Do you feel your teacher try to make as much money as possible from you?

[nyonyo]

Hi all,

From the third lesson, my teacher keeps insisting that I need to take once a week lesson. Currently, I take lesson every other week. I am an adult who still work so that I cannot commit myself to practice 3 to 4 hours a day to catch up with the material. In addition, his expectation is that I can finish one movement of, say, Beethoven Sonata in a week. Finish means play roughly. It is not easy to do that for me. He is a concert pianist, so everything is easy for him.


His fee is also not cheap, $80 per hour. I feel he really needs money so that he forces me to take more lesson, regardless whether it makes sense or not for my situation.

Do you have this kind of teacher?

[keypeg]

Lessons are usually weekly because it is an ongoing process, and if too much time lapses between lessons you may slip in what you have learned to do, and then the next lesson must be spent in undoing the damage.  Weekly lessons are standard.  The $80 per lesson seems on the high side.  Perhaps this teacher is highly qualified and can deliver a lot in each lesson, if a student is also willing to cooperate.  That means cooperating in the lesson and practicing a sufficient amount of time as well as effectively every day between lessons.  If you are not doing your part, or you cannot do your part, then it may be a waste of money.   I find it insulting to suggest that a teacher is trying to squeeze his students for money by asking for a standard commitment.  Yes, it is a business relationship.  A service is traded for money because teachers need to pay their bills like everyone else.  In our world those who have greater expertise or who are in high demand will charge more than those who have less expertise, have invested less years in the training of their profession, or who are in less demand.

It is also a reality that if all his other students take weekly lessons, your time slot represents a loss because it is only half filled.  He cannot find another student to also take biweekly lessons on alternate weeks.  That part is indeed an economic reality.

[Bob]

Do what you think is right.  If it's not worth the money, do every other week like you are.  If the teacher doesn't like it, tough.  I've heard of several adults doing that.  Because of their practice time, the cost of the lessons, and that they don't really need that much feedback like that.

Having a consistent income is a concern.  I can't see how that could not impact the situation and color the teacher's thinking.  If he wants that steady income, he can always find another adult student to plug in the other parallel time slot.

On the other hand, getting more ideas and input doesn't hurt either. 

[m19834]

First of all, there is a difference between a teacher who "really needs money" in the way that you put it, vs. a teacher "who really needs students" in the way that I think you intended your post.  Everybody "really needs money" in most modern societies and that's just the way it goes.  However, having enough students to allow a person to make money is another matter.  $80 per hour is not the kind of fee that a teacher charges if they "really need students" in order to make money, because there are already enough students who are willing to pay this rate, apparently, for him to feel confident in charging it (but then again, it does depend on where you live, too -- though you have suggested yourself that this rate is not "cheap," and I assume you have done your homework  ).

In terms of how often he is asking you to come, this seems like a separate matter in your case.  Some teachers have certain policies on how they use their time in terms of how a particular "spot" would be filled over the course of an entire month.  If that were the case, I would think he would have told you so at the very beginning, before you even signed on with him.  In your case, I believe he is thinking of you, and what you need in order to progress the most naturally and glean the most from what he has to offer.

Then again, perhaps he is just a total scammer .

In any event, to answer your question, no, I don't believe I have ever, ever, had a teacher who was charging me money that was not well-earned, and, in pretty much every case, I was willing to pay more than what they had ever asked of me.

[nyonyo]

He definitely performs at professional level , I have attended his recitals.
I agree that his tuition, as a concert pianist, is not outrages.

Undoing mistakes is also not the concern, I am always able to undo my mistake within minutes, because rarely made fatal mistakes both technical or interpretation.

My only concern is that why he cannot tell that it takes time for me to learn a new piece from scratch. I cannot do it in a week. Therefore, I came to the conclusion that he just wants my money. What will he teach me? I do not need to be taught how read the music, he just needs to change small things here and there. I wish I could find a teacher whom I can just take lesson whenever I want to or need to.

[keypeg]

So you are studying with someone who is an excellent performer.  Is he a good teacher?  Is he teaching you?  Why do you believe that he wants you to be able to master a piece of music in one week.  Has he said so?  Is this what he is teaching: pieces?  How long have you studied the piano?  Answers to these questions would help get a better picture.

[slobone]

I can't imagine there are many teachers who would expect an adult student to practice 3-4 hours a day. To go through a whole mov't of a Beethoven sonata the first week would be VERY rough indeed unless you're an excellent sight-reader, and I frankly can't see the point of it.

As for the money issue, well teachers are only human after all. Maybe he is greedy rather than conscientious. But one lesson per week is the norm, and wanting to see you that often isn't particularly unusual. There are plenty of good reasons for it that have nothing to do with money.

[keypeg]

I've read a little bit through your posts, Nyonyo, get a better picture.  It seems that you also teach piano, so I guess you have your own policies (number of lessons your students take per month).   It would also mean that you are not a beginner, and maybe not even an intermediate student anymore if you are teaching.  In your earlier posts I read that you want a teacher who is above all an excellent performer.  You want to learn from what he does, and not what he teaches  in words, if I got that right. I have the impression that you want this relationship to be very much on your terms, that he will give you what you feel is missing.  I don't think that you want a teacher who will teach systematically as far as technique or sequential lessons, but rather you want to work on pieces.  I'm trying to get a picture of your relationship and the kind of lessons you are having.

Slobone, my teacher expected both me, an adult, and my son preceding me in his beginning teens, to practice three hours.  That was the prefered minimum amount of time if at all possible.  This was not piano.

[Bob]

I suppose you could almost make a similar argument for taking lessons twice a week.


I am assuming you're doing an hour every two weeks though.  30 minutes is always tight, but 30 minutes every two weeks would be very tight.

[kimba1055]

Hi all,

From the third lesson, my teacher keeps insisting that I need to take once a week lesson. Currently, I take lesson every other week. I am an adult who still work so that I cannot commit myself to practice 3 to 4 hours a day to catch up with the material. In addition, his expectation is that I can finish one movement of, say, Beethoven Sonata in a week. Finish means play roughly. It is not easy to do that for me. He is a concert pianist, so everything is easy for him.


His fee is also not cheap, $80 per hour. I feel he really needs money so that he forces me to take more lesson, regardless whether it makes sense or not for my situation.

Do you have this kind of teacher?

fire him get some one else ,i got this teacher she used to charge me $80 for one hour ,i star it looking for one cheaper i found some one who i feel is more qualify then her and she only charge me $30 for 45 minutes,80 dollars is and insult for piano lessons

[keypeg]

In what manner is the $30 teacher more qualified than the $80 teacher? (curious)

[Bob]

Must have picked a better location?  lol

I've wondered about that.  Different teacher, would it matter?  Would you still end up making about the same amount of progress?

[thierry13]

At a certain level, you do not need pedagogy, but mastery. If he's able to charge 80$, and if he's a performing artist, he has good reasons to ask you to see him once a week. If he's a good concert pianist, he deserves the 80$.

[hyrst]

Nyonyo,
it seems to me that a good teacher-student relationship begins with trust and respect.  If you don't feel that for your teacher, perhaps you should be interviewing some other teachers - either to look at changing or to see the qualities in your own teacher.

I am sure your teacher deserves the fee he is asking, as a concert performer he probably gets many highly committed students who see the expense as an investment into their future. 

As a teacher, I have had adult students take lessons on demand or fortnightly.  But, the reality is that it is a sacrifice for the teacher - it is inconvenient.  Since my lessons are normally weekly, I tell adults up front that I cannot take them fortnightly during my peak teaching hours.  Maybe your teacher should have discussed this with you at the beginning. 

As far as practice, maybe you have a goal that isn't suiting your life style at present.  Perhaps think about your priorities and aims.  At the level of Beethoven Sonatas, the minimum you should be doing is 3 hours a day.  To play these pieces well technically, it would take you forever to play them well without that kind of committment - I know it isn't always possible to get that much done, but it is a reasonable expectation.

Maybe you need to talk your goals through with your teacher.  Are you being realistic?

I wouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly.  It seems you are doing yourself and your teacher a disservice. 

[nyonyo]

All,

Thank you for the feedbacks. I really appreciate.

I agreed that he deserves the $80, because he is definitely an excellent performer, not so sure about the other side of teaching aspects.

When somebody starts charging $80 per hour, his or her clientele will go down dramatically. The competition becomes very intense. Students who are willing to pay more than $60 per hour start becoming picky. It is hard to get students at that price range too. Therefore, the teachers also need to accomodate the students wish. It is different from charging $20 per hour, one will have a long list of students waiting.

I came to the conclusion because he can tell that I cannot keep up with the material  ( I do not practice enough), increasing the number of lesson is not the solution for an adult. I am able to read and practice by myself. I only need help with minor correction. Little children may need to engage more with the teacher because they usually do not know what to do. In addition, he told me that he will be out of the country in the summer, so that it is better if I take more lessons while he is here. Yet, he just assigned me four new pieces, 2 sonantas, 1 WTC, and 1 Chopin Nocturne. I do not even have time to practice all those 4 pieces at once....

[sarah the pianist]

.

[hyrst]

I often wonder exactly what it is I am paying my teacher for.  But, even if it is simply accountability, I think I need the coaching. 

However, I think I understand from that point of view how you are feeling.  I could not spend twice as much money as I do for having a supervisor - my teacher is also a constant performer and an international teacher.  (He selects students at auditions at several international conservatoriums and is sent to Paris, from Aus, several times a year to teach at the con.)

I sometimes find it frustrating that I do not receive explicit correction of technique - it is mostly interpretation and listening that I receive from him.  I wish I didn't have to struggle to 'accidentally' fall upon the right hand position, etc.  I think that hte discovery is an importatn part of the learning, unfortunately - esepecially since I can then understand my own students.  Also, the movement differneces are so fine at this level, and probably so individualised, maybe he is unable to give me more specific technical instructions.  All this does make me wodner if I am spending money in the right way.

However, I do not think this is my teacher's money grabbing.  He is doing his job and trying to help me and hold me accountable in the best way he knows at this level.  Although I sometimes wonder if the money is well spent, I never blame him.  (Only a few times I get frustrated because of talking or researching that I think has done nothing - but he frequently enough goes overtime to warrant taking this time.)

Maybe in these situations it is a matter of really working our what we can and want to do - communicate and find a teacher who hears and can work with what you are needing.  The understanding must be mutual - not jumping to conclusions.  There must be trust - otherwise you won't listen to anything they say if you're not sure, and then a teacher is a waste of money. 

Talk to your teacher honestly.  Let them know trhe pressure you feel under.  Talk about your goals.  If they don't think they can fit with that, and you can't fit with their suggestions, you might not be suited to one another - nobody's fault.

[slobone]

I might add that a teacher at an advanced level usually doesn't take just everybody who can afford to pay her fee. You also have to make a minimum commitment about how much practicing you're willing to do, and also to pass an initial audition as well. It could be almost like a teacher at a conservatory.

But I guess I stand corrected about practicing 3 hours a day. None of my teachers ever said they expected that, but maybe that's why I'm not any better than I am...

Incidentally, I saw an interesting report on 60 Minutes or somewhere about an airline pilot who's married to a concert pianist. After he met her, he took up the piano as a hobby, and now he practices 4-5 hours a day whenever his schedule permits. If he has a layover in another city, he goes to a local piano store and practices there (apparently some of them have private rooms you can rent). After several years of this, he's just about reached the point where his wife is willing to play simple duets with him...

[Bob]

I would guess the teacher is just doing what they think is right.  The solid flow of money is attractive too though.  If they do that for you, they have to do that for everyone if they want. 

They also want high achieving students.

It may be that the teacher doesn't have the concerpt of less than weekly lessons established in their mind.  They might not be comfortable with it. 

Do what's best for you.  If you don't want to pay, don't think it's worth it, or don't have enough time to practice enough to get your money's worth from the lessons, don't do weeklies.  It's your money.  The teacher can't force you.  If they don't want to go along with that, then they won't and you get another teacher. 

I did hear one of my college profs refer to students by what he did with their lesson money.  This student was his cable tv.  That student was his dining out.  I was a little insulted, esp after I figured out what I was.  I think he cared but it was also just business to him.  Still is apparently.  But I was surprised to hear him say he actually thought like that.  That thought has crossed my mind a few times -- Am I doing what's best for this student, or am I being influenced by the nice comfy feeling of having a little extra money?

Then again, just the contact time, an hour a week, that isn't really that much, so you're probably picking up something new each time no matter how much or little you practice.  To a certain extent.

[slobone]

Hmm, well I guess I'd rather hear my piano teacher say I was paying his utility bill than hear my shrink say I put his kids through college...

[nyonyo]

The funny thing is that my piano teacher always tells me the date of my next lesson. It means in his mind he always counts what my next lesson will be. He seems so look forward to teaching me. I know, for sure, he does not have many students outside his teaching job in a University. His main income is teaching at a university.

Tonight, I will have a lesson again with him. I had practiced hard for a week, there are some improvements, but the improvements do not warrant for a lesson yet. I am going to show to him what I can do for a week and tell him what I feel and I want to take lesson every other week. If he does not like it, I will find a new teacher. I found that there are actually many piano teachers with similar caliber and cost the same or even less.

[Bob]

He's probably looking out for your learning.  Although I suppose it may be your progress over whether it's the best thing for you or what you want. 

Professor income isn't always that high and they probably have some debt from their student loans in getting their doctorate.

Money can always be a factor, but I can see having a crop of successful students being a motivating factor too.

There has to be some reason he's teaching beyond his uni requirements.  I know a lot do in order to recruit students so they're always looking for new high school students.

[slobone]

Professor income isn't always that high

That was true at one time. Today at major universities and colleges, anybody with tenure is making pretty respectable money.

[oceansoul]

Greetings.

I'm a really lucky person, because I found the best teacher in the world (yes he is).
I'm paying less than his other students, because he knows I can't afford it. But I just found this out a week ago. lol

And also... I'm trying to get into the school he teaches in officially, but it is starting to look impossible. He said to me something beautiful. "If you can't enter the school, I'll teach you all the subjects, we'll have more time per week, and you won't have to pay anything more. You have a talent that shouldn't be wasted, just because you're older than usual."

I'm 18, and here in Portugal, we aren't accepted anymore with this age. I'll fail in Music Theory, but I'm pretty advanced at piano (for someone who started to have lessons in September). I'm like in the 4th grade of piano, which is rather good. In the ABRSM, they don't need to know as much as we have to, in this grade. No more than a different system. What is really bad, is that I'll have to enter the 5th grade of Music Theory. Which means "FAIL".

Best regards,
          OceanSoul.