense in theory "grammar".  Ebb and D are called "enharmonic equivalents" which means you hear the same pitch or note, but it has a different note name. 

Other enharmonic equivalents are Eb and D#, Cb and B, G# and Ab etc.  This is important when you are naming intervals.  C to Eb is a minor third because three notes are involved.  C to D# is an augmented second, because only two notes can be counted.  It is augmented, because C to D is a major second, and a semitone up is augmented.

That's a kind of overview.  It takes a while to go through it bit by bit.

[saritmiki]

wow thanks a lot Keypeg! I am reading it right now and with the english it takes time I wanted to ask what is a "perfect"? and if I will see other word I dont understand I will tell u thanks!!!

[pianochick93]

COrrect me if I'm wrong, but a perfect is when it is the same in both a minor and a major scale. So a perfect 4th would be the same in both a major and minor scale. As would a 5th, and an Octave.

[slobone]

COrrect me if I'm wrong, but a perfect is when it is the same in both a minor and a major scale. So a perfect 4th would be the same in both a major and minor scale. As would a 5th, and an Octave.

No, scales don't really have anything to do with it. The name of an interval is determined first by the letter names of the two notes, then by whether one of the notes has been modified up or down.

So Ab up to Db is always a perfect fourth, regardless of the key you're in. Ab to D natural is an augmented fourth, and Ab to Dbb (double flat) is a diminished fourth. This last interval sounds the same as Ab to C, but if it's written that way it's called a major third.

[pianochick93]

No, scales don't really have anything to do with it. The name of an interval is determined first by the letter names of the two notes, then by whether one of the notes has been modified up or down.

So Ab up to Db is always a perfect fourth, regardless of the key you're in. Ab to D natural is an augmented fourth, and Ab to Dbb (double flat) is a diminished fourth. This last interval sounds the same as Ab to C, but if it's written that way it's called a major third.

Oh, thankyou.

I have learned something new now.

[keypeg]

Actually, it turns out that the P4 and P5 and P8 and P1 are the same in a major scale and its tonic minor.  But a M2 is also the same in a major scale and its tonic minor so that can't be a property of perfectness.

I got curious about what distinguishes perfect intervals.  We know that the tonic, subdominant, dominant, and octave have special roles, and from the tonic they are also the perfects, but is that it?  The other intervals do not have as strong roles.

But looking at inversions I think I got what is different.  All inversions add up to 9 and are each other's opposite.  An inverted maj2 is a min7 (2 + 7 = 9), and an inverted min 6 is a maj 3 (6 + 3 = 9).

But supposing that you decided to call P4 and P5 "major".  If you invert a "major 5" do you have a "minor 4"?  No, it is not minor.  So it doesn't follow the same rules.  If you invert a perfect, its counterpart is also perfect.  An inverted P4 is P5 and vice versa.  An inverted perfect unison is a perfect octave.

Has anyone learned an official reason why perfects are perfects?

[pianochick93]

Has anyone learned an official reason why perfects are perfects?

Perhaps it is because they sound 'right'
A second in my opinion doesn't sound very perfect, but a 5th and an octave do, I can't remember what a 4th sounds like...

[keypeg]

I am pretty sure that it is because of the properties that I mentioned.